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  #1  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:28 PM
Heyyou Heyyou is offline
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Sorry, but it has to be said.

I've been getting back into 1911's the past couple years. I'm a mechanic by trade, and catch onto mechanical stuff decently well. I read this forum voraciously. Well, now I do. I wish I had BEFORE I started spending money on 1911's. I'm not counting the couple I had 20 years ago. Strictly my current exposure, which let me to what I'm going to say.

My first recent / decent 1911 (style) gun is a Springfield EMP4.

My most recent purchase (caused by this forum) is a DW Valor Commander.

Now in the general realm of gun owners, everyone knows Springfield, and their 1911's have a very good reputation amongst owners. But I have to say, IMO, and in what I now know, I will never buy another Springfield 1911 when I can, for about the same money, but a much nicer DW 1911.

I'm not looking at this from a cosmetic approach either. Strictly build quality. attention to proper fitting. Case in point... My first EMP4, the ejector came loose in under 200 rounds and locked up the gun. My second one, which I still have, was really innaccurate. After studying and learning here, I changed the link from a #3 to a #2, and the gun shoots much more accurately. The difference, IMO, is that Springfield may have decent parts, but it gets lost on assembly. DW has very good parts... but they seem to spend the time on assembly to make the parts work they way they are "supposed" to.

Now that DW has the Vigil line, I myself would tell anyone wanting an entry level / first 1911 to ONLY look at the Vigils. I don't own a Vigil, but I've has 2 DW's and they are a magnitude better that what everyone "thinks" is a good 1911.

I'm not any company's fanboy. I like value when I spend my money. In this case, it's DW, with no conversation otherwise.

Sorry, but it had to be said.
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:44 PM
StrangerDanger StrangerDanger is offline
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Sorry, but it has to be said.

Thanks for the feedback from your purchases. I completely understand where you are coming from. I have 2 range officers I shoot in competition and I have spent a good deal of time and money making them like I want. Go buy a colt and give us more feedback!
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  #3  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:51 PM
JBnTX JBnTX is online now
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Yep, just buy a Colt and be done with it.
All I hear is badmouthing about Colt and most of it is pure BS.

The last two Range Officers I bought are the reason I'll never buy anything
from Springfield Armory again.

I've looked at Dan Wesson and I'm not impressed.
Same thing with those over hyped Les Baers.

I'll stick with my Colt 1911s.

Sorry, but that had to be said........
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  #4  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:58 PM
skidemn skidemn is offline
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Are you really comparing an $1100 gun to a $1700 gun, as if they are the same? Thatís like comparing a Toyota Camry and a Mercedes C class and being disappointed because the Mercedes is put together with better parts.


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  #5  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:30 PM
Heyyou Heyyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidemn View Post
Are you really comparing an $1100 gun to a $1700 gun, as if they are the same? That’s like comparing a Toyota Camry and a Mercedes C class and being disappointed because the Mercedes is put together with better parts.


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No, not at all. They are within 150.00 of each other. And I'm not comparing internal parts, either, as far as mim or tool steel. In fact my EMP4 now has all of John Harrison's fire control components in it. But the new vigils can be had for 1100.00, and EMP4's for 950.00 or so. springfield has a couple other models in the 11-1400 price range, and still with MIM and no attention to assembly. That, to me, makes them price competitive, but not quality competitive with the DW's.

Last edited by Heyyou; 10-29-2018 at 10:35 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:39 PM
skidemn skidemn is offline
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Sorry, but it has to be said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyyou View Post
No, not at all. They are within 150.00 of each other. And I'm not comparing internal parts, either, as far as mim or tool steel. In fact my EMP4 now has all of John Harrison's fire control components in it. But the new vigils can be had for 1100.00, and EMP4's for 950.00 or so. springfield has a couple other models in the 11-1400 price range, and still with MIM and no attention to assembly. That, to me, makes them price competitive, but not quality competitive with the DW's.

You didnít compare the vigil, you compared your commander. Iím not certain how you could compare the vigil since you said you donít have one and donít have the same experience with it. To assume it is the same as the valor for comparison purposes would be like me saying you should compare the Springfield Custom Carry to the Valor, but that wouldnít be entirely fair either. The EMP4 is $1177 while the Valor Commander is $1701. Big difference!






