TCM trouble in paradise - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2015, 07:50 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
TCM trouble in paradise

seems i have a sticky chamber

cases are getting stuck in chamber after firing .
Not an ext'r issue, as the spent case is stuck and has to be pried out

bummer

can't see anything obvious in the chamber causing the trouble.
I can clean it, then run a mag or two before they start getting stuck again

dammit...

..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-04-2015, 09:42 PM
pmiya pmiya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 118
I had the same issue with cases being stuck in the chamber. There is a thread about "extraction" problems that covers a lot of information. One of the main problems has been excessively long cases. Measure the cases that were stuck to see if they are longer than cases that functioned. Also check for indications of excessive pressure on the cases that were stuck.

I haven't had issues with reloads. I trim my cases before I reload them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-04-2015, 09:44 PM
SavageOne SavageOne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEMO, USA
Posts: 1,092
Are the cases swelled? Could it be a head space issue, like shooting a 5.56 in a .223?
__________________
Aude Vide Tace

We don't fight because of who we fear. We fight because of who we are.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 04-04-2015, 10:26 PM
TfflHndn TfflHndn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Western WA
Posts: 14
I had the same issue recently. Gotta trim the cases and keep the chamber very clean. That'll cure a lot of the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2015, 10:36 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
thanks Gents!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageOne View Post
Are the cases swelled? Could it be a head space issue, like shooting a 5.56 in a .223?
cases don't look swelled .
I know nothing about headspace with bottleneck rnds, S'One



Quote:
One of the main problems has been excessively long cases. Measure the cases that were stuck to see if they are longer than cases that functioned.
just measured a handful of spent cases
(not positive which were the stuck ones)

1.025 was shortest
Most are between 1.025 and 1.030

The one case I "know" was stuck is 1.038.
several more read 1.035

I measured some factory loaded rnds as best I could with calipers.
Most are at 1.025
some as long as 1.030

maybe those are the ones sticking??



Quote:
Also check for indications of excessive pressure on the cases that were stuck.

Primer is a little flattened, but noting out of the norm for a hot cartridge
(no more or less than what you'd see in most 9mm, 40 and 10mm)


what trim length is suggested??
My TCM dies should be here Wed.
never loaded bottle neck cartridges before ...I'll be asking lots of questions

maybe it's the QC on the ammo??
What I have is Armscor USA
Monday my on-line shipment should be here
I ordered 250rnds USA and 250 Pi made


..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2015, 10:42 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Arkansas
Age: 65
Posts: 5,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
My TCM dies should be here Wed.
never loaded bottle neck cartridges before ...I'll be asking lots of questions




..L.T.A.
WWHHHHOOOOOOO BOY!!

Bob
__________________
As hard as I've tried, I just can't agree with Trump on building a wall. Minefields would be SO much cheaper.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:03 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkie View Post
WWHHHHOOOOOOO BOY!!

Bob
Uh oh....don't get me skeert , Bob


truth is, if it gets to be too big a PITA to me, (trimin' and chanferin') I'll find a way to buy a case or three a year and call it good

..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:58 PM
Jack_Stiles Jack_Stiles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 464
Good luck. Mine has already gone back once, the "Fixed" pistol fired 22 rounds before getting a case stuck and stopped working completely. They can either fix the pistol or fix their ammo issues. But to me these 22 TCM guns are complete turds. I refuse to buy reloading equipment for a gun that doesn't work.

We pulled all Rock Islands from the shelves at work because the current QC is lacking. We don't want to deal with the upset customers.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-05-2015, 02:45 AM
bflying bflying is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,786
TCM trouble in paradise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Stiles View Post
Good luck. Mine has already gone back once, the "Fixed" pistol fired 22 rounds before getting a case stuck and stopped working completely. They can either fix the pistol or fix their ammo issues. But to me these 22 TCM....

That's ironic. . 22 rounds. . I've been eyeing the TCM for some time now, but have hesitated because I don't really want a work project. But still have that nagging desire to just go for it. I would definitely need dies to afford really having fun with it. But again hesitate full reloading head rig for just one gun. Because of some of the mixed reviews, I'm still dragging my feet. Now if one were to be made by S&W with e-series level of machining, I'd probably be all over it.

Hope the OP gets things worked out and running smooth. Loading bottlenecks are really no biggie except for the trimming.....that's a pain in the bum. But hopefully that'll only need to be done every 4-5 loadings.

