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  #1  
Old 04-02-2014, 04:58 PM
emore emore is offline
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Heard back from Baer on Trigger

Some of you had chimed in on the trigger trouble I am having (slightly heavy with a dash of creep) and I decided to email Baer to see what their position was. They told me that the triggers are set a little over 4 lbs because they will wear in some with use. They suggested that I get the 500 rounds through it and reassess. I had only 50 rounds behind me when I wrote them. I did another 250 today and I just checked the trigger with the gauge. It still reads anywhere from 4-9 to 4-13, and I can still detect a small amount of creep at the very beginning of the travel. Like I mentioned to the gentleman from Alchemy, regarding the gauge, I don't expect it to be accurate but it is a method of comparing one gun to another or the same trigger at different points in its lifespan. I still have trouble believing that I was lucky enough to get a stock Remington with a three and a half pound trigger, hence my doubt of the trigger gauge.
As far as having it worked on, I think I would probably want to send it to Baer, at least for the first try. I just don't know any local 'smiths' reputations very well and we've all heard the stories of getting the gun back with an idiot scratch, etc. Open to suggestions, however. I'm in the upstate of SC around Greenville if anyone happens to know a superlative 'smith within driving distance.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:47 PM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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Dry fire it a couple hundred more times. Seriously. It won't need to go back to Baer.

I'm assuming you don't know how to adjust your sear spring, so I won't ask you to do something you're not comfortable with....but after a couple hundred more rounds, a small tweak of the sear spring is likely all that is needed if anything. And any reputable gunsmith can do that in seconds - you still don't need to send it to Baer.




Last edited by shane45-1911; 04-02-2014 at 05:49 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2014, 06:20 PM
DevilDave1911 DevilDave1911 is offline
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You say "creep at the very beginning of the travel". Are you talking creep or pre travel?
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2014, 06:36 PM
Live2Ride Live2Ride is offline
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Originally Posted by emore View Post
Some of you had chimed in on the trigger trouble I am having (slightly heavy with a dash of creep) and I decided to email Baer to see what their position was. They told me that the triggers are set a little over 4 lbs because they will wear in some with use. They suggested that I get the 500 rounds through it and reassess. I had only 50 rounds behind me when I wrote them. I did another 250 today and I just checked the trigger with the gauge. It still reads anywhere from 4-9 to 4-13, and I can still detect a small amount of creep at the very beginning of the travel. Like I mentioned to the gentleman from Alchemy, regarding the gauge, I don't expect it to be accurate but it is a method of comparing one gun to another or the same trigger at different points in its lifespan. I still have trouble believing that I was lucky enough to get a stock Remington with a three and a half pound trigger, hence my doubt of the trigger gauge.
As far as having it worked on, I think I would probably want to send it to Baer, at least for the first try. I just don't know any local 'smiths' reputations very well and we've all heard the stories of getting the gun back with an idiot scratch, etc. Open to suggestions, however. I'm in the upstate of SC around Greenville if anyone happens to know a superlative 'smith within driving distance.
I live in the same area, and I don't know of any gunsmiths that I'd want working on a really nice gun. I've sent guns to Alchemy Custom for work. One good thing about them is that Rob and Jim both worked for Les Baer. So they're quite familiar with guns like yours and would be able to get you squared away. I've not been disappointed with any work they've done. The only gunsmith I've used in the Greenville area is the one at Allen Arms. He did some trigger work and adjusted the extractor on a Kimber I had that was nothing but trouble. After the work, the gun ran fine. Even with a positive experience with him, I wouldn't bring him a real nice gun to work on.
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2014, 06:49 PM
emore emore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDave1911 View Post
You say "creep at the very beginning of the travel". Are you talking creep or pre travel?
Aha! My lack of familiarity with the terms is showing...

