DW Valor jams at 200 rounds between cleanings - 1911Forum
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  #1  
Old 03-10-2020, 09:20 PM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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DW Valor jams at 200 rounds between cleanings

I have put 1,150 rounds through my DW Valor. I decided to check its reliability to see how far it would go between cleanings up to 500 rounds. The gun was cleaned and heavily lubricated before starting and the lube checked between sessions. I shot Federal American Eagle 230 grain FMJ exclusively. Magazines were Wilson Combat ETM.

I started at round 551 and the gun jammed with a failure to chamber ( http://sightm1911.com/lib/tech/malfunction.htm ) at round 750 (round #200 of the test). From rounds 800-900 (rounds 250-350 of the test), it had eight additional failures. I stopped the test there, scrubbed and lubricated the gun, and replaced the action spring with an 18.5# Wolff spring.

I then did a function check using mixed ammo. One FTF occurred on Blazer Aluminum round 1,000-1,050. The next 200 rounds, Speer Lawman and Blazer Brass, were fine.

What do I need to change on this gun to make it less sensitive to dirt? I would prefer it be able to get through at least 500 rounds.

Last edited by tomrkba; 03-10-2020 at 09:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2020, 09:51 PM
Jason D Jason D is offline
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Uh..... Keep the gun clean and lubricated.

Stop introducing mixed variables by mixing ammo. Stick with good quality brass cased ammo. You can find that some guns will be finicky with aluminum or steel cased ammo.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2020, 09:59 PM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason D View Post
Uh..... Keep the gun clean and lubricated.

Stop introducing mixed variables by mixing ammo. Stick with good quality brass cased ammo. You can find that some guns will be finicky with aluminum or steel cased ammo.
The purpose was to see how far it would go since most training classes use 300-600 rounds per day.

1) Gun was well lubricated throughout the test. It was checked between sessions.
2) Ammo for the test was only Federal American Eagle.
3) The test ended when the spring was changed. Subsequent shooting after the action spring change used mixed ammo because that is usually what is typically available at ranges. It was not part of the test and only one jam occurred. I know Blazer Aluminum is questionable.

Last edited by tomrkba; 03-10-2020 at 10:10 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:03 AM
pat_jones pat_jones is offline
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Were you using grease or oil on the rails? If oil, was it applied immediately before shooting?

With a high quality grease a thousand rounds or more between cleanings shouldn't be a problem. Oil may require reapplication.

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  #5  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:16 AM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is online now
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Obviously its pretty tight.

David
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:29 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Your particular DW was not built with enough clearances to run that many rounds without a field strip and cleaning. The GI M1911 and M1911A1 were/are denigrated as rattle traps but were built to function with minimal field service. There is a chance that adding a synthetic grease to the rails and barrel bushing may extend your round count. Stronger than normal recoil springs installed to fix a symptom are usually addressing a build issue. For instance the barrel may need to be finish reamed.
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Last edited by Jolly Rogers; 03-11-2020 at 06:32 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:56 AM
msauter msauter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
Stronger than normal recoil springs installed to fix a symptom are usually addressing a build issue.
Joe
I believe the 18.5# recoil spring is standard on the DW Valor.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:11 AM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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1) Grease slows the slide down ON THIS GUN and causes jams.
2) Militech-1 was used before and during the test. It was “wet” the entire time.
3) 18.5# action spring is DW standard.
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  #9  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:29 AM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is online now
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FP-10 is the called for lube by Dan Wesson. It works great for me.

I have a Gold cup with Kart barrel and Accurails. It will go about 100 rounds then needs fresh lube. Accurails company also recommend FP-10.

Enjoy your gun. It will loosen up a little in time.
I have a Valor with over 5,000 rounds and it perfect. It does not malfunction.