Good luck. I'm still watching these threads trying to convince myself that's it's time to pull the trigger on a new caliber.
__________________
--------------
Rather Bflying
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:00 AM
silvermane_1 silvermane_1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Burien, WA
Posts: 62
is this a strictly TCM 1911, or the one with the 9mm bbl?, because if it is one of the 9mm/22TCM models, and if the 9mm runs flawless in it then it's almost worth the TCM headache, because i would just run 9mm in it until the TCM ammo situation improves.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:03 AM
Sgt Vic Sgt Vic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 905
Sounds like a good idea. stick with the 9mm
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:15 AM
cbrobertson cbrobertson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 55
WELL!! I have only fired 10 rounds from my TCM. (currently cannot see well enough to shoot, cataracts, surgery scheduled)
I bought it as an 'accessory' to the 9mm, which I really wanted, only $20.00 more. Was totally unaware of all the problems encountered above, and reloading dies will be delivered Monday, 06-Apr-15. Will be checking the case dimensions before stuffing powder & bullets in them. Too bad nobody makes a case length gauge for this round.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:36 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
wellhell

if it's a temperamental/fussy rnd (sounds like it is, maybe) I can deal with that IF the formula that runs right can be found.

if i have to handload to achieve Nirvana , I will..case trimming notwithstanding.



Quote:
I haven't had issues with reloads. I trim my cases before I reload them.

what length do you trim to, Pmiya?
and how many rnds do you generally shoot in a range session?



Quote:
Mine has already gone back once,
Jack, do you know what they did?
Obviously it didn't cure the ills, but what did they say they did?



I'm sure not ready to give up on the cartridge.
But I'm not sure i want a pistol I have to clean the chamber two three TEN times in ONE range session
(it's nothing for me to shoot a couple/three hundred rnds an outing)



Thanks all


..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:42 AM
sandog75 sandog75 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 280
Long or oversize ammo is usually the culprit. My .22 TCM sometimes balks at the first round fired at a range session, but then works flawlessly with all the remaining rounds. And the same happens with my 9mm barrel installed. I am going to polish the chamber using the FlexHone stuff. I have used it before for rough revolver chambers. One of their brushes is put into a cordless drill with some of the FlexHone oil on it. The oil comes in a pint can along with the appropriate caliber brush. You could also do the same with a cleaning mop on a short rod and put some jewelers rouge or the like on it. I polished up my feed ramp a bit smoother as well with some jewelers rouge on a felt bob in the Dremel.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:45 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermane_1 View Post
is this a strictly TCM 1911, or the one with the 9mm bbl?, because if it is one of the 9mm/22TCM models, and if the 9mm runs flawless in it then it's almost worth the TCM headache, because i would just run 9mm in it until the TCM ammo situation improves.

It's a 9mm too.
But it has nose dive issues.
Got those mostly squared away..but i already have a 9mm 1911.
I don't have much interest in another...and in particular, a finicky one that needs specific ammo and tuned mags to run.

I can put up with that for TCM , but not 9mm when i already have lots of guns chambered in 9 that run fine


..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:53 AM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 168
anything over 1.025 case length runs the risk of jamming in the chamber.
armscor brass that comes from ammo supply warehouse is all over the place dimensionally
long cases ,under size necks etc etc . I've even found ones that will not fit in a shell holder as the extractor groove was not cut deep enough
the new brass needs screening , sizing and trimming before you can even think of loading it .and even with all of the above straightened out the TCM likes to run a really wet ............
but reloads in the 10.5-11.0 grain range of H110 powder are far more reliable and accurate than the factory garbage
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-05-2015, 08:20 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
Quote:
even with all of the above straightened out the TCM likes to run a really wet
Thanks Rocky
But lube isn't problem here .
The pistol is smooth and feeds TCM fine.

if handloading will keep me in the pink, I can live with that.
I'll buy or make a mechanized case trimmer to ease the PITA factor.

We'll see Monday if the Pi made ammo is more consistent than the US made.
(I have 250rnds of each coming Monday)
and have already shot 100 rnds of US made (with appx 20% of it getting stuck in the chamber)

I know from 38 Super experience that Pi made Armscor is different than US made Armscor ...I'd say the Pi made is better.
Hopefully it will be so with TCM too



..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-05-2015, 08:36 AM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 168
cappi she likes a couple drops of gun oil in the chamber every now and then .

it's the same when loading bottleneck cases , no lube = YOU WILL STICK A CASE IN THE SIZING DIE
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-05-2015, 09:09 AM
1911rocks 1911rocks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,201
Little Crow World's finest Trimmer II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
Thanks Rocky
But lube isn't problem here .
The pistol is smooth and feeds TCM fine.

if handloading will keep me in the pink, I can live with that.
I'll buy or make a mechanized case trimmer to ease the PITA factor.

We'll see Monday if the Pi made ammo is more consistent than the US made.
(I have 250rnds of each coming Monday)
and have already shot 100 rnds of US made (with appx 20% of it getting stuck in the chamber)

I know from 38 Super experience that Pi made Armscor is different than US made Armscor ...I'd say the Pi made is better.
Hopefully it will be so with TCM too

..L.T.A.
Little Crow makes a Collet for the World's Finest Case Trimmer II. These things are GREAT. http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft%20usa.html#wft2
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-05-2015, 10:04 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911rocks View Post
Little Crow makes a Collet for the World's Finest Case Trimmer II. These things are GREAT. http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft%20usa.html#wft2
excellent..Thanks Rocks!!


did some google searches .
Found a lot of info (much of it from here)

stuck cases are pretty common...sure seems to be related to case length too..at least in part

Seems the guys that reload (and trim) don't have the issues like the factory ammo.
Also saw Steve's (Harley hopper) post about using a case and fine lapping compound.
Did that cure the stuck case issue with all factory ammo, Steve??

