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  #1  
Old 02-02-2017, 06:06 PM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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Shooting with Glasses - Frustration Maximus

I've never been a great pistol shooter, but at 15-20 yards could get chest and head hits on targets reliably.

What's frustrating the heck out of me now, being +50 years old, is I use readers for close up vision (can see clearly at 15+ feet with no corrective lenses).

I don't want to practice with readers because I'm pretty sure the bad guy isn't going to wait for me to put them on before I shoot him in a real world scenario.

So I shoot without them. I cover the chest with the blurry sights and get reliable hits most of the time, but apparently my days of accuracy challenges are behind me.

How do you all do it? Is there a trick or training regiment that will help me get more accurate in the 10-15 yard range with my eyesight limitations?

I have resigned to the fact I just won't be picking off bad guys at distance if avoidable collateral damage is present (unavoidable is a case by case basis I guess).

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2017, 06:23 PM
BigAm BigAm is offline
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Is wearing glasses all the time out of the question? Im 35 years old now, and have been wearing glasses every single day since I was 8 years old. At this point I just dont even notice the glasses. I do however practice from time to time at defensive distances to make sure I understand how my astigmatism affects me out to around 15 yards since the ONLY time I'm not wearing my glasses is when Im sleeping.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2017, 06:29 PM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAm View Post
Is wearing glasses all the time out of the question? Im 35 years old now, and have been wearing glasses every single day since I was 8 years old. At this point I just dont even notice the glasses. I do however practice from time to time at defensive distances to make sure I understand how my astigmatism affects me out to around 15 yards since the ONLY time I'm not wearing my glasses is when Im sleeping.
I feel lucky that over the years my distance vision went from good to bad back to good again. So if I wear readers all the time, anything over 5-8 feet away is blurry.

It's like I have to choose - sights in focus or target. The other will always be blurry. I guess there may be bifocals with the main lenses just clear and no correction and with corrective lowers -

But mostly I hate wearing glasses, so I'd rather cross my fingers and hope someone magically solves my problem
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2017, 06:44 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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I didn't start wearing glasses until about a year ago, and needed bifocals.

What I did was have whats called 'occupational' or 'double D' lenses made- near vision grind top and bottom of the lens, distance vision in the center. This allows me to read, use a computer, drive, function normally- and shoot- with my everyday glasses.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2017, 06:45 PM
yeti yeti is offline
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I started to have struggles shooting medium - longer targets during USPSA events several years ago. It was a gradual slide and was not immediately apparent, but my A's started becoming B's & C's. It started to go downhill. It was really bad the more I pushed it. I tried a few different setups. Needed to go with a +1.00 corrected shooting glasses for a crisp front sight yet still maintained some distance vision. VIOLA! Much better.
Find the correction that works best for you and get a set of glasses. If you wear contacts talk to your provider. You may need a set of shooting lenses in addition to a daily wear set. Start with less magnification than you currently use for reading glasses. Find a happy medium between that crisp front sight and maintaining some distance vision. You need to just try out a few and see what works for you.

You need a crisp front sight (front sight focus) for long & medium ranged target presentations.
Shorter range targets can be taken quickly and accurately enough with point shooting/target focus.
As far as dealing with an attacker while not wearing corrective lenses? Train enough and I really doubt it will be an issue with an attacker at a reasonable distance...god forbid it ever becomes necessary. I hope it never comes to that!
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:24 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Corrective shooting glasses....

I am 65 and still shoot competitively. When I first started having problems with a blurry front sight, I went to the Dollar Tree store, bought 5 pairs of reading glasses ($5 investment) in weak to stronger diopters, and found the best diopter to use for my shooting stance and aiming. It worked fine....

However, I now use Elvex full magnifier Safety Glasses, and they are bit better for shooting. I use a +1.0 full view diopter:

http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/bf85.html

These are not bi-focal type safety glasses, but full view, meaning the entire vision no matter how you move our eyes/head is through the lens diopter. The cost is $9.40 per pair, and my only complaint is under certain weather conditions, they tend to fog up easier due to the wrap around lens that enclose the eye socket better. I use an anti-fog lens spray before the match.