David
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  #10  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:33 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
. . . the 18.5# recoil spring is standard on the DW Valor . . .
Several manufacturers ship their 5" pistols with 18.5lb recoil springs. The reason is that such a strong spring reduces the possibility of a malfunction caused by poor parts fitting or out of spec ammo. Any correctly built 1911 using good ammo and good magazines will run with very light springs.

I've gone all the way down to an 8lb Wolff recoil spring just as a test before forward slide movement got sluggish. I usually use 14lb recoil springs in 5" 1911s with standard pressure factory ammo and reloads.

Ignoring my anecdotal story, the point is that heavier than standard weight recoil springs are not needed to make a correctly fit 1911 run.
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  #11  
Old 03-11-2020, 08:21 AM
Bob Rockefeller Bob Rockefeller is offline
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Can you post a picture of the jam? I'd like to see how far into the chamber, if at all, the round goes before binding up the slide traveling forward.
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  #12  
Old 03-11-2020, 08:26 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Right, need pictures.

Is this a 5" or 4.25" gun? If 5" I agree with Jolly Rogers, a heavy spring to cram a round into an undersize chamber or up a steep ramp is a bandaid.
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:32 AM
CoolE CoolE is offline
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I would bet the extractor is just a tad tight and may need a tweak.
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:36 AM
4110mm 4110mm is offline
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You are using a very very fine 1911 for an application that is not it's strength. There are many other guns out there like the P226 that can do a tac session blasting off 600 rounds of junk steel/alu cased ammo downrange better.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:08 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
1) Grease slows the slide down ON THIS GUN and causes jams.
2) Militech-1 was used before and during the test. It was ďwetĒ the entire time.
3) 18.5# action spring is DW standard.
Are you lubng it during your sessions?? My Baer TRS is going close to 9000 failure free rounds without cleaning it. But I'm lubng it about every 150 - 200 rounds. Trying to get to 10k......at which point I'm going to break down and give the ole gal a good scrubbin......
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  #16  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:18 AM
Magnumite Magnumite is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4110mm View Post
You are using a very very fine 1911 for an application that is not it's strength. There are many other guns out there like the P226 that can do a tac session blasting off 600 rounds of junk steel/alu cased ammo downrange better.
my 1911ís didnít get this memo
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  #17  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:40 AM
Big Pete10 Big Pete10 is offline
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Maybe you would be better off with an old loosey goosey Colt than a tightly fitted DW. That or keep it clean. They say Glocks don't have to be cleaned.
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  #18  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:46 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
1) Grease slows the slide down ON THIS GUN and causes jams.
2) Militech-1 was used before and during the test. It was ďwetĒ the entire time.
3) 18.5# action spring is DW standard.
I have 2 greases that when applied sparingly donít slow down my guns. A discontinued ( unfortunately ) Dave Berryhill grease and a thin Superlube variety. I still donít see any benefit to a 18.5 lb recoil spring regardless of a particular brands OE. Any spring rate added to the system to overcome a fitting issue just batters the lower lugs , slide stop pin and frame holes. Depending on where the round is at the stoppage, I suspect an incorrectly prepped extractor or a barrel that needs to be finish reamed.
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  #19  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:49 AM
Bob Rockefeller Bob Rockefeller is offline
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I don't think this is about lubrication or "tightly fit" 1911s. Many, many members here can attest to that.

Something is not quite right about the gun. Pictures will help. There are plenty of very knowledgeable 1911 guys on this forum (not me) that can help.
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:11 PM
AlchemyCustom AlchemyCustom is offline
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Your issue is not one of keeping things clean or properly lubricated. Your issue is likely one of the following three:

1.) Barrel timing/possible barrel bump (proper link setup and clearance)
2.) Extractor tune/setup (proper deflection as well as tune)
3.) Feed ramp depth/barrel ramp and throat area. (ramp is cut to proper depth with correct setback and proper throating)

