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  #26  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:24 PM
dep2386 dep2386 is offline
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I was on the Sig sight several months ago. They were selling 38 Super Barrels for $29.99. I picked one up. I learned that Sig is not making 38 Super 1911 any more.
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  #27  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:27 PM
midrat midrat is offline
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Took a look at Ed Brown's website and they are only offering 9/45/10mm, appears they dropped 38 Super. Les Baer, Nighthawk and Alchemy Custom are still offering 38Super.
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  #28  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:36 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Seems strange. With 9mm in the catalog, a .38 Super on special order would not be a lot of extra work. Likewise .460 vs .45. I can see not wanting to keep .40 slides around.
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  #29  
Old 02-28-2020, 02:19 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Collateral Damage?

If they are cancelling 460 Roland I guess we will not be able to do 45 to comped 45 conversions anymore in 5" unless we provide the barrel...If I recall correctly, for the 5" TE WC turned into a comped barrel for me, they started with the comped Roland barrel. I don't think they can use the 10mm for obvious reasons (BTW, does no more 40 S&W mean no more 10mm?)...What say you?

This will really sucks. I was looking to get one last 1911, kinda combining all my experience shooting with various guns over the last 10 years to do my best design (favorite everything including Xtac). My first preference was a 5" Super Grade in 38S and my second a 5" Custom-comp SG in 45.

It looks like I wll not be able to get either of these unless I put in a rush-order which I'm not incline to do right now.

I just can't see a 9 in 1911 (for many of the reasons striker mentioned above), and un-comped 45' are not as enjoyable after 300R as they use to be (mid 60's). I still shoot them in poly, but maybe 100R at a time.
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Last edited by combat auto; 02-28-2020 at 02:24 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:55 PM
azguy1911 azguy1911 is offline
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I talked to Nighthawk today, they hadn't heard about the Ed Brown, Wilson Combat news around 38 super and said they would be more committed than ever with them out of the game.
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  #31  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:25 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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^^^

Indeed. A good example of intangible or unintended consequences. Something that's not apparent from internal accounting numbers.

But I remain a Wilson enthusiast, albeit one who does not agree with this particular decision.
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:05 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy1911 View Post
I talked to Nighthawk today, they hadn't heard about the Ed Brown, Wilson Combat news around 38 super and said they would be more committed than ever with them out of the game.
That's good to hear.
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  #33  
Old 02-28-2020, 10:17 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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I also want a 9x25 gun but I guess with Wilson eliminating calibers instead of adding them I'll need to go with nighthawk
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  #34  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:07 AM
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J Scott J Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
If everyone who praises the 38 Super actually bought one, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I agree, TRS. When decisions like this are made, follow the money.
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  #35  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:53 AM
Lab4Us Lab4Us is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Scott View Post
I agree, TRS. When decisions like this are made, follow the money.
I get the “follow the money”, but certainly it can’t take up much space for some .38 super barrels and magazines? ...to provide your customers choices? I’m guessing (because I don’t know) that since 9mm and .38S can be interchanged in a single gun, that all other .38S parts will technically remain on hand?

It’s not my company so not my decision. Just seems odd to drive business to your competitors.

I ordered an additional four super Sentinel magazines since I’m guessing they’ll eventually be gone with the .38S Sentinels.
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  #36  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:29 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Wilson has a long history of responding to customer sentiment, including sentiments expressed in this sub-forum (e.g., sterling silver medallions, Commander versions).

While I don't expect an immediate reversal of this chambering discontinuation decision, which many/most of us here obviously do not applaud, I'd like to suggest that the input in this thread be reviewed and given further thought by Wilson. I don't think anyone here would think negatively about a future reversal of what many of us feel is not such a good decision.

I, for one, would soon begin planning a polished blued SG, with visible aesthetic nods towards JMB's original design, chambered in 38 Super.