The above web link shows the Elvex full magnifier safety glasses are offered in diopter ranges from +0.5 - +2.0. Simply find the proper diopter for your vision when presenting the gun at arm's length, and order the proper diopter....

Since most self defense encounters are usually 7 yards or less, point shooting or even using a blurry front sight should work.... You could also try wearing bifocals when you carry your weapon, and train to tilt your head higher when presenting the gun to use the bifocals to see the sight picture clearly. A more expensive option might be installing the new Reflex type rear sights with a red dot, or possibly trying a "laser grip" like the Crimson Trace. I have never used either of these last options, since I can still get a decent sight picture without using a +1.0 diopter lens. For reading, I normally wear a +1.25 lens, but for smaller print, I may wear a +1.50 diopter lens. Yeah, getting old sucks, but it is still better than being 6ft. below ground.....!

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 02-03-2017 at 05:41 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:43 AM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
I am 65 and still shoot competitively. When I first started having problems with a blurry front sight, I went to the Dollar Tree store, bought 5 pairs of reading glasses ($5 investment) in weak to stronger diopters, and found the best diopter to for my shooting stance and aiming. It worked fine....

However, I now use Elvex full magnifier Safety Glasses, and they are bit better for shooting. I use a +1.0 full view diopter:

http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/bf85.html

The cost is $9.40 per pair, and my only complaint is under certain weather conditions, they tend to fog up easier due to the wrap around lens that enclose the eye socket better. I use an anti-fog lens spray before the match.

The above web link shows the Elvex full magnifier safety glasses are offered in diopter ranges from +0.5 - +2.0. Simply find the proper diopter for your vision when presenting the gun at arm's length, and order the proper diopter...
I guess my question is - isn't the target blurry when you wear them? I can push my reading glasses up and see my sights clearly but that also makes a 10-15 yard target extremely blurry.

I can see using bi-focal safety glasses and adjusting my hold for accuracy fun shooting at the range.

What I guess I was wondering is: are there others that need glasses for closeup, but no glasses for distance (hence not wearing glasses when walking the town). If so, do you bother to train in some manner to specifically overcome the situation, or have you figured out a way to shoot that seems to maximize on-target hits at these distances.

I'm getting better at point shooting so am working on that mostly - just throwing this out to the community in case someone figured out a "trick" to minimize this issue.
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:22 AM
akamucho akamucho is offline
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to me it never feels natural mostly when you are using a scope and the focal point of your glasses and your scope are getting your head all mixed up
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  #9  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:04 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Blurry target....

Even with 20/20 vision, the human eye can not focus "clearly" on two objects at different distances at the same time. Even when I had 20/20 vision and did not require reading glasses, when I focused on the front sight, the target was slightly blurry.

However, using a stronger diopter reading glass may make the target slightly more blurry, but with proper sight alignment and proper aiming area technique, you should be able to shoot fast and accurately with good technique. The greater the target distance, the greater the need for proper sight alignment.

You do not need a clear and crisp view of the target for most handgun shooting, but do need to be able to see well enough to cover an aiming area on the target regardless of how blurry it may be. Sighting a handgun in an "aiming area" is different than shooting a rifle and using an "aiming point."

