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  #1  
Old 03-25-2018, 06:54 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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So, my wife, another lady and her two kids went to a protest. She returned deeply moved.

Whilst there she listened to four people who were at the school shootings in Florida. She recorded the speeches and I listened to them to. The protests were at the MN capital building.

My wife has always supported my gun hobby and she is not anti gun. But she is anti school shootings and that’s what these protests seemed to be about. There was even a former special forces guy who admitted to being an avid gun sports shooter who also spoke.

Sure, as with any “movement” there are extremes in any group. But this movement is getting LOTS of people energized who would normally not be the type of come out and also people who are more moderate gun owners and 2A supporters.

People are tired of this ****....I am tired of it too.

We need to start focusing on the multidimensional problem and not be so entrenched in 2A issues. We all know that congress could pass a law tomorrow that over turns the 2A and the next 10 shootings (maybe 100) will still continue.

Taking away assault rifles tomorrow will no more stop the next school shooting than passing a law that makes ****ty parents go to jail.

So my question is this....what is it as a gun owner you are willing to give up if the other side is willing to offer something in return or show some type of other action that you think might be affective?

For example, would you be willing to pay a moderate gun tax if it meant all tax money subsidized additionally Police at schools.

Imagine if the NRA started doing the same....

I keep telling people that the biggest risk we have to gun rights is the next school shooting and I continue to right every time.
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:07 AM
pbshooter1217 pbshooter1217 is offline
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Why should I give up something for something I didn’t do?
When there is “compromise,” gun owners give up something for nothing in return.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:12 AM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Schools can easily afford a top notch security program/force if they eliminate expensive sports programs , which only benefit a very select few over-privileged students.
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:20 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Living in NJ, I've given plenty, past, present and future.
More taxes? No !
I've given up plenty as far as 2A living here and do not see where anything these people are saying makes any sense or relevance to addressing or stopping the real cause of ILLEGAL GUN VIOLENCE.
Here in NJ, there hasn't been one of these school shootings, but yet the liberal anti gun crowd are licking their chops about piling on and restricting me further any way they can.
Since when should I listen to a bunch of women and teenagers who by no fault of mine are totally ignorant to the problem?
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:28 AM
wvfarrier wvfarrier is offline
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While i agree that it is a multi faceted problem, we as gun owners, shouldnt lose our rights because some wacko goes crazy. Everytime we "compromise", the antis go nuts and take and take. We spend the next decade trying to repair the damage. We dont see people screaming to take cell phones away when 11 kids die a day from texting and driving
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  #6  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:40 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Our community needs to be part of the solution. It is a very complex issue. However, the guns aren't the problem and it is appalling how the left has pounded this fallacy in the Student's heads. And we need to break the link btwn guns and the solution, therefore taxing guns to fund [email protected] is a bad idea, it will only re-enforce the fallacy that guns are the problem.

And although it is an emotional thing seeing kids get shot (so I am not surprised your wife was moved), and indeed we need to come together to find solutions, it is very important that we do not let the natural empathy and emotions infect the solution process. The emotions will likely lead you down the wrong path rather then the correct, the path which needs to be based on logic and reason.

The solution imo is in better background checks, arming teachers who qualify, eliminating school gun-free zones, better coordinated FBI-police investigation (of knows nut-jobs)/follow-through and response, and dealing effectively with mental health issues...Also, but secondary, the problems with video games that train mass shooter type behavior, and how Facebook is exacerbating crazy behavior, should be looked at (not saying make any changes yet, but look at these).

Of course The-Lefty will ignore all these, because it is all about "the gun" for them.

And the other problem is we have inept politicians trying to solve a very complex problem. They will not address the root-cause, they will just do what is politically expedient.
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Last edited by combat auto; 03-25-2018 at 07:57 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:41 AM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is offline
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I could agree to an assault weapons ban if the rest of America is willing to accept a ban on all cellular devices that can be operated while traveling more than 5 MPH. I know it can be done. All cell phones and tablets have GPS. The Qualcomm in my truck works that way, if I am going more than 5 mph all I can see on it is my DOT clock and the GPS Nav. Everything else is disabled.

Cell phone usage is now the leading cause of fatal traffic accidents which cause FAR more deaths than guns every year.
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:42 AM
capt_tast capt_tast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterDR View Post
So, my wife, another lady and her two kids went to a protest. She returned deeply moved.

Whilst there she listened to four people who were at the school shootings in Florida. She recorded the speeches and I listened to them to. The protests were at the MN capital building.