The "creep" that I'm trying to describe may not be called that at all. I just know what it feels like to me. After all of the non-spring tension travel is taken up, only sometimes there is a slight step, or maybe a shelf, in the travel. It's like it is making three separate operations. First the slack, then the little step, then the normal pull with the let-off at about 4 and 3/4 lbs. Sorry about the terminology gap and the fact that I don't know how to describe what I'm feeling any better. It's so slight that I would guess that most people wouldn't notice it. Being a bullseye shooter, maybe I'm a little more critical than some. Anyway, from my description, what would you say it should be called? I'm always willing to learn!
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:57 PM
emore emore is offline
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Originally Posted by Live2Ride View Post
I live in the same area, and I don't know of any gunsmiths that I'd want working on a really nice gun. I've sent guns to Alchemy Custom for work. One good thing about them is that Rob and Jim both worked for Les Baer. So they're quite familiar with guns like yours and would be able to get you squared away. I've not been disappointed with any work they've done. The only gunsmith I've used in the Greenville area is the one at Allen Arms. He did some trigger work and adjusted the extractor on a Kimber I had that was nothing but trouble. After the work, the gun ran fine. Even with a positive experience with him, I wouldn't bring him a real nice gun to work on.
I don't know how long ago you had your work done at Allen Arms, but they've had a gunsmith for awhile now named Larry. He has done me right on the little things I've taken to him and I'm sure he's a good 'smith. I guess what I'm actually looking for is someone that works on nothing but 1911s. I checked with Alchemy just a couple days ago about a sight install and they told me it would be two or three months before they even take in any new work. I appreciate them telling me that rather than saying to just send it in. I would hate to be without a new gun for that long for something so minor as a trigger adjustment. I have to think that Baer might be my best bet if I still need work after I finish the 500 rounds. ( 200 to go and no change yet )
Thanks.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:02 PM
Live2Ride Live2Ride is offline
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Originally Posted by emore View Post
I don't know how long ago you had your work done at Allen Arms, but they've had a gunsmith for awhile now named Larry. He has done me right on the little things I've taken to him and I'm sure he's a good 'smith. I guess what I'm actually looking for is someone that works on nothing but 1911s. I checked with Alchemy just a couple days ago about a sight install and they told me it would be two or three months before they even take in any new work. I appreciate them telling me that rather than saying to just send it in. I would hate to be without a new gun for that long for something so minor as a trigger adjustment. I have to think that Baer might be my best bet if I still need work after I finish the 500 rounds. ( 200 to go and no change yet )
Thanks.
The name Larry doesn't ring a bell, so I might have dealt with someone else there. I don't know of anyone in the general area that works only on 1911s. Allen Arms and PSA are really the only places that have more than just a handful of 1911s for sale. I don't even see many when I go to the range. I guess 1911s just aren't that popular in our area.
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2014, 07:15 PM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emore View Post
The "creep" that I'm trying to describe may not be called that at all. I just know what it feels like to me. After all of the non-spring tension travel is taken up, only sometimes there is a slight step, or maybe a shelf, in the travel. It's like it is making three separate operations. First the slack, then the little step, then the normal pull with the let-off at about 4 and 3/4 lbs.
Yes, that is creep. First is take-up, then creep is any perception of the sear dragging on the hammer after initial take up. It will get better after a few hundred more rounds, or dryfire.



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Old 04-02-2014, 07:28 PM
emore emore is offline
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Originally Posted by shane45-1911 View Post
Yes, that is creep. First is take-up, then creep is any perception of the sear dragging on the hammer after initial take up. It will get better after a few hundred more rounds, or dryfire.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was just looking over my "break-in" book. That is a first for me, but then, so is my Baer PII. I have 50 PMC 230 grain ball rounds done, 200 WWB and 50 of the BrassMax (maybe Tula? Made in Italy) done today. I'm planning to knock out the last 200, which will be WWB already loaded into the trunk, this weekend. I still have the slightly heavy let-off and the sometimes-only creep. I think what is happening to make the creep intermittent may be that I pull straight through it without giving it a chance to manifest itself. Just a theory, but watching the trigger from the side while dry-firing seems to back that up. A more refined trigger finger could probably isolate the creep every time. I have a bowling pin match tomorrow night, so at this stage, I guess I'll be using my stainless Remington R1 Enhanced with the 3 and 1/2 lb trigger. Can't wait to be able to use the Baer. Thanks again.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:38 PM
jfrey jfrey is offline
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emore, I know exactly what you are talking about. I had the same thing in the trigger on my BOSS. After 400 or so rounds through the gun I called Les and asked him about it. He told me "Shoot it another 700 rounds and it should be better". I didn't believe it so I called a very good 1911 pistol smith I know in Houston and after a 30 minute conversation with him, I sent him the gun to fix. Fix it he did. Three pound trigger breaks like glass and no more creep. This whole thing cost me 3 weeks and $75.00. I wasn't going to send it to Baer and wait no telling how long to get it back. I'm not bashing Baer at all but I'm told by several knowledgeable people that if a trigger has creep out of the box, it is going to creep all the time.

Hope you get your problem resolved.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:45 PM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by jfrey View Post
but I'm told by several knowledgeable people that if a trigger has creep out of the box, it is going to creep all the time.
That's not true at all.

Depending on the severity of the creepy feeling, the sear/hammer engagement surfaces will eventually seat together via normal wear. Assuming that one hammer hook isn't bearing excessively harder on the sear than the other, felt creep often does go away after a few hundred rounds.




Last edited by shane45-1911; 04-02-2014 at 08:52 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2014, 08:51 PM
willy1911 willy1911 is offline
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I just hit 1000 rounds with my Premier II, and unfortunately it is just like you have described. I plan on trying to do a little work on it myself. I don't have a ton of experience, but I have polished the sear and hammer on my Springfield Range Officer and the trigger is darn near perfect now. My Wilson trigger is absolute perfection. If I can get the Baer as good as the Springer I'll be happy. The funny thing is, like you said, the creep only happens about every 4th or 5th trigger pull. It would seem to me that if there is creep it would always be there, but it's just not.

