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  #26  
Old 10-21-2014, 04:33 PM
pmiya pmiya is offline
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As noted in earlier posts my slide had also been replaced due to improper machining. Shooting Armscor ammo has been hit and miss as far as extraction problems. I kept all of the cases that failed to extract separate from those that functioned. I noted that the cases that failed to extract were longer than those that extracted. If the over length cases are engaging throated portion of the barrel they could be causing the mouth of the case to "crimp" the bullet and hold it in place causing a spike in the pressure when the round is fired.

With my reloads I size and trim the cases. I haven't had any extraction issues with the reloaded ammo. I don't try to get the maximum velocity out of my loads, I found that the accuracy is best at around 1950 FPS.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2014, 06:37 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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I'm also leaning towards the over-long cases being the culprit with the FTE as opposed to over-charged powder. Although I did have one round of factory ammo blow the primer out in my gun. I didn't think to save the jammed cases for later study, but I have put the calipers on a box of factory and found some case lengths as long as 1.040" (trim length I'm going by is 1.024") before firing. I also have had zero failures with my reloads, and am also using a tamer plinking load. I won't put the factory ammo in my gun until I hear something from Armscor about a fix on the problem.
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2014, 06:54 PM
WA1EMT WA1EMT is offline
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Well folks seems that armscor isnt going to take this seriously. I posted the warning on there facebook page and 2 people who work for armscor and the president of armscor have not only responded with the tone that I am full of **** but no one has emailed me back from last nights email requesting a return ups lable so I can ship them the ammo and gun. Guess when it comes to this issue there going to play it off.
What a shame.
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:15 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Yeah, that is a shame, but in spite of what their response on facebook was, I kinda imagine they're looking real close at the ammo situation. I got plenty of their unfired factory ammo here with the over-length cases, just don't know for sure if that's the problem.

I like the gun, I like the round, and I'm having good success with my reloads. I've already made the decision not to shoot any more of the factory stuff, and I guess I'll just make that a permanent arrangement.
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:06 PM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
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I'll add my thoughts here. My TCM has about 500 rounds through it at this point - both Philippines produced and US produced. I, too, found that all of the cases that stuck were long after being fired, but the bulk of them were longer than average prior to firing - I was actually able to predict most of the ones that stuck (had them marked). I don't discount that there could be some rounds that are a bit hot, but I think a combination of long cases and new gun have created the problem. The last 100 rounds I've shot have been trouble free - a box of each manufacturing location. RIA does say that this gun needs to be broken in with several hundred rounds. I agree with that, and have found that mine has become more reliable with higher round count.

There is also rumored to be a magazine issue, with the last round not loading. My brother had a chance to talk to Martin Tuason a few weeks ago, and told him about this issue with some magazines we had just bought. Martin offered to make the situation right. I have some magazines from the same order, so decided to do a test: I loaded them fully and left them for about a week, then shot them - no issues whatsoever, so I'm satisfied with them. These rounds were among the last two boxes I've shot.

So while I don't doubt there are some folks who are having problems, I am almost at the point where I feel comfortable counting this TCM as reliable for protection. The reason I got this gun is for my wife, who has a difficult time with racking the slide on a gun with a stout recoil spring. I'll put at least another 250 rounds through it before I'm fully convinced, but I'm pretty confident that this gun is as good as any I own for SHTF situations.