Accurate Shooting: Aiming Area and Sight Alignment

One of the most difficult concepts for a new shooter to understand is controlling the sights and trigger pull in an "aiming area" rather than only pressing the trigger when the sights are in perfect alignment with the target bullseye. Every shooter of a handgun has a "wobble area." The more experienced shooter has a much smaller wobble area, and some can almost hold the gun virtually still for short time periods. If a person is shooting for accuracy, the most important factor to eliminate is "angular shift." Angular shift means the sights were not properly aligned in the rear notch when the shot breaks. When the sights are not correctly aligned, the angle of the bullet path is not proper with the target, and the amount of error is compounded with distance. The Army Marksmanship Blue Book states that 1/100th" of sight alignment (about the width of a human hair) error at 50 yards, will change the point of impact 3". The greatest challenge for new shooters is to keep the sights properly aligned as they break the shot regardless of the wobble area. Too many shooters get preoccupied with only pressing on the trigger when the sights are in the bullseye. This leads to trigger jerking and an angular shift of the sights so the shot usually hits low and left for a right handed shooter. I emphasize pressing the trigger straight to the rear when the sights are properly aligned regardless of the wobble area and the illusion of the sights “not” being dead center on the target. If a person has a 2" wobble area, it gives the illusion that the sights may not even be on target at 25 yards. However, if the sights are properly aligned and the shot breaks without disturbing that alignment, the shot on the target will be within a two inch area. To counter act the effect of only pressing the trigger when the sights are within the bullseye of a target, I use a blank target. I will demonstrate by putting up a blank cardboard target at 15 yards, and shoot a group. I emphasize my focus on sight alignment before, during, and after the shot. I also mention that I am simply placing the sights within the middle of the blank target, and will squeeze the trigger straight back as long as the sights are aligned, regardless of my movement of wobble area. New shooters are rather amazed at the results when they try shooting on a blank target with total focus on keeping the sights in proper alignment as they break the shot. Another difficult concept for some new shooters is the proper grip tension and trigger control. Some new shooters do not have the muscle training to use a firm grip, yet have a relaxed trigger finger. When they tighten up their grip to take hold of the gun, they automatically tighten their trigger finger, which is not conducive to good trigger control. The ability to use a firm grip with a relaxed trigger finger must be practiced and learned for some shooters, since they initially can not isolate the muscles that control their trigger finger. I always recommend dry fire practice for these folks, and let them know this lack of muscle control for the trigger finger is quite common and can be learned with practice.
One of the most important concepts to learn in Action Shooting events is how much sight alignment may be needed for the distance and target presentation. At close distances of 5 - 7 yards, the "angular shift" of sight alignment is not a great factor compared to the distance. On a full target, the gun can be indexed without the sights and usually get a good hit in the center of the target with proper trigger control. If you move the target to a 10 - 15 yard head shot, then it would be more important to get a better sight alignment to ensure a hit. The greater the distance to the target, or the smaller the target, the importance of proper sight alignment is magnified due to the effects of angular shift. Don't fear a long distance shot, practice them using proper sight alignment and an aiming area opposed to an aiming point.

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 02-03-2017 at 07:09 AM.
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:45 AM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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Do whatever you need to do to focus on the front sight.

Doing so your target will be blurry, but your accuracy will improve.
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2017, 08:26 AM
yeti yeti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post

http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/bf85.html

These are not bi-focal type safety glasses, but full view, meaning the entire vision no matter how you move our eyes/head is through the lens diopter. The cost is $9.40 per pair, and my only complaint is under certain weather conditions, they tend to fog up easier due to the wrap around lens that enclose the eye socket better. I use an anti-fog lens spray before the match.

The above web link shows the Elvex full magnifier safety glasses are offered in diopter ranges from +0.5 - +2.0. Simply find the proper diopter for your vision when presenting the gun at arm's length, and order the proper diopter....
Good recommendation! Try several and see what works best.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:56 AM
techiede44 techiede44 is offline
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I now use RX inserts on my Wiley-X glasses with my right eye set for front sight focus and the left for distance. Took a while to get used to but it helped my shooting greatly.

If I were faced with a real world scenario I'm just hoping that I'll be @ 10 yards and under which I can manage center of mass with using the old eye balls.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2017, 04:21 PM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
Even with 20/20 vision, the human eye can not focus "clearly" on two objects at different distances at the same time. Even when I had 20/20 vision and did not require reading glasses, when I focused on the front sight, the target was slightly blurry.

However, using a stronger diopter reading glass may make the target slightly more blurry, but with proper sight alignment and proper aiming area technique, you should be able to shoot fast and accurately with good technique. The greater the target distance, the greater the need for proper sight alignment.

You do not need a clear and crisp view of the target for most handgun shooting, but do need to be able to see well enough to cover an aiming area on the target regardless of how blurry it may be. Sighting a handgun in an "aiming area" is different than shooting a rifle and using an "aiming point."

