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  #1  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:31 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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all the brand crap....

when 80% of all ar lower receivers start life as a forging from FNH or colt, yeah the industry is an interesting one, why are all you fan boys drinking the kool aid for a specific brand being better then a different brand that's made from the same OEM forging?

Sure machining is different, BUT the thing is why fight over "mil spec" when the only TWO companies that HAVE the mil spec book are COLT and FNH
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:32 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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I was issued an original FNH lower receiver in basic. It was an original gov contract A2
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:44 AM
MagnumWill MagnumWill is offline
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I enjoy this as well. Lewis Machine and Tool are selling Anchor Harbor stripped uppers for $150. I bought the same one from Brownells on sale for $45.
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:48 AM
Sr. Oso Sr. Oso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
when 80% of all ar lower receivers start life as a forging from FNH or colt, yeah the industry is an interesting one, why are all you fan boys drinking the kool aid for a specific brand being better then a different brand that's made from the same OEM forging
And you know this how?
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2020, 07:12 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Are you referring to lowers only, or complete rifles?
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2020, 07:31 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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So, Daniel Defense, LWRC, Barrett, and Patriot Ordinance Factory buy their lowers from Colt and FNH? I'm pretty sure that the companies I just mentioned make every part on their guns, other than the grips. Plus, the upper is the distinguishing and by far the most important part of the gun. Heck, there are lots of builds out there now with plastic lower receivers. Even if what the OP said was correct, which it is not, the upper receiver is where the bolt, barrel, gas system, rail, sights, and optics all reside. And the trigger is independent of the lower anyway. The lower is just the lower.

Last edited by bradsvette; 02-03-2020 at 07:40 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2020, 07:41 AM
mdram mdram is offline
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machining? casting? forging?
i was under the impression cerro made alot of the blanks

a google brought up this list

Lewis Machine & Tool

LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett


Continental Machine Tool

Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt


LAR Manufacturing

LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical


JVP

Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly


Mega Machine Shop

Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms


Olympic

Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)


Sun Devil

Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Lone Star Armory forged billet receivers


Superior

Superior Arms
Lauer (New)


Aero Precision

Aero Precision
Surplus Ammo and Arms
Palmetto State Armory
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:03 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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Thank you,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdram View Post
machining? casting? forging?
i was under the impression cerro made alot of the blanks

a google brought up this list

Lewis Machine & Tool

LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett


Continental Machine Tool

Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt


LAR Manufacturing

LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical


JVP

Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly


Mega Machine Shop

Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms


Olympic

Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)


Sun Devil

Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Lone Star Armory forged billet receivers


Superior

Superior Arms
Lauer (New)


Aero Precision

Aero Precision
Surplus Ammo and Arms
Palmetto State Armory
Thank you, some people stir the pot out of ignorance.

All the best,
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  #9  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:30 AM
Faawrenchbender's Avatar
Faawrenchbender Faawrenchbender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
when 80% of all ar lower receivers start life as a forging from FNH or colt, yeah the industry is an interesting one, why are all you fan boys drinking the kool aid for a specific brand being better then a different brand that's made from the same OEM forging?

Sure machining is different, BUT the thing is why fight over "mil spec" when the only TWO companies that HAVE the mil spec book are COLT and FNH
A forged billet may be created by the same manufacturer, but this does not make them equals. Anderson and a Knights Armament are set apart by the quality and tolerances held during the machining processes.
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:38 AM
mdram mdram is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faawrenchbender View Post
A forged billet may be created by the same manufacturer, but this does not make them equals. Anderson and a Knights Armament are set apart by the quality and tolerances held during the machining processes.
anderson machines thier own, knights has lmt do per the list i found

i would bet the tolerances are not that far apart
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:20 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Lol, LWRC, LMT, and Wilson all make ALL their stuff in house. I personally saw Wilson take bars of metal and turn them into guns using crazy tolerance standards so I can say with total confidence their weapons are totally superior in terms of tolerances, materials, attention, and finish.

That's why they are the top tier makers.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:23 AM
mdram mdram is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Lol, LWRC, LMT, and Wilson all make ALL their stuff in house. I personally saw Wilson take bars of metal and turn them into guns using crazy tolerance standards so I can say with total confidence their weapons are totally superior in terms of tolerances, materials, attention, and finish.

That's why they are the top tier makers.
you have to define make
i have freinds that work at lwrc, they get forgings in then machine them
the do not make the forgings
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2020, 11:29 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdram View Post
you have to define make
i have freinds that work at lwrc, they get forgings in then machine them
the do not make the forgings
They get a pallet of blanks, everything else they do. Turns rectangular blocks of metal into guns.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2020, 11:39 AM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
why are all you fan boys drinking the kool aid for a specific brand being better then a different brand that's made from the same OEM forging?




I'm more concerned about the internals.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2020, 11:41 AM
mdram mdram is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
They get a pallet of blanks, everything else they do. Turns rectangular blocks of metal into guns.
that would make it a billet, not a forged

and i believe they state forged
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2020, 11:51 AM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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There are marks and forge codes on recievers that indicate where the forging came from. Many manufacturers buy forgings from a handful of vendors available, and machine them out to their specs. The innards are contracted out to multiple vendors. Continental Machine Tool was Colt's main supplier for many years. Toolcraft sells Bolt carrier groups to many companies. Okay industries made most of the milspec 30 round aluminum magazines (regardless of the name on the floorplate). The only completely "in house" rifle I can think of is Daniel Defense.