The ammo, however, needs to be more consistent in case length. I just bought another 1,000 rounds of US produced TCM, so I'll do some measuring to see if there has been any improvement. Don't have a lot of data as yet, but I do think the US produced ammo is a bit better than the Philippines produced ammo.
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  #31  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:08 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
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And now for the new TCM owner with 250 rds of Armscor ammo....
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2014, 12:08 PM
WA1EMT WA1EMT is offline
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Well after 120 comments on the unofficial armscor facebook page they finally sent an email with the shipping labels for the gun and ammo.
Too little too late.
No one responded to my post on there official facebook page.
So I am selling it and will not buy another gun from them.
I will be getting a 9mm 1911 but to trust a gun with known issues for protection is totally retarded and will do nothing but get you killed.
Anyone want to buy it.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2014, 02:31 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA1EMT View Post
Well after 120 comments on the unofficial armscor facebook page they finally sent an email with the shipping labels for the gun and ammo.
Too little too late.
No one responded to my post on there official facebook page.
So I am selling it and will not buy another gun from them.
I will be getting a 9mm 1911 but to trust a gun with known issues for protection is totally retarded and will do nothing but get you killed.
Anyone want to buy it.
I hate to see ya come to that decision, but can fully understand your dis-satisfaction. To be honest, similar thoughts have crossed my mind. If ya'd take a suggestion from an old guy: go ahead and send it back to them. It won't cost ya anything, ya might get reimbursed for the ammo, and the gun would get the complimentary performance tune-up. If ya want to sell it, that would give ya a selling point with a prospective buyer.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2014, 02:34 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swmp9jrm View Post
..... I just bought another 1,000 rounds of US produced TCM, so I'll do some measuring to see if there has been any improvement. Don't have a lot of data as yet, but I do think the US produced ammo is a bit better than the Philippines produced ammo.
I'd be real curious to know what ya find. Please post your observations, lot numbers, etc.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2014, 07:29 PM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmmeyer View Post
I'd be real curious to know what ya find. Please post your observations, lot numbers, etc.
I've got about 300 rounds of Philippines TCM and the new US product that I just got. I'm going to measure at least a couple hundred of each and do some statistics on the case lengths. I'll post the results.
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  #36  
Old 10-25-2014, 12:26 AM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
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I ask how you know where the ammo comes from and the lot number. I got 5 boxes from Advance Tach and have another5 boxes coming from Munire Arms. The 1st box I shot was virtually trouble free on my newly acquired gun. The 2nd box started failing to extract. I had to actually pry the case out with a wood orange stick. All the boxes have the same barcode label but nothing else. Please advise, Steve
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  #37  
Old 10-25-2014, 10:14 AM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Not sure what the Ph ammo looks like, but the made in USA has the Armscor shield printed on the front of the box with a small rocker under that with "USA" printed in it. The lot # is printed on the inside of one of the end flaps on the box. Sounds like you're having the same problems the rest of us are having. If ya have a set of calipers, put it on the unfired ammo, and check the case length, from the base of the case up to the mouth of the case. It will be difficult to measure that, with the projectile in the way, but try to get the caliper just on the very edge of the rim, so you can get a rough idea. The trim length of the case should be 1.024". I'm betting that you'll see case lengths much longer than that, and it would seem that those are the ones failing to extract. Use a sharpie and mark some of the ammo as to right length and too-long, and see if you can tell the difference when shooting.

Check your lot numbers, printed inside the end flap. If ya have all the same lot, it will probably all be the same. If ya have different lot numbers, check the ammo in each lot and see if maybe a newer lot of ammo has the over-length problem taken care of.

For knocking the stuck cases out, cut yourself a piece of wooden dowel, about 2" longer than your barrel and stick that in your shirt pocket. I used the wooden BBQ skewers that are made out of bamboo and small enough diameter to drop down the barrel. When ya have a FTE, lock the slide back, tip the barrel up, drop the wooden dowel down the bore, eject your mag and tap the dowel with the mag to knock the case free. PULL THE WOODEN DOWEL OUT AND PUT IT BACK IN YOUR POCKET. Reinsert your mag, rack the slide, and you're back in business. I call it the TCM tap-rack drill, and I've gotten pretty good at it.
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  #38  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:13 PM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
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Here's a pic of both TCM packaging. The lot number is on the inside flap on one end.

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  #39  
Old 10-25-2014, 04:24 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
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Thanks guys. I definitely have the US made. I have both a Teflon an aluminum rod already cut to length I plan on taking next time. I have calipers and will measure some out of each box and check the lot#`s,too.

