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  #1  
Old 03-08-2020, 10:38 PM
Matty424 Matty424 is offline
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SA Range Officer Operator .45 Shooting High

Hey guys new to the forum and basically wondering if I am doing something wrong. Got a new RA operator a week ago. Field stripped and lubed it. Have put about 300 rounds through it. I have been shooting about 10-15 yards out and notice I am hitting my target high. Maybe about 2-3”. I am using 230 grain ammo and have used Magtech and sellier&bellot. I know I’m new to 1911s and I understand that the pistol I have is supposed to be sighted for 6 o clock and maybe poi at 25 yards? Still a little confused about that. Just thought I would be more accurate at close range. Is this normal? I have been using the 6 o clock hold. Could it be the 230 grain. I know I haven’t shot it enough just a little disappointed early. Can someone give me some advice. I would appreciate it. My name is Matt and I’m a 34 y/o firefighter from Philadelphia.
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2020, 11:30 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is online now
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Trajectory for POA (Point of Aim) at 25 yards would make POI (Point of Impact) with a 6 o'clock hold in the 10 rings.

10-15 yards changes your POA in order to hit the same POI.

The POI for two different brands can be different, so you've got a number of variables.

And that's not even taking into consideration what my range buddies give me grief for which in my case is the JOT (Jerk On Trigger). ;-)









Also, I recently was talking to a "Young Newbie" that didn't understand the term "6 o'clock hold" correctly.

He's never had an analog watch or clock and didn't grasp the concept correctly.

This pic might help clarify it for any "Newbies" reading this thread.

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Last edited by NonHyphenAmerican; 03-08-2020 at 11:38 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2020, 06:44 AM
Bob Rockefeller Bob Rockefeller is offline
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Those targets do look as if the pistol is hitting high. I zero my .45 1911s at 20 yards, use the Center Sight Alignment, and see very small elevation differences from 7 to 20 yards.

Because you're using pretty standard factory ammo, I'd be concerned that the sights are off. Have you contacted Springfield? If they agree with my assessment, they should be able to make it right.

If you don't want to mess with them, I've had good luck with Dawson and their sight height adjustment calculator:

https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-calculator/
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.45 ACP 1911s: Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Colt, Dan Wesson, Springfield, Build No. 1
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  #4  
Old 03-09-2020, 07:50 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Just for fun try putting some 185gr JHP down range using the same sight picture and distance to the target. You may find that they hit closer to your point of aim.
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  #5  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:17 PM
OttoLoader OttoLoader is offline
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The SA site shows the RO operator sights as fiber optic front and low profile combat style.
So a three dot style is presented. I would expect a combat hold. You could call SA to get their word on it.

There is enough variation in your target hits so try to eliminate by using a bench and sandbag

I would go back to the range and set up a sandbag or bench test and test out the sight picture and poa/poi.
Simple
Set up at 25 ft.
Rest the pistol level and shoot at a blank target.
Notice where the shot hit relative to the sight picture.
Now try out the six o'clock hold shooting at the first bullet holes on the target.
Also try the center hold
Third test the combat hold.


I have a loaded stainless three dot sights. Manufacter date 2014. But likely not set for a target Sox o'clock hold.
I did the same test as recommended by me.
Basic used a combat hold like a SIG.

RO are target style pistols so maybe they have the six o'clock hold.
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  #6  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:48 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Lowering the Point of Impact with a new RA .45 Operator

I always purchase handguns with adjustable rear sights, since a person can easily make corrections for variances in ammo bullet weights and velocities.

As Steve in Allentown mentioned try using some combat loads with 185 gr. bullets.....which are generally a higher velocity. These will usually shoot lower on the target, since the lighter recoil and higher velocity will allow the bullet to exit the muzzle before the slide and barrel lifts upward from recoil. The heavier and slower moving 230 gr. bullet has more "dwell time" in the barrel, which allows a higher arc of upward movement from recoil before it exits the barrel, and will hit higher on the target.....
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  #7  
Old 03-09-2020, 02:48 PM
pat_jones pat_jones is offline
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First, have someone else you trust shoot the gun and see what their results are.