Creep or no creep, the gun is just stupid accurate... so overall I'm stoked with it!
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:38 PM
emore emore is offline
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Willy, thanks for that info! It sucks that you had the problem but I'm glad it not just me. And the sporadic nature of it makes me wonder if I would be able to get it to repeat the behavior for a 'smith. In the email I got from Baer, they were very emphatic that I send the gun to them rather than anyone else. Since I would hope that would be a no-charge fix, I'm taking that as a good sign. I don't much care for the advice about shooting it a million more times. Heck, if I wanted a Kimber, I would have bought one, y'know? I get the stiff thing and it doesn't bother me, but I don't think you should have to shoot a gun an inordinate amount of times hoping that it will do a trigger job on itself.
I'm going to rap off another 200 rounds this weekend and call Baer and see where they stand on this one. If they don't want to bother with it, I guess I'll check out this smith I just heard about off of Whitehorse Road. I know that doesn't mean anything to you but it might to "Live2Ride."
Thanks again
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:00 PM
Mad220860 Mad220860 is offline
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Ive have the same thing going on with my UTC. Strange thing is the trigger was perfect until I hit around the 800 mark or so.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:10 AM
emore emore is offline
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jfrey, glad you got yours sorted out. I guess if I get the same "take 700 more rounds and call me in the morning" diagnosis, I might be looking elsewhere myself. I really hope that Baer does better than that in this case, but time will tell. Thanks for letting me know that it can be fixed, even if it has to be on my dime.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:14 PM
ouluckydogu ouluckydogu is offline
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I have a bowling pin match tomorrow night, so at this stage, I guess I'll be using my stainless Remington R1 Enhanced with the 3 and 1/2 lb trigger. Can't wait to be able to use the Baer.

I would shoot the Baer at the pins. I would think that with the fast action and adrenalin pumping you would not even notice the creep.

Lucky
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:14 PM
emore emore is offline
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I would shoot the Baer at the pins. I would think that with the fast action and adrenalin pumping you would not even notice the creep.

Lucky[/QUOTE]

Should have listened to you, Lucky! I might have placed better than 2nd if I had. Oh well, maybe I'll have it back from Baer before the next match a month from now.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:10 PM
jfrey jfrey is offline
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emore, I hope you get the problem ironed out soon. Shane 45 is wrong about the creep going away when the parts mate together. My sear looked like it had been cut with a wood rasp and the hammer hooks were very rough. They would have never smoothed out to my satisfaction. A polish by a good smith is the only way to really get it done right. When I got mine back from Claudio it was exactly the way I wanted it and the way a gun in that price range should have been in the first place. I don't claim to be a 1911 gunsmith but I've worked on enough Glocks to know that polishing the right parts will cure a lot of evils and is cheaper than 1000 round of ammunition.
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:14 PM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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Shane 45 is wrong about the creep going away when the parts mate together. My sear looked like it had been cut with a wood rasp and the hammer hooks were very rough.
We'll let Les tell him he's wrong then.

I'm not saying this pistol may not have a problem. But as I said, unless your sear or hammer angles are cut wrong, a moderate amount of creep will absolutely go away as the parts seat together.

There's a difference between a BAD TRIGGER JOB, and CREEP. In fact, some 'smiths actually leave a bit of creep in a trigger job, as it prolongs the optimal contact between hammer and sear. A 90% trigger job will last a lot longer and feel better over a longer period of time, than a trigger job that is done 100% at the start. And Baer doesn't typically do bad trigger jobs. I've seen enough Baers to know that his hammer and sears don't look like they've "cut with a wood rasp". However, polishing the sear nose or the hammer hooks won't make a BIT of difference if the angles are cut wrong and/or one hammer hook is putting more pressure on the sear, than the other. But of course, the quote below assures me you know what you're talking about. Polish on....

Quote:
I don't claim to be a 1911 gunsmith but I've worked on enough Glocks to know that polishing the right parts will cure a lot of evils
Wow. You sure sound like an expert on 1911 triggers then, to tell me I'M wrong....... LMAO....Do you even know what a sear looks like? Sounds like you've done about ZERO trigger jobs on a 1911, I'm guessing?




Last edited by shane45-1911; 04-04-2014 at 03:56 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2014, 09:22 AM
AlMargheim AlMargheim is offline
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Same problem, Les fixed it after 800 rounds, cost me shipping

My Premier II had the same trigger problem. The trigger had noticeable (quite distracting) creep and the pull weight was too heavy (about 4.5 lbs). That wasn't the only problem with the gun, either. The barrel link was too long and the gun wouldn't go into battery reliably.

I shipped the gun back to Les in late January after shooting 800 rounds and it came back after about a week. The trigger is very nice now and the gun is reliable.

I agree with those who say it should have never left the Les Baer shop with a trigger like that. A trigger should be good out of the box. And, I darn sure shouldn't have to pay return shipping ($65) to fix a defective trigger pull and unreliable operation on a $2000 gun.

I won't buy another gun from Les Baer.
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