I just measured a box of US made ammo.
Most was 1.025 case length ...but plenty was over that.
I separated the longer than 1.025 .
Gonna run out back and pop off some rnds

be back in a little while to share my findings


..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-05-2015, 10:16 AM
pmiya pmiya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 118
I've been trimming the cases to 1.020. I use a trimmer similar to "The World's Fastest Trimmer". I it's called a Dead On Trimmer, made by a guy in Magna, UT. I use it in a drill press, I've seen where guys are using these type of trimmers in hand drills.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-05-2015, 10:53 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,686
ran 50 (all i had left)

had 2 stuck.
one measures 1.035 the other is 1.030
Mic'd a handful of the others that extracted
Most are 1.025, a couple at 1.028.

Started with a pristine clean (and felt polished) chamber.
I purposely loaded one of the longest ones in the first mag ...it extracted .


had the first FTE at appx 25 rnds
Second one came near the end of 50


conclusion? ...don't have one...with the exception of the two FTE cases are most certainly substantially longer than the others .
No difference in case diameter though (no bulges) with those compared to the others



..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-05-2015, 01:53 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Winder, Ga
Posts: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
excellent..Thanks Rocks!!


did some google searches .
Found a lot of info (much of it from here)

stuck cases are pretty common...sure seems to be related to case length too..at least in part

Seems the guys that reload (and trim) don't have the issues like the factory ammo.
Also saw Steve's (Harley hopper) post about using a case and fine lapping compound.
Did that cure the stuck case issue with all factory ammo, Steve??

I just measured a box of US made ammo.
Most was 1.025 case length ...but plenty was over that.
I separated the longer than 1.025 .
Gonna run out back and pop off some rnds

be back in a little while to share my findings


..L.T.A.


Cappi, I had thought about getting the Flexhone as was mentioned above but along the same lines, I got the longest case I had at the time, drilled out the primer and made a lapping tool. I DO NOT recommend anyone doing this. I'm quiet sure the warranty would be voided. I sincerely believe that helped my situation. I probably have in excess of 1500 rds now and the last 1000 have been trouble free in the stuck case issue.
It is odd that on my initial shoot, I had received a shipment of 250rds (3 different lot#'s) before the gun arrived from. Olympus. Odd because I grabbed a box that was extremely long. The thread Pmiya mentioned got me to looking at lot#'s. I tried a different lot and it ran flawless.
The only real issue I have now seems to be going from 9mm to .22tcm and using the same extractor. The cases are not stuck, they simply fall out, but the extractor has to be pulled and retensioned. I plan on getting a better extractor. Do 't give up on it. When your ammo comes in, see how many lots you have on the American stuff and give each lot a try. Anxsious to hear how the Philli stuff runs. Hopefully some of this rambling makes sense.
Just note, lapping will be on you. I would do it again on mine. Just saying.

Last edited by harleyhopper; 04-05-2015 at 02:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-05-2015, 04:39 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Winder, Ga
Posts: 606


What's not to like? 3/8" steel at 25yds. Cappi, you asked how many rds in an outing? I can't seem to take enough. I shot as many as 200 one day but usually just take a couple of boxes. I seem to have some on the way at any given time from ammoseek and my plan is to start reloading when I retire in a few yrs. 2 boxes will go VERY fast. Steve
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-05-2015, 06:59 PM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 74
I've got two TCMs - a full size and a mid-size. The FS had issues with stuck cases occasionally for the first 150 rounds or so - the stuck cases were longer (1.03+) but not all long cases stuck. The MS has had a single stuck case out of the second magazine I shot with the same lots of factory ammo. Despite these findings, I'm convinced that the root cause of the stuck case issue is the ammo, not the gun. I found very significant reduction (to virtually none) on stuck cases by thoroughly cleaning the chamber and the chamber/bore transition with an AR chamber brush and by running a bore snake through the gun after every couple of magazines fired for the first 300-400 rounds. Read your manual - RIA says that it will take 500 rounds to 'break in' this gun. They aren't kidding about this. Both my guns now have over 500 rounds through them and I've not had a stuck case in a good while. If you check the other threads about this issue, it seems that pretty much everyone who is reloading the TCM does NOT have this stuck case issue - likely because most folks trim the cases to the proper length.

So don't give up on the TCMs - put some effort into keeping it clean and put rounds through it. It will most likely get to running a whole lot better.

Last edited by swmp9jrm; 04-05-2015 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved