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Old 04-20-2012, 10:54 AM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,475
I need single stack reload help

Alright... I picked up SS again after shooting limited (getting ready for SSN).

Shooting my limited gun and then my SS has really showed me where I am wasting time during the reload.

Here is what I have determined.

After I shoot.. transitioning into the reload, my weak hand goes down to my belt.

At the same time, I rotate my hand around the grip to get the mag release button(Ed Brown extended).. in order to do this I short of need to twist my gun in my hand. When I do this, I do not have a good grip on the gun, so as a result, I have to regrip my gun by twisting it again, the way I do it cause the magwell to flip to the right, and the back to the left.

While the above happens, my weak hand is already up and waiting to put the mag in... I get the mag in(once the BS with my strong hand is done) and then project back on target... If I don't fumble the reload I an typically get a reload in 1.4-1.5 seconds... which in my opinion is horribly slow.

Obviously the stuff in bold is a terrible waste of time. I am trying to determine why it is that I twist my single stack gun, but I do not do this with my limited gun(I basically do a slower version of the youtube video by Travis)

I know that I do my reloads at eye level, and I know that I am bringing the gun in closer while doing it.

Could it have to do with not using thin grips? And I have to roll my hand around them to hit the mag release?

I just watched want2race's video of how his gun has almost no movement when hitting the mag release button.... which allows the gun to be ready for the reload mag as soon as it gets there.

Usually it doesn't hurt too much time because I plan reloads on the move, but sometimes when the movement is very short the reload wastes time... and worse is during reloads while standing (whether it be per the course description or accidental slide lock)


I found this video... IN section 2011, watch the first reload, don't pay attention to me missing the magwell, but rather my hands and how much movement I do with the gun before inserting the new mag. This is what I am talking about.

Any tips would be great.



Last edited by mikeg1005; 04-20-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:38 PM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 6,322

How you reload your single stack is dependent on your hand size, the type of magwell you use (I like a full circle magwell) and the thickness of the grips.
The way you measure your reload speed may be different from others. As a base line, I always tried to conduct a shot, reload, and shot at a 7-10 yd target, then reviewed the elapsed time to the second shot.

I looked at your videos, and at one time it looked like you may have had a problem with a magazine not falling easily out of the frame, so you would move the gun to the right and away from body....this was mainly as you were moving to a new target position. I did not see any standing reloads, so I mostly saw your reloads (which looked fine) as you were running and gunning.

I found that my reloads for my Open gun were always faster than any other gun division. For the Open div., I carried a mag just below my navel on the belt in a roughly 30 degree cant, so my hand would drop straight down and back up to reload. Since you have to place the spare mags laterally on your belt for SS, it makes sense it may take a few tenths longer to reach the mag which is slightly further away for grabbing and returning.

I found that for a standing reload, as soon as the gun was fired, my weak hand was reaching for my mag, often to the point that it almost felt I fired my last round before the reload like a strong hand only grip.....my hand was moving toward the reload while my strong hand rode and controlled the recoil. I would also have to rotate the gun in my hand for my thumb to reach the mag catch, but I usually made sure the mag dropped before I canted the gun to insert the fresh mag. When I was doing everything correctly, the mag was just clearing the gun and falling when the new mag was being rammed into the magwell opening. One thing I always trained myself to do on a standing reload, was as my weak hand was going for the fresh mag, I was using my peripheral vision to line up the gun in the center of the next target to be engaged, so when the reload was completed, I simply had to turn the gun which was already in the center of the target, and regain the sights while pressing the trigger. Basically, on a standing reload, you transition the empty gun to the next target while you conduct the reload, thereby eliminating wasted trasition time.

I know that a one second reload fired at a 10 yd. target with an A hit with my Open gun was good for me, and it averaged anywhere from 1.0 to 1.25.
I never shot SS, but considering the smaller magwell opening, and the greater distance to reach , grab, and return the mag, I would say a 1.4 reload is not bad at all.

Last edited by richpetrone; 04-20-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:41 PM
waktasz waktasz is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,419
Look how much Rob Leathan and Todd Jarrett move the gun around to get to the mag button. I think you can do just fine as long as whatever you technique is is repeatable and consistent.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:43 PM
2MoreChains 2MoreChains is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 2,839
I think you've kind of already answered your own question with wondering why you do the right flip thing in the first place.

If it is to clear a mag that didn't drop free, tune the mag so it drops free. I'm prepping for Area 1 right now, so have been concentrating on shooting SSTK again after shooting Limited for a while. Trying to hit that skinny hole with a skinny mag is different for sure.

I have to break my initial grip to hit the mag release, so I do it. I did enlarge the thumb cut-out on the grip which helps somewhat, but bottom line is my grip still has to shift. So once the mag drops, I bring the gun up to my face and cant the magwell opening toward me. I painted a dot on the magwell lip as an indicator that if I can see the dot then the gun is positioned correctly. While I'm doing all that, support hand is reaching for the mag, then up it comes and into the gun. Then re-eastblish my two-hand grip while pushing out, and reacquire the sights.

Probably real similar to what you and everyone else does. But what I don't do is the flippy thing to the right. I've seen others do it, and my best guess as to why they were doing that was to use some inertia to flick the mag out of the gun instead of letting it drop free.

One of the Matt Burkett videos talks about bringing up the mag super-fast, but then doing a micro pause when the mag is at the opening of the gun. The micro-pause is intended to make sure everything was lined up before you shoved it home.

The other thing I found out last night (when doing some blind-folded reloads) is to keep my head up. If I was trying to reload with my head down, for some reason I would fumble a reload now and then. But if I kept my head up, my reloads were much smoother and consistent. I haven't timed them, but smooth is fast, right?
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:00 PM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,475
Ya I did have the occasional stuck mag... which seems to have been solved by having Wilson replace them... sometimes the lips get tweeked open and I need to squeeze them closed a little to get them to fall out right.

I do believe thought that I developed that slight flip becuase of this, the flip would fling the mag out, but at the same time waste time.

So it seems like everyone also has to move their strong hand grip, then reestablish it, I'm just flipping the mag(while restablishing it) which is costing me time... I know that when I project out on target, I am only establishing my weak hand grip... the strong hand got put back in during the flick.


Last edited by mikeg1005; 04-20-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:06 PM
2MoreChains 2MoreChains is offline
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Location: Nampa, Idaho
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Just noticed your sig. My wife and I lost our 8 yr old French Bulldog on Monday. My condolenses.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:20 PM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,475
Originally Posted by 2MoreChains View Post
Just noticed your sig. My wife and I lost our 8 yr old French Bulldog on Monday. My condolenses.
Ya, he got hit by a car... 3 year old chocolate lab... hardest part is not having a 75lb bundle of energy and happiness bouncing around trying to say hello when you get off work.

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Old 04-23-2012, 07:40 PM
sevenL4 sevenL4 is online now
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: southern Oregon
Posts: 2,519
There's no 'flip' in Ipsick. Sorry, couldn't resist. You are wasting motion by elevating the muzzle on mag change. It goes up and then comes down. Time wasted. It also does not make use of the pistol design when you move it past the magazine vertical position. Pull the gun toward your body as you twist your grip and punch the button. Let the mag eject. Stronger springs might help a bit. Smooth the exterior of the mags and interior of the grip frame. Get your mags clean with hot soapy water. Blow dry them and wax them with a good automotive paste wax. Hope I helped.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Tenringx2 Tenringx2 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,287
I am taking 6 new mags in to Robar shortly for NP3 treatment, in preparation for L-10 Nationals in October, NP3 is super slick stuff.
"Shooter are you ready"....."Standby"......
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