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  #26  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:32 PM
Red-5 Red-5 is offline
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Sounds more like you are pissed he didn’t use your rifle instead of his handgun.

As has been pointed out by many in here, a well placed shot from the handgun would have put the cow out of its misery.

Didn’t need a 30-30 to do the job. The 10mm was more than needed to do it. Barney Fife was the problem, not the tool.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:42 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 191159 View Post
Funny. I was asking specifically. All those people standing around, crying, upset.

No news, no cell phone YouTube productions?

HaHaaa...You aint from round here are ya..

The newscrews?..local news station is 2hrs from here
and i doubt they are coming out to my county road traffic jam

Plenty of cell phones and someone prob did take pictures/videos..dont they always now?

Last edited by trckdrvr; 01-13-2019 at 04:45 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:04 PM
Houser Houser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
I actually think the local cop made a very poor choice turning down a rifle for a handgun (even a 10mm)
The rifle is easier to shoot more accurately and has more energy than the 10mm

10mm..have nothing on a 30-30....Yes..they are good handgun rounds..note: handgun rounds....But a 30-30 carbine is superior.
30-30 if you are looking for quick easy shooting of a powerful round. Preferable to any hand gun round.

Almost double the muzlzle velocity
and almost double muzzle energy

Caliber: 30 Carbine
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1990 fps
Muzzle Energy: 967 ft lbs

vs.

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 180 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
Muzzle Energy: 529 ft lbs
You may have confused the 30-30 cartridge ballistics common to many lever action rifles (and some handguns like the TC Contender ) with the less potent .30 Cal M1 Carbine round in the ballistics cited above.

Quote:
Caliber: 30 Carbine
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1990 fps
Muzzle Energy: 967 ft lbs


The venerable 30-30 round is significantly more powerful.

Caliber: 30-30 Winchester 150
Brand: Winchester Power-Point
Bullet Weight: 150 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 2390
Muzzle Energy: 1902

As for killing cows, there's not much magic to it, but any job can be botched I suppose, regardless of the tools used.

Just surprised that an audience residing 2 hours from a local news station would be so unfamiliar with how to more efficiently address such things as injured livestock.

My grandfather's old 1918 vintage S&W Regulation Police with its "anemic" 38 S&W cartridge is probably a more proven hog and cow killer than any firearm we are currently toting around simply due to its usefulness for such things back in the day when folks processed their own meat.

Caliber: .38 Smith & Wesson
Bullet Weight: 145 grain
Bullet Style: Lead Round Nose
Muzzle Velocity: 689 FPS
Muzzle Energy: 153 ft.-lbs.

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Last edited by Houser; 01-13-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:26 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houser View Post

Just surprised that an audience residing 2 hours from a local news station would be so unfamiliar with how to more efficiently address such things as injured livestock.
The audience (residing 2 hours from the news station) were not "unfamiliar"

Local law told everyone to "stand back" when he drew the Big 10..
Then proceeded to turn it into a sad comedy of poor performance by both him and his Big 10 pistol.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2019, 09:32 PM
Equin Equin is offline
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Did he make the body shot because the cow wouldn't let him get close enough to make a headshot? Also, shouldn't a headshot on a cow be to the back of the head to avoid a potential ricochet? I've shot wild pigs in the head, but I've always aimed at their ear, broadside, never to the front of the head for fear of a ricochet or having it just get stuck or lodged in the skull and not penetrating enough to kill. Anyway, I know little about cows. Have only milked and fed them one time in my life at my wife's family's ranch in Mexico. When her family killed a cow for butchering, they just used a curved knife to puncture the back of the head and it dropped immediately. Of course, the cow was oblivious to what was about to happen before that, and I suppose it was so used to humans feeding it that it didn't care to have the butcher lead it to the back of the ranch house and stand next to its head before dispatching it. Anyway, just asking about the headshot out of curiosity.
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  #31  
Old 01-13-2019, 09:49 PM
emptymag emptymag is offline
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I knew how the story was going to end when OP said...
"local COP arrives"!!!

Where is Sonny Crockett when we need him?!
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Last edited by emptymag; 01-13-2019 at 09:51 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:14 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Yes I would most assuredly suggest to anyone with half a brain.

To steer clear of 10 mm handguns.
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:48 PM
bowlegged bowlegged is offline
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Poor decision making regarding shot placement - obviously a green ignorant Rambo cop wanting to flex his wanna-be muscle. The 10mm is more than adequate to dispatch a cow, via head shot. You don't dispatch that large an animal (up to 1600 - 1800# or more) in the vital region - will take a looong time to die. Yes a .22 will work, but it's not optimal - I've seen them ricochet off, several times. Centerfire rifle is ideal, they're out before they hit the ground, if you know where to put it.
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:54 PM
557 557 is offline
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Yep, head shots only if you want a cow to drop. I would guess he had SD ammo and it wasn’t getting anywhere near a vital organ. He’s lucky he didn’t get stomped or a bunch of other people hurt. Most any cow has a limit to the pain it will tolerate before becoming violent.

You would think rural departments would have some training in scenarios like this.
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  #35  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:11 PM
bowlegged bowlegged is offline
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Quote:
He's lucky he didn't get stomped or a bunch of other people hurt. Most any cow has a limit to the pain it will tolerate before becoming violent.

This^^^^^^^
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:47 PM
557 557 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlegged View Post
Poor decision making regarding shot placement - obviously a green ignorant Rambo cop wanting to flex his wanna-be muscle. The 10mm is more than adequate to dispatch a cow, via head shot. You don't dispatch that large an animal (up to 1600 - 1800# or more) in the vital region - will take a looong time to die. Yes a .22 will work, but it's not optimal - I've seen them ricochet off, several times. Centerfire rifle is ideal, they're out before they hit the ground, if you know where to put it.
Worst fail I saw with .22 was a mature Hereford bull with a broken hip. Probably 2200#. Guy went out with a .22 rifle and 13 rounds. Came back and said the deed was done. A week later we were out rounding up that section and I come across the bull standing on a hill. Wifeís cousin lived close so went and got his 30.06. One and done.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:03 AM
Johnny handgun Johnny handgun is offline
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I’m curious about all this discussion of rounds, rifles, handguns, etc. for Gods sake people a damn car hit it and the cow was alive. What kind of car? How much did it weigh? How fast was it going? How was the impact placement. I bet the “energy” was much higher than any round available at the time yet the cow was up and about. Maybe they should have used a Buick, or a 1 ton truck at 70 mph. You know, vehicle placement is still critical no matter how much energy you hit it with. Penetration is also critical.
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:23 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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The Cop doesn't need to have a hunting background to be able to make the right choice. He should have a basic knowledge of which parts of the body lead to a higher probability of a quick stop/death in human's and should be able to use that to know his best chances are a head shot. And a basic knowledge of the relative ballistics of handgun-limitation's vs rifle. This is what makes his choice even more bizarre. He is lucky the cow after being wounded didn't trample bystanders. They should send this cop back to Cop-basic-training, maybe he will not sleep through it the second time.
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  #39  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:18 AM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-5 View Post
Sounds more like you are pissed he didnít use your rifle instead of his handgun.

As has been pointed out by many in here, a well placed shot from the handgun would have put the cow out of its misery.

Didnít need a 30-30 to do the job. The 10mm was more than needed to do it. Barney Fife was the problem, not the tool.
^^^This, coupled with his obvious disdain for the 10mm cartridge.
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  #40  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:37 AM
sevenL4 sevenL4 is offline
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When and where did this happen?
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  #41  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:06 PM
ejr10mm ejr10mm is offline
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I would think that a 12 gauge slug would be way more efficient. Any pd Ive worked at or orbserved had access to a 12 gauge and slugs.
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  #42  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:12 PM
CDW4ME CDW4ME is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
How is that impressive?

You shot 100lb animal in the heart and it ran 40 yards?..no wonder the 700lb animal ran off after being body shot..


That 10mm was NOT the tool for the job(in my opinion)
Poor shot placement and using a handgun/carry gun instead of a rifle were 2 of the mistakes he made.
You hunted deer much?
I've killed (not harvested) 30+ over two dozen were bow, few with rifle and one with a 10mm pistol.
40 yards is a short recovery.
I've blown a 1 1/4'' four blade broadhead completely through them (wicked hole) and had them run further.

A full power 10mm load should have at least 600# KE from a 5'' barrel.
Underwood offers loads hotter than my handloads, but one of these is what I shot the deer with.
10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221
10mm Handload Nosler 150 JHP @ 1,402 fps / 655# KE - recoil energy 9.4 - PF 210
10mm Handload Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,400 fps / 675# KE - recoil energy 9.6 - PF 217

The XTP had about 600# KE (calculation) remaining when it hit the deer at 18 yards from me.
A bullet that expands to about .65 made holes from larger than .95 (quarter) to 1 1/4''
Impressed? Yes, I was.



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  #43  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:55 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is offline
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Never choose a gun with a caliber bigger than your brain.
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  #44  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:25 PM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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10mm big deal . The guy had no idea how to use what he had properly .
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:57 PM
ncllaht ncllaht is offline
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10mm or not... i recall reading some years ago about testing of 45acp on bovine in slaughterhouse... point blank head shots to dispatch... even the 45acp was not 100% on penetration of the skull...
cannot remember if this was Col Cooper, or some doctor studying ballistics.
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2019, 02:38 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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I have four ten mm pistols right now.

The likelihood of getting four more anytime soon is pretty small.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2019, 03:41 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Eat More Chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
Then proceeded to turn it into a sad comedy of poor performance by both him and his Big 10 pistol.
I have no doubt that what you say is true. And the fact that a rifle was available and the LEO declined it, makes me hope that the he learned a cheap lesson on killing. It sounds like no one got hurt...except the cow. So that was good.

What I will say, is that no matter the cartridge, regardless the experience of a shooter, a living thing will never give you a certain 100% immediate kill. Flesh and bone can do some wierd things when hit with bullets. Angles matter and a moving animal the size of a cow is gonna be hard to drop in its tracks, especially if it starts to moves from you... and it sounds like in this case a running cow.

Too bad he didnít let you kill it with the rifle. The first shot is the most important one.
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2019, 04:11 PM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Independance View Post
I have NEVER seen a roadside animal engaged with a body shot...
This.

Christ when I was a kid still on the farm, my neighbors 14 year old daughter, Linda, was the one to do the dispatching when one of their cows made it out onto the main highway. The local trooper watched dumbfounded while she used a 30:30 lever action with a head shot.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2019, 05:33 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is offline
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It seems that some are disappointed to learn that the 10mm isn't magic.
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:41 PM
abraxas abraxas is offline
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The cop probably figured if a center mass shot is good for a criminal, it must be good for a cow. Frankly, I think a cruelty to an animal charge should be considered. Ignorance is no excuse, especially in a rural area.
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