What makes one company "better" than the other is how they discriminating they are in the final assembly. For example, a hammer that might get thrown in the reject pile at the Colt plant, could very well considered serviceable at the Olympic arms plant.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:01 PM
mdram mdram is offline
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some more forging info i dug up

LMT is: No Forge Marks, but marked LMT or L is: LMT
AF is: Alcoa Forge
C AF is: Colt Alco Forge
A (splintered) = Anchor Harvey Aluminum
C MB is: Colt / Mueller Brass
Cardinal’s head (stylized bird head) is: Cardinal Forge
CH is: Colt Harvey Aluminum
Crosshairs w/"AR" is: ArmaLite
CK is: Colt / Kaiser Aluminum
CM is: Colt / Martin Marietta
D (stylized) is: Diemaco
DK is: Diemaco / Kaiser Aluminum
E is: Emco
EK is: EMCO/Kaiser
E MB is: EMCO/Mueller Brass
FA is: FNMI / Anchor Harvey
FK is: FNMI / Kaiser Aluminum
FM is: FN/Martin Marietta
FMB is: FNMI / Mueller Brass
LK is: LAR / Kaiser Aluminum
LM is: LAR / Martin Marietta
M "diamond" is: Mueller Industries
PA is: Capco / Anchor Harvey
PM is: Capco / Martin Marietta
Square (symbol) is: Brass Aluminum

M-16 markings:

CAF Colt / Alcoa Forge
CH Colt / Harvey Aluminum (1st Colt Forgings)
CM Colt / Martin Marietta
DK Diemaco / Kaiser
FK, FS, BK, DK, EK, FK, AF, CW, AA, FS Bushmaster
LK FN / Kaiser
LM LAR / Martin Marietta (Army Spares Contract)
“Splintered A” F: FNMI Anchor Harvey“Splintered A” F: FNMI Anchor Harvey
“Splintered A” C: Colt Anchor Harvey
Splintered A Olympic Arms? (Anchor Harvey)


My list of verified upper receiver forge markings used by AR-15 upper manufactuers/sellers


DSA - Cardinal forge
Rock River - Cardinal forge
Delton - Cerro forge, square
DPMS - Cerro
Spikes Tactical - Cerro
Stag - Cardinal, Cerro
LWRC- splintered A
Para USA - ZM
Knight’s Armament - Cerro (keyhole)
Wilson Combat - splintered A
Double Star - Cerro
Smith &Wesson - Cerro
Daniel Defense - Cerro
Sabre Defense - Cerro?
Remington - Cerro
BCM - Cerro, square
Bushmaster - Cerro
Stag - splintered A, Cardinal
J&T Distributing (Doublestar) - Cerro, C
CMMG - Cerro
Colt M4 - Cerro (C keyhole), square, Cardinal (“C“ bird‘s head), C AF
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:56 PM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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I believe Ruger makes their own also. Perhaps smith as well?
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:09 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdram View Post
that would make it a billet, not a forged

and i believe they state forged
I believe you can have a forged blank and or very high quality that is then machined to shape like in the automotive world. I don't know that is what they are buying or not but I would not be surprised if they are

My LWRCs are unmarked on the uppers and lowers so I can't check against the list here who made them
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:13 PM
mdram mdram is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I believe you can have a forged blank and or very high quality that is then machined to shape like in the automotive world. I don't know that is what they are buying or not but I would not be surprised if they are

My LWRCs are unmarked on the uppers and lowers so I can't check against the list here who made them
yep, a forged blank though is not a rectangle, its in a rough shape
sometimes they come up for sale as 0% or 20% or some other name

might look something like this

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  #21  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:18 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdram View Post
yep, a forged blank though is not a rectangle, its in a rough shape
sometimes they come up for sale as 0% or 20% or some other name

might look something like this

Those right there were used for the lower end ones, the "Billet" line just came as rectangular blocks. I am not sure who makes those but the majority of the guns do not use those.
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:22 PM
mdram mdram is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Those right there were used for the lower end ones, the "Billet" line just came as rectangular blocks. I am not sure who makes those but the majority of the guns do not use those.
i actually prefer forged over billet, the heat treating after forging releases stress better and allows the grain to be better aligned
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:34 PM
7in1911 7in1911 is offline
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I've done some builds using different uppers / lowers makes. I've noticed the machining between manufactures vary a little, some to the point there is very noticeable play and light between them fitted together.

I now prefer to only using matching upper / lower from a manufacturer as a match set. Using other high quality parts as a custom build for tight groups on target is what I like.
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:46 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyk View Post
I believe Ruger makes their own also. Perhaps smith as well?
Early S&Ws were literally just rebranded Stag Arms rifles. Later ones are assembled from various outsourced components. Ruger is essentially the same way.
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:10 PM
EL Perdido EL Perdido is offline
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There is a considerable chunk of truth in the adage "a lower is a lower is a lower" when it comes to forged AR lower receivers.
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