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Last edited by skidemn; 10-29-2018 at 10:44 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:45 AM
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Faawrenchbender Faawrenchbender is offline
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Ya can’t realistically use MSRP pricing as a comparison.
Unless the buyer is a fool, pistols never sell for MSRP.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:03 AM
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Wilsonedbrown Wilsonedbrown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Yep, just buy a Colt and be done with it.
All I hear is badmouthing about Colt and most of it is pure BS.

The last two Range Officers I bought are the reason I'll never buy anything
from Springfield Armory again.

I've looked at Dan Wesson and I'm not impressed.
Same thing with those over hyped Les Baers.

I'll stick with my Colt 1911s.

Sorry, but that had to be said........
So your impressed by a Colt but not a DW or LB? Are you vision impaired? Or just blinded by history of a once great company? Because if you think a factory colt is a better gun then either or even equal something is wrong with you!
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:21 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
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I don't have any DW guns, but I have two Springfield 1911s and a Rock Island. I've also had a Springfield M1A, which I ended up getting rid off due to a problem Springfield wouldn't fix. I fully concur with the OP's statements re the Springfield.

Last edited by Sailormilan2; 10-30-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:38 AM
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Faawrenchbender Faawrenchbender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilsonedbrown View Post
So your impressed by a Colt but not a DW or LB? Are you vision impaired? Or just blinded by history of a once great company? Because if you think a factory colt is a better gun then either or even equal something is wrong with you!
Im not much of a DW fan, but they are certainly better than what Colt is putting out today
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:51 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyyou View Post
.....
Sorry, but it had to be said.
No....not really......
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2018, 08:03 AM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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I feel much the same. After my VBob I dont see the need or point in purchasing lesser production guns.

Then again, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of my perfectly servicable cheaper RIA, Kimber, and Remington 1911s.

But all my future purchases will be DW, or possibly STI.
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2018, 08:21 AM
havanajim havanajim is offline
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Good grief, here we go again!

No, it really didn't have to be said. Unless, of course, the goal was to rehash the same nonsensical comparison talk we've muddled through for the previous 1275 times. If that's the case, then..... no, it definitely didn't have to be said!!
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2018, 08:45 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Four opinions:

DW builds very good 1911s, using very good parts. In their approximate price range, they have excellent customer satisfaction. If one desires machined-from-barstock small parts, DW is probably the lowest cost builder that can accommodate that preference. (I'm not knocking the alternatives to machined-from-barstock; instead, I'm merely recognizing that if a given buyer feels a certain way, then surely that's his right for his own acquisitions).

There is a correlation between cost and build quality. Maybe not a perfect, straight-line correlation, but when one is willing to pay more (and do it with a bit of common sense), he will find a better built 1911 at each successive price level. (Beyond $6,000 it could be argued that one is mostly paying for customization and one-of-kind builds)

For those who are satisfied with a gun that goes "bang", pretty much any manufacturer represented on this Forum (with a sub-section), as well as a number of others, will suffice. A $600 1911 can quickly put a big hurt on a BG. Nothing wrong with folks having this type of mindset, especially if they're wise enough to put the gun and their ammo through sufficient testing on the range, before deploying it in SD capacity.

If one feels a connection to a specific manufacturer, for whatever reason(s), that is good for him and that manufacturer. But expecting everyone else to have the same sentiments, the same cost/value/quality perceptions, to salute in agreement, that that specific manufacturer is the singular Holy Grail of 1911s, etc., might border on the narcissistic ... or not so knowledgeable... etc.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 10-30-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2018, 09:24 AM
Bluesboy Bluesboy is offline
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I must be missing something, or just lucky, but I've had 3 (used) Springer 1911's pass through my hands (one still here), and the fit, finish, accuracy, and reliability on all of them has been fantastic.(though,admitedly, this last one isn't quite as perfect, but it still chews through everything I've fed it. And the killer trade deal I got on it makes up for it).
I don't dispute that the nicer pistols are....'nicer', but in my experience, Springfield offers a lot of bang for the buck,especially from the used market.

