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  #1  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:41 AM
missing link missing link is offline
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Help with AR 10 Please

I am starting to learn about AR's now and they seem pretty cool. My kid has a DPMS AR 10 that he has been shooting some steel case Tula Ammo with.

Not a lot of rounds ever fired through the rifle. The first time we shot it was with Tula, last year, maybe 100 rnds. It has sat in the safe while he has been in school. Yesterday, with school largely closed, he took it to the range and reported that he had 4 stove-pipes out of 50 rnds.

He described the failures as the neck of the spent case sticking out of the ejection port, perpendicularly, while the bolt is trying to strip the next live round from the magazine to feed into the chamber.

I field stripped it on the workbench, it appears clean and 'ok'. The ejector pin (correct term?) in the bolt face seems OK, the extractor seems OK as well.

It there something I should be looking for?

Is it simply a matter of cheap or underpowered ammo not running the bolt with enough energy?

It ran great the first time 9 months ago with the same ammo.

Any help or advice is appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:48 AM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is offline
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Run it wet and use some good ammo and reevaluate
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:09 AM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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It may very likely be under powered ammunition. Try some better stuff and see what happens.
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:51 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I am with these guys.

.308 gas guns like hot ammo.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:56 PM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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DPMS explicitly warns that foreign made ammo will void their warranty. Not sure if that matters now, but its based on very spotty ammo quality of foreign ammo like Tula steel cased stuff. Try some American made brass cased ammo and run it a little wet.
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:33 PM
top gun 638 top gun 638 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 400cor-bon View Post
Run it wet and use some good ammo and reevaluate
what does that mean when you say run it wet?
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:34 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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Clean and lubricate the rifle. Could be a sticky chamber from the finish on the steel cases (on some ammo and not others) resulting in poor extraction.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:57 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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The steel cases are probably sticking in the chamber and causing the bolt carrier to slow down. Hence your stove piping. Lube it well and shoot some brass case ammo thru it.
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:26 PM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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Switch to brass cased ammo and add oil to the moving parts.
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:44 PM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is offline
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Wet = well lubed
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2020, 07:02 PM
missing link missing link is offline
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Thank you for the lube comment!! Maybe I should start another lube thread!!!

When I was fiddling with it this morning, it was dry as a popcorn fart. The bolt was dry and found after searching intra-web pages there are plenty of places to lube it.

I will lube it up and see how it goes.

Makes sense, too, it worked fine for limited rounds, probably had some assembly/shipping lube on it. Sat around for 9 months and I am sure this kid didn’t clean it (the other kid is very meticulous, not this one). Now it is dry and dirty and doesn't run.

Thank you for the help!!

Pete
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:49 PM
Jason D Jason D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by top gun 638 View Post
what does that mean when you say run it wet?
I took a brand new upper out in the back yard a couple years ago to test fire it. It was dry from the factory, and it malfunctioned after the first round. It wouldn't feed at all, and the first round casing was stuck in the ejection port.

I pulled the bolt carrier, lubed it, and reinstalled it. I stepped back outside and run the magazine dry without a problem. You don't have to have lube running out of the gun, but they need lubrication to run.

If your gun sat for awhile, it may have been dry as a bone inside.
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:09 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I should have included this as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason D View Post
I took a brand new upper out in the back yard a couple years ago to test fire it. It was dry from the factory, and it malfunctioned after the first round. It wouldn't feed at all, and the first round casing was stuck in the ejection port.

I pulled the bolt carrier, lubed it, and reinstalled it. I stepped back outside and run the magazine dry without a problem. You don't have to have lube running out of the gun, but they need lubrication to run.

If your gun sat for awhile, it may have been dry as a bone inside.
ARs of any persuasion do not like to run dry. Throw some oil on it as well.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2020, 06:54 AM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is offline
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Breaking in a new AR, I wear an old tshirt so the lube splatter don't matter
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2020, 02:24 PM
Steam Boat Steam Boat is offline
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Was the AR-10 cleaned after your first session with the Tula Ammo ? Or did you or him just put it away dirty after shooting corrosive steel cased Ammo ?
It may need a thorough cleaning and examined by a competent gunsmith for any corrosion damage.
You can also check the chamber for lacquer or poly (which ever Tula is coated with) build up causing sticking and slow extraction & partial ejection.
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Last edited by Steam Boat; 03-21-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2020, 06:29 PM
missing link missing link is offline
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Took the DPMS AR 10 out while my boy was at working at the grocery store today - he is not too trilled with working extra hours at the store during the ‘crisis’ - while dad is out shootin’ stuff.

Anyway, still had problems with the cheapo ammo despite lubing the bolt (including internals). Same kind of trouble - stovepiped spent round and a fresh round jammed halfway into the chamber.

One of us will need to pick up some decent ammo and run it through.

Thanks to all for the input and help.

Pete
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  #17  
Old 03-21-2020, 08:43 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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If the better ammo works fine then the problem is solved. But if you have a lot of the steel case ammo to use up, you could try a less strong buffer spring. They do make different strength springs for the ARs. Another possibility is a more light in weight buffer unit too. Use those only for the weaker ammo though. Then there is the gas block, is it adjustable? if so you could open up the gas port a little more by adjusting gas block.

Last edited by earlwb; 03-21-2020 at 08:44 PM. Reason: typo
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  #18  
Old 03-21-2020, 09:31 PM
Bubba68 Bubba68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by top gun 638 View Post
what does that mean when you say run it wet?
Most AR's like to run well lubed. Lube the bolt carrier assembly with a light weight gun oil to the point where the oil is almost dripping off of the bolt carrier until you run a couple hundred rounds through it to break it in.

An AR will usually run wet and dirty but not so much dry and dirty.
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2020, 06:38 PM
Steam Boat Steam Boat is offline
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Did you clean it before “lubing and firing” with the same Ammo ? Did you inspect around the gas block for leakage ?
If the Ammo ran good a year ago and now runs like crap, was the Ammo stored in the backyard getting rained & snowed on and subjected to very low and high temperature variances to weaken the Ammo powder ?
If the same Ammo ran good before, you have a problem with the rifle due to dirt & corrosion and or leakage in the gas system.
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  #20  
Old 03-22-2020, 09:19 PM
341 341 is online now
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My DPMS 308AR gas key worked loose after a couple hundred rounds and the gun then stopped running. Make sure the gas key bolts are tight and properly staked, mine were not properly staked, obviously.
Troy341
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  #21  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:08 PM
missing link missing link is offline
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Steam Boat and 341: I will need to look into the gas block/etc parts and report back. Will need to do some research.

Steam Boat, ammo and rifle are kept in cool dry place in the house. Not humid or uncontrolled climate.

We don’t have a lot of steel ammo on-hand but perhaps a bit more bolt velocity could help. Maybe this is more applicable as a ‘plan b’ option.

Will look into gas system particulars this week....

Pete
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  #22  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:47 AM
Viper_29 Viper_29 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steam Boat View Post
Was the AR-10 cleaned after your first session with the Tula Ammo ? Or did you or him just put it away dirty after shooting corrosive steel cased Ammo ?
It may need a thorough cleaning and examined by a competent gunsmith for any corrosion damage.
You can also check the chamber for lacquer or poly (which ever Tula is coated with) build up causing sticking and slow extraction & partial ejection.
Tula is shotty ammo but it's not corrosive.
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2020, 05:37 PM
Plaidad Plaidad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missing link View Post
Took the DPMS AR 10 out while my boy was at working at the grocery store today - he is not too trilled with working extra hours at the store during the ‘crisis’ - while dad is out shootin’ stuff.

Anyway, still had problems with the cheapo ammo despite lubing the bolt (including internals). Same kind of trouble - stovepiped spent round and a fresh round jammed halfway into the chamber.

One of us will need to pick up some decent ammo and run it through.

Thanks to all for the input and help.

Pete
That's mighty nice of you to "troubleshoot" the rifle for your son. The least he could do would be buy you a couple of boxes of ammo.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2020, 03:28 PM
Albroswift Albroswift is offline
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Yes, lube the heck out of it

Also, VERY IMPORTANT try load one round only and fire, bolt locks back all the way? If it does, you are not under gassed or weak ammo, just the opposite. Common problem with AR308's. Can be solved with the correct (heavier) buffer and spring. If your buffer tube is 7" internal depth, Sprinco Orange spring and KVP 5.6 oz 2-1/2" buffer. or Pur-Tungsten 5.3oz, KAK, heavy buffers, etc. I'm running a 6.8 oz buffer in one of my builds. If you have a 7-3/4" internal tube depth, use the armalite EA1095 spring and Armalite 5.4oz 3-1/4" buffer. A lot of DPMS based recoil systems are way weak. An adjustable gas block is a great add to fine tune ejection after the above correct components are installed.
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