Accurate Shooting: Aiming Area and Sight Alignment

One of the most difficult concepts for a new shooter to understand is controlling the sights and trigger pull in an "aiming area" rather than only pressing the trigger when the sights are in perfect alignment with the target bullseye. Every shooter of a handgun has a "wobble area." The more experienced shooter has a much smaller wobble area, and some can almost hold the gun virtually still for short time periods. If a person is shooting for accuracy, the most important factor to eliminate is "angular shift." Angular shift means the sights were not properly aligned in the rear notch when the shot breaks. When the sights are not correctly aligned, the angle of the bullet path is not proper with the target, and the amount of error is compounded with distance. The Army Marksmanship Blue Book states that 1/100th" of sight alignment (about the width of a human hair) error at 50 yards, will change the point of impact 3". The greatest challenge for new shooters is to keep the sights properly aligned as they break the shot regardless of the wobble area. Too many shooters get preoccupied with only pressing on the trigger when the sights are in the bullseye. This leads to trigger jerking and an angular shift of the sights so the shot usually hits low and left for a right handed shooter. I emphasize pressing the trigger straight to the rear when the sights are properly aligned regardless of the wobble area and the illusion of the sights “not” being dead center on the target. If a person has a 2" wobble area, it gives the illusion that the sights may not even be on target at 25 yards. However, if the sights are properly aligned and the shot breaks without disturbing that alignment, the shot on the target will be within a two inch area. To counter act the effect of only pressing the trigger when the sights are within the bullseye of a target, I use a blank target. I will demonstrate by putting up a blank cardboard target at 15 yards, and shoot a group. I emphasize my focus on sight alignment before, during, and after the shot. I also mention that I am simply placing the sights within the middle of the blank target, and will squeeze the trigger straight back as long as the sights are aligned, regardless of my movement of wobble area. New shooters are rather amazed at the results when they try shooting on a blank target with total focus on keeping the sights in proper alignment as they break the shot. Another difficult concept for some new shooters is the proper grip tension and trigger control. Some new shooters do not have the muscle training to use a firm grip, yet have a relaxed trigger finger. When they tighten up their grip to take hold of the gun, they automatically tighten their trigger finger, which is not conducive to good trigger control. The ability to use a firm grip with a relaxed trigger finger must be practiced and learned for some shooters, since they initially can not isolate the muscles that control their trigger finger. I always recommend dry fire practice for these folks, and let them know this lack of muscle control for the trigger finger is quite common and can be learned with practice.
One of the most important concepts to learn in Action Shooting events is how much sight alignment may be needed for the distance and target presentation. At close distances of 5 - 7 yards, the "angular shift" of sight alignment is not a great factor compared to the distance. On a full target, the gun can be indexed without the sights and usually get a good hit in the center of the target with proper trigger control. If you move the target to a 10 - 15 yard head shot, then it would be more important to get a better sight alignment to ensure a hit. The greater the distance to the target, or the smaller the target, the importance of proper sight alignment is magnified due to the effects of angular shift. Don't fear a long distance shot, practice them using proper sight alignment and an aiming area opposed to an aiming point.
Thank you for posting this! I greatly enjoy learning specific details like you noted, explanations of why things happen and how to work to correct them. I'm really looking forward to my next range visit - I feel like I have a few tools to help me improve now.
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:57 AM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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So heading to the range this morning to try out a number of suggestions.

The other active thread here - "Cross Eyed Dominant", along with what RWEHAVIN... said about one eye better/worse than the other - got me to thinking [DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!!!]:

Since I'm comfortably ambidextrous with a rifle (but shoot righty for consistency), and if I don't concentrate, I can close either eye when holding a pistol with equal ease (though can only comfortably fire the pistol right handed).

Sure enough - left eye is much better than right, sights are definitely clearer. So I started dry-fire practice left eye/right hand and in a couple minutes it was comfortably automatic.

Good, bad, or otherwise - I'm going to see how that goes for at least a couple mags.

Just fyi, I had been shooting one pistol only for 20+ years, a SA V10 3.5" 1911. Finally the poor thing irreparably broke and was replaced with a ROC. Apparently I point/shot that thing to heck because it's only now, with a different sight picture, weight, etc. that is causing me all this heartburn .

I will duly report my efforts...