One thing I did NOT do on the initial cleaning that I read after the fact. It said to run a 9mm brass brush in the chamber and a .22 brush in the bore. I simply used a swab. I am fixing to do this. Steve
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  #40  
Old 10-25-2014, 04:30 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Mine came with the barrel and chamber coated with a very thick, sticky black grease. Took a couple treatments of solvent to get it all out. Keep at it till you're sure its sparkly clean.
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  #41  
Old 10-25-2014, 05:13 PM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyhopper View Post
One thing I did NOT do on the initial cleaning that I read after the fact. It said to run a 9mm brass brush in the chamber and a .22 brush in the bore. I simply used a swab. I am fixing to do this. Steve
I've found that an AR-15 chamber brush works really well on the chamber to barrel transition area. I clean this area after every shoot, and the stuck cases have dwindled to nothing at this point.
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  #42  
Old 10-25-2014, 06:39 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
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Right or wrong, not only did I do the 9mm brass brush on the chamber with solvent, I put some metal polish on some paper towel, formed it like a large q-tip on a wooden dowel and polished inside the chamber by twirling it. When I pulled it out, the paper towel was coned shaped like the chamber and pretty black. Didn't remove metal, just shined it up. Got the extracor out this time. Claw looked OK. Boy that thing has some tension. It holds a live round good so the failure to extract was not related to the extractor. Just case expansion. We'll see how the cleaning and polish did real soon.
Also, the range I've been going to says no brass pick up. So, the first box was thrown in the trash there. Don't know what the lot #was. The remaining 4 boxes, 3 have the same lot# and the last has a different #. The 5 boxes from MunireArms should be here Mon or Tues. Steve
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  #43  
Old 10-25-2014, 06:44 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
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Should add that I measured several cases out of each box. Some were 1.024 and quiet a few at 1.025 . That's close. Didn't run across really long like you've found. Steve
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  #44  
Old 10-25-2014, 07:18 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Originally Posted by harleyhopper View Post
Should add that I measured several cases out of each box. Some were 1.024 and quiet a few at 1.025 . That's close. Didn't run across really long like you've found. Steve
That's good news, maybe Armscor has tightened up their specs on the case length. Anything shorter than about 1.030 shouldn't give you any problems. I didn't start getting consistent FTE till it got up past 1.035 or so.
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  #45  
Old 10-25-2014, 07:39 PM
harleyhopper harleyhopper is offline
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I can't wait to see if the cleaning and polishing of the chamber helped.
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  #46  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:02 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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Originally Posted by harleyhopper View Post
I can't wait to see if the cleaning and polishing of the chamber helped.
Be sure to give us a FULL report. We all want to know.
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  #47  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:25 PM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
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Here's a quick analysis of 100 rounds each of Philippine and US TCM. Lot # for the Philippine is 04120513 and lot # for the US is 32414. The Philippine produced TCM shows a significantly wider range of case lengths. The longest of the US was 1.028 and of the Philippines was 1.031.


Last edited by swmp9jrm; 10-25-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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  #48  
Old 10-25-2014, 09:11 PM
wmmeyer wmmeyer is offline
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That looks excellent, if we've identified the problem correctly. Thanks for your hard work. I would assume the USA product was recently produced, and as long as any ammo we buy is made after that, we should be sure of having the problem fixed. Hopefully. I just wish Armscor would chime in on the topic with some assurances. I can understand why they wouldn't want to, but it would be nice.
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  #49  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:12 PM
MANual_puller MANual_puller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_22 View Post
That's a shame. The 9mm barrel is what pushed me over the top to buy the TCM. I figured that if the 22TCM round fell out of favor, or if I couldn't get ammo, then I'd always still have a 9mm 1911.
Bingo! I absolutely agree! I found an older version with both extractors sitting new on the shelf last week and bought it. Shot it today and couldn't get the 22 tcm to extract very well with either extractor . In 9 mm it ran like a champ with both extractors... I was wondering if the 22 barrel being tapered to a smaller outside diameter might be causing the problem. The rounds would start to come, some 1/8", before sticking. It's almost like the barrel is wiggling as the slide barrel bushing gets back to the tapered portion of the barrel maybe causing the extractor clip to slip off the casing? The only reason I believe that this might be the problem is because the casings that failed to extract had all definitely come out some before sticking. The 9mm barrel is a constant outside diameter the whole length and definitely wiggles far less than the tapered 22tcm barrel when I release the slide spring tension and pull the slide back 1/2 way. Is anyone else seeing this with their weapon too? I'm very impressed with the tcm round itself but I need it to operate reliably before I can carry it. Thanks in advance for any insight!
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  #50  
Old 02-23-2015, 09:16 AM
swmp9jrm swmp9jrm is offline
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I'm still convinced that the stuck case issue isn't an extractor problem. Every time I've had a stuck case, when I do get it out of the barrel there is an extractor sized chunk taken out of the rim. I believe that the shape of the case and the shape of the chamber, bore, and the transition between the two for some reason allows blow-by that carbons up that transition and causes the sticking. Over time, this tendency seems to go away. My FS TCM double stack now has 600+ rounds through it, and I have not had a stuck case in at least the last 150 rounds. My new MS single stack has had only a single stuck case - it was the second round of the third magazine through the gun. From that point on, I ran a bore snake through the barrel after each magazine - no stuck cases through the next 100 rounds. Last time out, I ran the bore snake through after each two magazines - no stuck cases. About 250 rounds through the MS at this point (both US and Philippine sourced) without any stuck cases after that first one. I am now running a test to see how long I can go without using the AR-15 chamber brush to clean the MS, using only the bore snake - want to see how long the good performance lasts.

Just wish I could find some H110 powder so this testing wouldn't cost so much!!!
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