With fixed rear sights you simply install a different height front sight. Dawson Precision has a sight height calculator on their website.

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  #8  
Old 03-09-2020, 03:56 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is online now
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I know this is the last resort but....what does the owners manual say about sight alighment?

Manufacturers have a standard protocol for setting up sights. If yours deviates, it might warrant a trip back to S/A!

But as others have said have another shooter with an "Expert" card shoot the thing.

If you shoot from sand bags do not rest the gun, rest your wrists! You want the gun to recoil naturally!

Smiles,
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Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 03-09-2020 at 03:59 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:08 PM
gunnut606 gunnut606 is offline
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IF you shoot consistent good groups, then change the loads or the sight until it hits where you want the way YOU aim, who cares how the other guys aim.

.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:52 PM
OttoLoader OttoLoader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
I know this is the last resort but....what does the owners manual say about sight alighment?

Manufacturers have a standard protocol for setting up sights. If yours deviates, it might warrant a trip back to S/A!

But as others have said have another shooter with an "Expert" card shoot the thing.

If you shoot from sand bags do not rest the gun, rest your wrists! You want the gun to recoil naturally!

Smiles,
Yes
Test with your hand or wrist on the sandbag. Use the sandbag to steady your hold.
Do not rest the pistol directly on the sandbag.

Last edited by OttoLoader; 03-09-2020 at 09:43 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2020, 09:17 PM
Matty424 Matty424 is offline
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Thanks for the replies. I shot another 100 rds today and really tried to sight my targets better. Shot a little better today. Another shooter gave it a try at 20 yds, and agreed it shoots high, thought he only shot 5 rds so I have to take that with a grain of salt. I’m going to put maybe another couple hundred rds through the pistol, see if I get any more accurate and if I still think it’s high I’m thinking about contacting Springfield to explain the situation. I’m used to center fire and always shoot good groups with my M9 so could be a learning curve for me. I appreciate the advice!!
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2020, 09:31 PM
Matty424 Matty424 is offline
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I’m going to go back tomorrow and try the sandbag like you guys have mentioned. Also My brother knows a guy working there with a lot of experience with 1911s. The manual says:

Shooters may use a POA sight picture at 25yds. This means that at 25yds the bullet should impact the target at the point visible at the top of the front sight. Shooters may also use 6 o clock sight picture to strike the center of the target. SA pistols are designed to use 6 o clock sight picture at 25yds. However, some pistols may shoot POA at 25yds depending on shooter and ammunition.

Don’t wanna sound like I’m complaining just starting to get really into shooting and I want to learn as much as I can. Thanks a lot for all of the help I need it.
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2020, 09:50 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is online now
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Is this word for word from the manual?

"Shooters may use a POA sight picture at 25yds. This means that at 25yds the bullet should impact the target at the point visible at the top of the front sight.

Shooters may also use 6 o clock sight picture to strike the center of the target. SA pistols are designed to use 6 o clock sight picture at 25yds.

However, some pistols may shoot POA at 25yds depending on shooter and ammunition."

I separated the sentences for clarity. It didn't work this is contradictory...SORRY!

It's no wonder this thing doesn't shoot where aimed it doesn't know what's goin' on either!

Smiles,
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 03-09-2020 at 09:53 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2020, 10:00 PM
Matty424 Matty424 is offline
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Yes this is word for word.
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:35 PM
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RickB RickB is offline
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Quote:
Shooters may also use 6 o clock sight picture to strike the center of the target. SA pistols are designed to use 6 o clock sight picture at 25yds.
6:00 on a target of what size?
If the target is 1" in diameter, then 1/2" above POA is correct for a 6:00 hold.
If the target is 6" in diameter, then impact 3" above POA dead on for 6:00 hold.
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