Last edited by Bluesboy; 10-30-2018 at 09:27 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2018, 09:37 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Yep, just buy a Colt and be done with it.
All I hear is badmouthing about Colt and most of it is pure BS.

The last two Range Officers I bought are the reason I'll never buy anything
from Springfield Armory again.

I've looked at Dan Wesson and I'm not impressed.
Same thing with those over hyped Les Baers.

I'll stick with my Colt 1911s.

Sorry, but that had to be said........
M'kay.........
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2018, 09:41 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
M'kay.........
I confess I first had to look this up in Urban Dictionary.

+1911 Striker.
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2018, 10:07 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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chrysanthemum - Well said
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2018, 10:16 AM
bmur66 bmur66 is offline
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Cheap is only cheaper the first time you buy it. You don't always get what you pay for but you always pay for what you get. I could go on all day. I know what my next 1911 will be and it won't be a mass produced gun.
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  #20  
Old 10-30-2018, 10:55 AM
Dddrees Dddrees is offline
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Personally I only have one 1911 at this point and I am far from being an expert. But when I chose my Dan Wesson Valor I did so based on a couple of factors. Cost was a consideration or I probably would have purchased something more costly but so was fit and finish and parts used. Based on the research I conducted and the forums I checked most users stated that a Dan Wesson was the best non-custom production gun your money could buy so I choose a Dan Wesson.


At this point for what my priorities where when I purchased that gun I am still convinced I made the right choice. I would certainly hope that the additional money I spent above those that cost less made a difference and it did for me. So far no one has been able to convince me otherwise. So I certainly would have no problem either recommending or buying another Dan Wesson. Money well spent in my opinion. A gun that cost less may still go bang and hit the target but often that's not the only thing people are looking for. If not more would be buying Hi Points.

Last edited by Dddrees; 10-30-2018 at 11:45 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:32 AM
Snapping Twig Snapping Twig is online now
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Add me to the list of DW shooters.

I had a high end full size Kimber, bought it new. Didn't work out. Chamber too tight, FTRB every 80 rounds +/-.

Other issues too.

Sold it with full disclosure, bought a DW CBOB for the exact money I sold the Kimber for.

Best trade/deal I ever made. Two completely different 1911s. The quality and attention to detail and assembly were worlds apart.

I also have a 1966 Colt NM, which is a far better pistol than the current crop IMO.
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  #22  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:36 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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I'm very happy with my ruger lw commander. Does it have a lot of mim? Probably but I have heart issues so I'm sure it will outlast me.

Wilson or Brown Ford or Chevy chocolate or vanilla who cares. Buy what you like and go shoot the thing.

Only 2 things matter. 1 get your ass out and vote and 2 have fun.
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:54 AM
AZ Desertrat AZ Desertrat is offline
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Don't own any Springfields, but I do own several of each Colts and DW's. For out of the box quality in every aspect, you can not beat a DW.
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  #24  
Old 10-30-2018, 12:33 PM
pyunker45 pyunker45 is offline
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One thing I learned on this forum over the years is if one spends a ridiculous amount of money on a 1911, someone will always tell you....oh, you should have spent more and gotten a better 1911.

Say...

What's the best, and I mean the BEST lube?
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  #25  
Old 10-30-2018, 12:43 PM
ozarkmac ozarkmac is offline
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Don't own a DW but have had no issues with my older Springfields or modern Colts (Don't have any older models to make a comparison). I'm sure the reputation and actual quality of a DW is great but for a non-competitive shooter like myself, the price of a DW is not worth it.

Having said that, If I had not just recently recovered from my gun addiction (just got my one year chip) and had money to spare, I would probably buy one anyway.

Not intended to condemn anyone, this is just my perspective. Over the years I've seen pride override practical use when it comes to manufacturer choice. Get's played out in the gun forums quite frequently.

BTW, if you want to break your gun addiction, stop reading the gun forums and being encouraged to buy guns and praised every time you do so. At some point you'll be able to come back to the gun forums and enjoy yourself without giving into temptation.

That's where I am. Life is good! Happy shooting, owning, collecting, etc.
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