Last edited by Blkopscott; 02-04-2017 at 12:36 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:59 AM
RichT RichT is offline
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understand the frustration

I wore glasses for most of my life. Then 25 years ago, had RK surgery. It was like a miracle. Suddenly I was 20/20 in my left eye, and 20/25 in my right. That was great for about 20+ years. But, in the last 4/5 years, I've had to adopt readers for close up work, magazines, small print contracts, etc.

A trick I learned for defensive shooting, and taught to my girlfriend was this. When you present your firearm, focus only on the front sight, forget the rear. Then raise the gun to the target, keeping the front sight in focus. As the front sight contacts the bullseye, shift focus to the target, start to squeeze the trigger. Don't try for a perfect sight picture. After practicing this, she is able to put 10 out of 10 from her Smith M&P 40 in a 4" silhouette pretty much every time.

May not work for everyone, and certainly won't make you a bullseye master, but it will work to put down the BG.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:01 PM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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Might be on to something...


Much better groups, 7-20 yards were all very satisfying. Between getting a lot of rounds in to get used to it, and the left eye/right hand, tilt the gun slightly - my head was straight and still, and sights seemed easier to pick up.

Fun day!
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  #17  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:11 PM
Blkopscott Blkopscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichT View Post
I wore glasses for most of my life. Then 25 years ago, had RK surgery. It was like a miracle. Suddenly I was 20/20 in my left eye, and 20/25 in my right. That was great for about 20+ years. But, in the last 4/5 years, I've had to adopt readers for close up work, magazines, small print contracts, etc.

A trick I learned for defensive shooting, and taught to my girlfriend was this. When you present your firearm, focus only on the front sight, forget the rear. Then raise the gun to the target, keeping the front sight in focus. As the front sight contacts the bullseye, shift focus to the target, start to squeeze the trigger. Don't try for a perfect sight picture. After practicing this, she is able to put 10 out of 10 from her Smith M&P 40 in a 4" silhouette pretty much every time.

May not work for everyone, and certainly won't make you a bullseye master, but it will work to put down the BG.
Nice. Each time I go to the range now I try to have planned agenda on what to work on.

This is at the top of the list for next week.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2017, 08:13 PM
flechero flechero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkopscott View Post
How do you all do it? Is there a trick or training regiment that will help me get more accurate in the 10-15 yard range with my eyesight limitations?
I'm in the same boat- eyes changing fast and I can't wear glasses for the headaches. I started shooting a little longer distances and smaller steel targets. Frustrating at first but start off slow and work back up. You might also look into some new sights... perhaps there is a combination that you'll see better. I filed out the rear sight since I couldn't get a wide U notch in the height I needed- it's ugly but works pretty good! When eyes got worse, I changed the front to fiber optic and that also helped.

Good luck!
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2017, 09:41 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Aiming area and cross dominance......

Blkopscott: Nice shooting and an excellent shot group!
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2017, 10:13 PM
Jack Ryan Jack Ryan is offline
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62. Wore glasses all my, well all I can ever remember. Far sighted, astigmatism, you name it. Bifocals, coke bottles, contact lenses, sorry I just can't work up much sympathy.

Welcome to my world.
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:22 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Get glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkopscott View Post
...
What's frustrating the heck out of me now, being +50 years old, is I use readers for close up vision (can see clearly at 15+ feet with no corrective lenses).

I don't want to practice with readers because I'm pretty sure the bad guy isn't going to wait for me to put them on before I shoot him in a real world scenario.

So I shoot without them. I cover the chest with the blurry sights and get reliable hits most of the time, but apparently my days of accuracy challenges are behind me.

How do you all do it? Is there a trick or training regiment that will help me get more accurate in the 10-15 yard range with my eyesight limitations?
...
Since age seven, I've worn bifocals. In very short order you learn to angle your head for the required lense: it becomes automatic. These days they make multi-focal lenses; I tried progressives and went back to bi-focals. Some people like multi-focal or progressives better.

Wearing glasses has saved the vision in one or the other of my eyes a time or two. My preference is for near-sighted, corrected, binocular vision to any form of monocular: so wearing glasses has worked out well for me.
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