My wife has always supported my gun hobby and she is not anti gun. But she is anti school shootings and that’s what these protests seemed to be about. There was even a former special forces guy who admitted to being an avid gun sports shooter who also spoke.

Sure, as with any “movement” there are extremes in any group. But this movement is getting LOTS of people energized who would normally not be the type of come out and also people who are more moderate gun owners and 2A supporters.

People are tired of this ****....I am tired of it too.

We need to start focusing on the multidimensional problem and not be so entrenched in 2A issues. We all know that congress could pass a law tomorrow that over turns the 2A and the next 10 shootings (maybe 100) will still continue.

Taking away assault rifles tomorrow will no more stop the next school shooting than passing a law that makes ****ty parents go to jail.

So my question is this....what is it as a gun owner you are willing to give up if the other side is willing to offer something in return or show some type of other action that you think might be affective?

For example, would you be willing to pay a moderate gun tax if it meant all tax money subsidized additionally Police at schools.

Imagine if the NRA started doing the same....

I keep telling people that the biggest risk we have to gun rights is the next school shooting and I continue to right every time.
I am anti-school violence as well. I see it as a people issue, not necessarily a gun issue though. If we had to look deeper, I'm sure we could pinpoint lot's of factors that affect these people that do this. Lots of deep cultural issues that the culture doesn't want to address. I do agree that an entrenched position without compromise will result in nothing getting done, which means the school shootings will continue to happen. This will result in increased activism and the danger here is that a reactive legislature will do something really stupid down the road. I'm ok with banning all devices that artificially modify the firearm to shoot fully automatic or at a sustained rate over some arbitrary limit. So if it modifies the firearm to shoot at a nearly sustained rate of fire, I'm ok banning it. I'm also ok with raising the age to own a firearm to 21. I know they can serve in the military prior to that, but that's the beauty and incentive of joining the military. You get to shoot cool weapons, while in the military. (And I served in the military and carried a firearm every single day, and I enlisted at 18, straight outa high school)
Do I think that we can stop gun violence...No. Do I think that Gun restrictions will stop a motivated individual from procuring a firearm and commiting mayhem...No. Before, these were happening a lot less frequently, but as they've increased in frequency, the young people have now mobilized because congress and communities have failed to do anything. I think there are big changes coming. I don't think it will help anything, though. The harder it is to get guns, the more likely it is to having someone drive into a crowd of students. It's simply a matter of time. People are crazy. The mistake is thinking that taking the gun a way from them will somehow make them less motivated to kill people.
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:43 AM
Doug570 Doug570 is offline
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Education is the answer. Unfortunately with the bad press and liberals educating is almost beyond hope. Did any of the speakers your wife listen to mention the lack of preventive actions taken by the schools district, FBI or Sheriff's department? It is my understanding many phone calls were made warning of the Florida shooting and no one attempted to stop this kid. In todays world the liberals want to blame everyone and everything except the person responsible.
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:47 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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All the airheaded marches on earth won't compel stupid mothers (Sandy Hook) or foster parents ((Parkwood) to not be stupid. No marches or legislation will make cowards brave. Buying into your wife's irrational, emotional behavior is just weak and STUPID!!
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  #11  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:49 AM
drail drail is offline
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Congress can not pass a law tomorrow to overturn the 2A. Neither can the DOJ or the BATFE. The problem is that they and all the Socialists believe that they can. The British thought they could deprive us of all Natural Rights too. They were wrong. We do not live by the whims of the Govt. or the DNC or George Soros. You cannot "bargain" for your rights. This isn't a TV game show. Rights can not be "bought". And I did not swear an oath to the Constitution so some politician could sell me and my family down the river.

Last edited by drail; 03-25-2018 at 07:56 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:50 AM
passx passx is offline
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I’ll be willing to talk about it when the politicians learn to live within their means and quit taxing the pants off of me. Want to improve the school thing ?put trained & armed guards in each school, we had them when I was in school a very long time ago (50yrs) and there are lots of schools that are “locked down” when in session with bullet proof glass and such, but that doesn’t serve the anti gun purpose of some of these people. I can say with confidence that a large portion of these wealthy anti-gunners have their own armed guards. Hipocrites !

The people that do these types of crimes are pure cowards so they choose “soft” targets in an effort to do this with minimal risk to themselves. I say anyone that is caught planning or doing something like this should be taken directly to the nearest tree and publicly hung, let their carcass hang there until picked clean by the birds, bugs or whatever and then send what’s left to the public landfill, no grave or marker for the next crazy to visit. If the government would just correctly enforce what’s already on the books a lot of these nut jobs would be SOL.