These are the areas that I would address before I look elsewhere. Also, change your mainspring to a 23# mainspring with a 16# recoil spring to establish a baseline of a proper setup for a 5" 1911. These are the rates initially intended for the platform. Deviating from the mainspring weight radically (as some do) can cause a slide to unlock and cycle too quickly for even the most heavily sprung magazine to keep up with. You cannot make up the difference with a recoil spring.
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  #21  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:38 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msauter View Post
I believe the 18.5# recoil spring is standard on the DW Valor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
...
3) 18.5# action spring is DW standard.
DW makes a fine gun, but they are wrong on this point. See the two posts below for the straight skinny on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
Several manufacturers ship their 5" pistols with 18.5lb recoil springs. The reason is that such a strong spring reduces the possibility of a malfunction caused by poor parts fitting or out of spec ammo. Any correctly built 1911 using good ammo and good magazines will run with very light springs.

I've gone all the way down to an 8lb Wolff recoil spring just as a test before forward slide movement got sluggish. I usually use 14lb recoil springs in 5" 1911s with standard pressure factory ammo and reloads.

Ignoring my anecdotal story, the point is that heavier than standard weight recoil springs are not needed to make a correctly fit 1911 run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
Your issue is not one of keeping things clean or properly lubricated. Your issue is likely one of the following three:

1.) Barrel timing/possible barrel bump (proper link setup and clearance)
2.) Extractor tune/setup (proper deflection as well as tune)
3.) Feed ramp depth/barrel ramp and throat area. (ramp is cut to proper depth with correct setback and proper throating)

These are the areas that I would address before I look elsewhere. Also, change your mainspring to a 23# mainspring with a 16# recoil spring to establish a baseline of a proper setup for a 5" 1911. These are the rates initially intended for the platform. Deviating from the mainspring weight radically (as some do) can cause a slide to unlock and cycle too quickly for even the most heavily sprung magazine to keep up with. You cannot make up the difference with a recoil spring.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:06 PM
july19 july19 is online now
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I have a V-Bob with a chamber tighter than my CCC and my GI NNC’s but it’s never failed once, let alone at 200 rounds. That particular pistol has never shot a factory round. Did you plunk the ammo you used?
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:26 PM
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Tim Burke Tim Burke is offline
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I was going to comment, but I see other, more knowledgeable members have made my points and gone further than I could have.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2020, 12:18 PM
Robin Hood Robin Hood is offline
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Speer Lawman is some clean stuff. That’s my practice round of preference. A lot cleaner than Winchester. I can’t even imagine not cleaning between 500 rounds. I clean every 50.

I had one of those ramped 3” Kimber Ultras and the stupid thing would stop feeding after the ramp got dirtied up at 50 rounds. It was nuts accurate and ejected well, but that stupid ramp/recoil system is just a poor design in general. Really? They had to cut off that last .5”? I’ve built quite a few NON ramped 3.5” .45’s with barrel bushing and never have had one malfunction in any of them. I don’t understand how any malfunctions can occur in a 1911 .45 when built correctly. They’ve always run so smooth, like glass.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:33 AM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
Your issue is not one of keeping things clean or properly lubricated. Your issue is likely one of the following three:

1.) Barrel timing/possible barrel bump (proper link setup and clearance)
2.) Extractor tune/setup (proper deflection as well as tune)
3.) Feed ramp depth/barrel ramp and throat area. (ramp is cut to proper depth with correct setback and proper throating)

These are the areas that I would address before I look elsewhere. Also, change your mainspring to a 23# mainspring with a 16# recoil spring to establish a baseline of a proper setup for a 5" 1911. These are the rates initially intended for the platform. Deviating from the mainspring weight radically (as some do) can cause a slide to unlock and cycle too quickly for even the most heavily sprung magazine to keep up with. You cannot make up the difference with a recoil spring.


The gun was cleaned and lubricated with Militech-1. It was "wet". It was lubricated between sessions.

Ramp appears to have that 1/32" (or whatever it is) "ledge".

I will buy a 23# spring and test with both a 16 and 23 pound spring.
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