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  #51  
Old 01-17-2019, 12:02 AM
2011RK 2011RK is offline
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Just because he had a badge and a pistol, doesn't indicate he was intelligent.
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  #52  
Old 01-17-2019, 03:18 PM
The_AVB The_AVB is offline
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Not that you need my input but I see 3 things wrong. As mentioned, shot placement. Probably bullet type as a JHP or FMJ made for a 200lb man isn't going to work as well in a 700-1000lb animal and the load of the round. 200gr hard cast Buffalo Bore would certainly have done a better job but that isn't something you want as your carry round against people. Baring 45 super ammo (which I have never seen on the shelf for sale) a 10mm is about as stout as you'll get in a 1911 frame or the popular plastic guns.
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  #53  
Old 01-17-2019, 06:26 PM
LeonardS LeonardS is offline
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On a cow, you imagine an X on the square part of their forehead. The center of the X is where you shoot. Any farmer/rancher/rural resident, is familiar with this bullet placement if you've ever butchered a cow.
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  #54  
Old 01-17-2019, 08:22 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Not far from where I live there is a small slaughterhouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonardS View Post
On a cow, you imagine an X on the square part of their forehead. The center of the X is where you shoot. Any farmer/rancher/rural resident, is familiar with this bullet placement if you've ever butchered a cow.
They use .22 long rifle to put the cattle down. Interestingly enough back during the .22 rimfire drought, they had issues. They only could trust Aguila Extra to have enough power to get the job done 100% of the time.

Last edited by USMM guy; 01-18-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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  #55  
Old 01-18-2019, 06:55 AM
win3030 win3030 is offline
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I had two 7 month old steers that were new to me break out and go rogue for 5 months before I found them and shot them. One of them ended up in my neighbors dairy barn....it wasn't exactly a fair fight, but after 5 months of stalking, I didn't want to let him out. This was the .308 I pulled from his upper neck when I was cutting him up. It traveled about 18" from the point of impact in his head.

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  #56  
Old 01-18-2019, 02:47 PM
Razorback10mm Razorback10mm is offline
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I've seen a deer shot with a 30-06 go 200 yards and a deer shot with a 10mm drop where hit , go figure !
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  #57  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:34 PM
INV136 INV136 is offline
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Those of us that EDC a handgun do so with the objective of it stopping the murderous activities of the two legged variety. I feel confident in my Underwood Xtreme Penetrator 10mm rounds (140gr 1,500 fps/700 ft lbs) having more people stopping power than any 9mm, .40, .45 ACP or .357 magnum.

That said, the majority of hand gun rounds used for EDC are not meant for stopping a bear, cow, or other large animal. It's stupid to compare a large animal like a 500 lb cow to a 200 lb human as far as pistol stopping power. They're not designed for that. I doubt that if the ignorant cop in your incident was carrying a .44 magnum, that the outcome would have been much different.
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  #58  
Old 01-20-2019, 05:09 PM
LimaCharlie LimaCharlie is offline
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The 10mm is not a magic bullet with .41 magnum power. The ballistics of the 10mm overlaps the ballistics of the .357 magnum. Both top out around 800 foot/pounds of muzzle energy from a six inch test barrel. The 10mm has slightly more momentum due to slightly heavier bullets. I would have expected a 10mm or .357 magnum in that cop's hands would have resulted in the same outcome.
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  #59  
Old 01-20-2019, 05:34 PM
JMJ1015 JMJ1015 is offline
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It is sad that the animal suffered more because of the incompetence of the officer. I agree with those that say it wasn't the fault of the caliber it was the shot placement. Every deer I have killed was shot with a .30-06. I used Remington Core-Lokt ammunition with 180 grain bullet. I have had result that varied from dead right there to the running 25-30 yards before they kick out. Much depends on where you shoot the animal. It also matters if it is standing broadside, quartered towards or away from you, etc. With any creature it takes something a while to die from a cardio vascular hit. Simply put it takes a bit for them to bleed out. A Central Nervous System hit means immediate incapacitation. If the guy had just shot it in the back of the head it would have been over with a quickness.
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  #60  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:43 PM
Patrick Kelly Patrick Kelly is offline
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In over a quarter century of law enforcement work I lost track of the animals I put down, ranging from deer to bison. Every single one was put down with one pistol shot to the head, at ranges from point blank to twenty five yards. Not a single one ever needed a second round. Rounds used were the common service calibers: .357 mag., .45acp, .40 S&W and 9mm.