Where were the protests when the Boston marathon bombing happened ? How about the protests when some extremist ran a truck or car through a group of pedestrians, ban cars, trucks, knives, axe’s, ball bats, hockey sticks, because if you ban guns that’ll all be the next thing but those don’t serve the libtard purpose’s.

If you read the comments of the founding fathers on this subject, their intent was not to protect your hunting capability but to provide a capable force to counter a corrupt or repressive government. They intended that if the government had an f16 the people should have one to protect themselves from that same government, to keep them honest as they say, we’ve slipped a bit !

Rant over, i’ll go back to sleep now.

Last edited by passx; 03-25-2018 at 08:04 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:54 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Schools can easily afford a top notch security program/force if they eliminate expensive sports programs , which only benefit a very select few over-privileged students.
Put on armed security, sure, but not at the cost of Eliminating athletic programs? That's not a good option, too may kids today don't do anything as it is and it leaves more time for them to get in trouble.
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  #14  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:55 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Schools can easily afford a top notch security program/force if they eliminate expensive sports programs , which only benefit a very select few over-privileged students.
Full disclosure....my daughter is a top pitcher in the state. The school has essentially ZERO budget for the Softball program. In fact, it’s so bad, the uniforms, two coaches salaries and some busses are paid for by fund raising. She plays on a national club team too. They have plenty of money. Schools? Nah....those programs got raped pillaged years ago.

We have an enrollement if 2,000 too so not a small school.

Trying to understand how athletes are over privileged few. We have a girl who is a teammate living with us now because she lives in squaller. Without sports this young lady would have nothing.

Last edited by WaterDR; 03-25-2018 at 07:57 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:57 AM
Slow bullet guy Slow bullet guy is offline
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I give up nothing. In fact, I've adopted a 6 year old who was lost in the DFACS system. The kind of kid that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. I've turned him into a Cub Scout. I've become his dens Leader. I've taught him about love, God and duty to Country. I pulled him out of school. I became his teacher, on my days off from work. My wife did the same. Toughest thing I've ever done.

I've also fathered another child that I don't have to. But I do because I want to. I've also taught him responsibility, work ethic and the importance of understanding truth. I taught him about getting off ones a$$ and being productive.

I give nothing up. No one should. Be proactive, seize and grab opportunities to step up, not step down. Enroll in the Big Brother/Big Sister Program. Foster a child. Coach youth sports. Become a Scout Leader. For Godsakes, next time you see a youth sports team collecting donations on the south side of town, put some dam change in their cups. They need to see that we care. They need to see that honest means yield good responses.

The fix is a generational fix. It has nothing to do with guns. It has nothing to do with school buildings. It has nothing to do with social media. It is a mentality problem. They need to see that WE care about them. How many of you, to include YOU op have thought about this?

Or, is it easier to attend a march, then explain to others that they need to make sacrifices?
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:00 AM
bulldozer1 bulldozer1 is offline
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11,000 Homicides per year by firearms. A fraction of 1% are carried out by "Assault Rifles."

This in a population of 325.7 Million.



The National Safety Council estimated automotive fatalities topped 40,000 for the second consecutive year.

Your chance of death in an automobile accident are 4 times greater than death by a firearm. If you are a Cacasian your chances of death by firearm shrinks dramatically.

These people have a much greater chance of dying in an automobile accident coming and going to these rallies then ever dying by a firearm.

If they were truly concerned about thier safety what would you focus your energy on.

Tools of the media.

This is a political agenda driven by Socialists and the media. The goal is to disarm the Citizens of the United States.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Last edited by bulldozer1; 03-25-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:01 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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My wife is a school teacher so everyday she goes to work with a target on her back. Do you know what she did yesterday? Joined the NRA.

Lets face reality. Taking guns is cheaper than fixing the real problem. More people are killed by drunk drivers than in school shootings. We still have cars.

Fixing the problem requires lots of money. New gun laws only require a pen.

To answer the question as to what I would give up? I will give up my guns when all the politicians and rich people get rid of their armed guards. If the average joe can not own or carry a gun then neither can they.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:04 AM
Maddog521 Maddog521 is offline
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The school districts need to spend their money more wisely. There is a lot of waste there for sure.
I wonder when "tyranny" was last mentioned in a classroom. I don't believe that word has been mentioned recently.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:05 AM
remanaz remanaz is offline
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We need to focus on the root causes. Not the object used. None of us want more shootings any where, not just at schools. But taking our guns away is not the answer. That is because the guns are not the cause of why the shooter chooses to shoot others. We need to work with the other side to dive down to the root cause of why these shooters want to harm others. Unfortunately from what we all know and what you said, the other side is focused on the object and not the root cause.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:06 AM
Minorcan Minorcan is offline
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I would be willing to give up listening to the stupid crap the liberal media is putting out. I would be willing to stop reading posts that support it. I would be willing give up voting for politicians that spend too much of my money to deprive me of my rites granted me in the Constiutution my father and his father and so on before them fought for. I would be willing to give up buying from companies that try to deprive me of what I have paid for.

Every day 28 people are killed by intoxicated drivers, that’s about 10,000 people per year. Do we hear about banning Jack Daniels, Beer, Vodka, Scotch? The law enforcement folks will arrest drunk drivers, why don’t they arrest parents that buy guns and abet child murderers? Why don’t they arrest the Parkland Florida school board for colluding with local law enforcement not to arrest students that commit violent crimes so the school board can get Federal funds?

Last edited by Minorcan; 03-25-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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  #21  
Old 03-25-2018, 08:07 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
My wife is a school teacher so everyday she goes to work with a target on her back. Do you know what she did yesterday? Joined the NRA.

Lets face reality. Taking guns is cheaper than fixing the real problem. More people are killed by drunk drivers than in school shootings. We still have cars.

Fixing the problem requires lots of money. New gun laws only require a pen.

To answer the question as to what I would give up, I hope we see more of this? I will give up my guns when all the politicians and rich people get rid of their armed guards. If the average joe can not own or carry a gun then neither can they
.
Bravo for your wife! And on your last point, I would add when police give up their guns. For me that is the acid-test, police have guns for a reason, a good reason, there is evil out there. And we know, and indeed, most cops will agree, they can't get to civilians in time to protect us. Therefore we need guns.
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  #22  
Old 03-25-2018, 08:17 AM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Originally Posted by WaterDR View Post
Full disclosure....my daughter is a top pitcher in the state. The school has essentially ZERO budget for the Softball program. In fact, it’s so bad, the uniforms, two coaches salaries and some busses are paid for by fund raising. She plays on a national club team too. They have plenty of money. Schools? Nah....those programs got raped pillaged years ago.

We have an enrollement if 2,000 too so not a small school.

Trying to understand how athletes are over privileged few. We have a girl who is a teammate living with us now because she lives in squaller. Without sports this young lady would have nothing.

I'll bet the boys football/basketball/baseball budget is much higher.

And you prove my point. Would that other student be living with you if she was a math wiz?
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2018, 08:19 AM
BK Meyers BK Meyers is offline
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give up???

Why should I agree to give up anything when I haven't done anything wrong??

Here's an idea for you and your way of thinking. I want you to give up your vehicle (turn it in to the police/government, cut it up, whatever). Why?? Because some mentally-off individual 1000 miles away drove into a crowd, killing and injuring innocent bystanders. I don't care if you've never had so much as a speeding ticket. YOU own a car so you must be part of the problem.

How many teens die or are injured every year due to distracted driving (such as cell phone use)?? Why is there no outcry to ban or regulate the use of cell phones to teenagers??? Here is an idea. Give up your cell phone. I don't care if you have never been in an accident involving cell phone use, you own one so you must be part of the problem so you MUST give it up.

Why are these protesters not asking about the failures of local and federal law enforcement?? Because that would not make news. Because their handlers don't want those questions asked. Because there is no political or power gain in those answers.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:22 AM
drail drail is offline
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Good post Mr. Meyers. Cell phone use is a MUCH bigger problem that is totally ignored by the Govt. for the same reason school shootings are - a few people are making huge profits from it and putting politicians to work for them. It will only change when they go out of business and we stop electing politicians who will sell their votes to anyone enough money.

Last edited by drail; 03-25-2018 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:23 AM
557 557 is offline
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Moderators, let me be the first to float this brilliant idea: An anti-2A subforum. A place to discuss appeasement, bash the NRA, and debate which natural rights to surrender to the progressives in exchange for....nothing.

Seriously, if schools can’t come up with money for security they need to cut elsewhere. Private education achieves better results with approximately half the money as government schools. My answer is the same to new taxes as to more restrictions on the 2A. No. Fix the problems, don’t come crying to the tax paying law abiding citizens for band aids to cover the wounds you’ve created with your liberal policies.
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