The 10mm is more than sufficient if the dingus on the trigger can shoot.
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  #61  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:50 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INV136 View Post
Those of us that EDC a handgun do so with the objective of it stopping the murderous activities of the two legged variety. I feel confident in my Underwood Xtreme Penetrator 10mm rounds (140gr 1,500 fps/700 ft lbs) having more people stopping power than any 9mm, .40, .45 ACP or .357 magnum.

That said, the majority of hand gun rounds used for EDC are not meant for stopping a bear, cow, or other large animal. It's stupid to compare a large animal like a 500 lb cow to a 200 lb human as far as pistol stopping power. They're not designed for that. I doubt that if the ignorant cop in your incident was carrying a .44 magnum, that the outcome would have been much different.
Eh, a .45 [email protected] out does 10mm for both power and expansion.
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  #62  
Old 01-21-2019, 07:00 PM
Ed_Gordon Ed_Gordon is offline
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A full power .357 mag is better than a hot 10mm I think. 10mm has more capacity usually and up close it is close or same. I like both. For the porch i keep a .357 revolver around. For nightstand a 10mm chambered in 9x25 Dillon.
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  #63  
Old 01-22-2019, 09:44 PM
surjimmy surjimmy is offline
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100% shot placement, should have shot it in the head. I saw a video of an Elk being shot with a 10mm. 25-30 yard shot DRT the Elk. All that being said, the officer should have used the rifle.
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  #64  
Old 03-05-2019, 11:19 PM
FINALYBOUGHTAHOUSE FINALYBOUGHTAHOUSE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
I actually think the local cop made a very poor choice turning down a rifle for a handgun (even a 10mm)
The rifle is easier to shoot more accurately and has more energy than the 10mm

10mm..have nothing on a 30-30....Yes..they are good handgun rounds..note: handgun rounds....But a 30-30 carbine is superior.
30-30 if you are looking for quick easy shooting of a powerful round. Preferable to any hand gun round.

Almost double the muzlzle velocity
and almost double muzzle energy

Caliber: 30 Carbine
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1990 fps
Muzzle Energy: 967 ft lbs

vs.

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 180 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
Muzzle Energy: 529 ft lbs

TRKDRVR, just so you know, a 30-30 is not a 30 Carbine. A 30-30 is a 170 grain bullet at about 2100fps, factory loads will vary, maybe up to 150fps faster.

Also, on your comparison using 10mm Auto loads, a 527 ft-lb energy load is in the bottom 20 percent of factory ammo loads for a 10mm. I just bought a 10mm, and am using Sellier and Bellot's Ammo which is a 180 grain bullet around 1150fps or so, making 543 ft-lbs of energy, putting it in the bottom 25% in terms of power for factory 10mm ammo. Most of the 10mm ammo loads vary in power from 600 ft-lbs to 775 ft-lbs with an atypical bullet/load reaching 1015 ft-pounds using a very fast 77 gr bullet at 2400 fps. The link is below, listing 61 loads from various factory ammo producers:

http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php


A 30 Carbine is more energy than a 10mm, but remember penetration is what is required for large animals, and in a pistol you use the bullets designed for deep penetration on such animals, and you will get the desired results, combined with proper shot placement.

It seems as though the officer might have been using a weaker load, a bullet designed for people, not cows, and did not use the right shot placement. I would not give up on the 10mm because of that, because I know there have been either 4 or 5 recorded events where bears (black and brown) have charged a guy with a 10mm and they stopped the bear with less than 5 shots. Bullet selection, shot placement, and good power load relative to the cartridge seem to be the recipe to not getting mauled.
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