---

There appears virtually no interest in 40S&W (hardly a surprise), but 38 Super (especially) and 460 Rowland both have a niche of customers.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 02-29-2020 at 09:48 AM.
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  #37  
Old 02-29-2020, 11:45 AM
Distant Thunder Distant Thunder is offline
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I'll echo the sentiment of many in saying that I'm just glad I got my Wilson 38 Supers when I did and plan to enjoy them for years to come.
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  #38  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:18 PM
spooky619 spooky619 is offline
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If 38 super is pretty much a reloaders cartridge at this point, what’s really the difference between it and 9mm loaded all the way up to 9 Major? 115 grains at 1550 FPS is no slouch, and pretty dang close to the hottest 38 super loads.
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  #39  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:38 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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^^^

My knowledge of this subject is limited, but there are important differences, perhaps especially related to case and cartridge OAL. 38 Super has length dimensions closely matching 45acp, and this is relevant to both magazine design and feeding. It is a good fit for the 1911 design. 9mm does not so closely match the design parameters of the 1911 or the 1911's magazine, thus necessitating "workaround solutions".

Obviously today's better "workaround solutions" have created some very reliable 1911s (chambered in 9mm). But there are at least a few 1911 enthusiasts who would prefer to entirely avoid the need for such "workarounds", going instead with a cartridge that's inherently a close and reliable match with the basic dimensions of the 1911 and its magazine. And considerable energy/power without the need to make a cartridge load "hotter" than its normal/most common examples.

IOW it is not just a static comparison between (capabilities of) two cartridges, each fired from a fixed barrel. It is a comparison between the pairing of 38 Super with the 1911 on one hand and the pairing of 9mm with the 1911 on the other hand. The former is arguably a much better natural pairing (even though the latter has now been "made" to work, after much enterprising pistolsmithing).

Some 38 Super enthusiasts do reload, but many others do not.

Again, my knowledge of this subject is a bit limited, but I am aware that the differences are important to at least some 1911 enthusiasts. I suspect that there may also be pressure factors (safety margins/SAAMI specs) involved with loading 9mm cartridges to approach 38 Super ballistics, but that goes beyond my subject knowledge.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 02-29-2020 at 02:21 PM.
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  #40  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:14 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky619 View Post
If 38 super is pretty much a reloaders cartridge at this point, what’s really the difference between it and 9mm loaded all the way up to 9 Major? 115 grains at 1550 FPS is no slouch, and pretty dang close to the hottest 38 super loads.
Major used to be higher, 9mm couldn't do it and .38 was borderline. 9mm still can't hit true .38 super levels of power, you need .357 sig for that most of the time.
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  #41  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:44 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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38S GECO Ball 124 1400 173 pf

Atlanta Arms Elite Ammo - .38 Super 125GR JHP Major @ 1380 173 pf

Those are the two loads I use at the range. Both fun to shoot (nice little kick, just enough to let you know your shooting a real gun ;-)), the Atlanta arms is match ammo and is nuts accurate. It is a little more expensive than the Geco, but still quite a bargain for the accuracy.

(357-Sig pfs look to be ~ 180 or so which is about 4% more.)

I also use WC 124 Duty ammo for SD which is just below major, but at almost 2$/round, I've cut back on it at the range. The Atlanta Arms is more accurate and much cheaper. Trouble with the WC ammo, hard to get any expansion data on it.
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Last edited by combat auto; 02-29-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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  #42  
Old 02-29-2020, 04:48 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Wilson loads XTP bullets. Ought to be well known at least in 9mm.
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  #43  
Old 02-29-2020, 06:37 PM
throck3 throck3 is offline
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I just received my special order CQB Elite, stainless, in .38 Super, about a month ago. I guess I put my order in just in time. It is a fantastic pistol, and as expected from Wilson, not a nitzer in it. Shoots like a laser. I handload and love the caliber. I'd heard they were getting ready to discontinue the caliber, but am surprised it happened this quickly. I am one of those who am surprised the caliber never took off in popularity. It's a fantastic round, very versatile with plenty of available loadings, and remains soft shooting. I am super pleased with my new Wilson. Good job guys. Too bad about the abandonment of the caliber.
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  #44  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:01 PM
K38 K38 is offline
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I have a Wilson Classic in .40 S&W; I've always like the caliber. Also have an old model Protector in .38 Super; I wanted a .38 Super simply because I'm a traditionalist--there's not a whole lot the .38 Super will do that a 9mm can't. A friend of mine calls the Super a "boutique cartridge" and he's right. And then too, unless you reload (I do) the ammo is mighty spendy.
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  #45  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:39 PM
coyotebuster coyotebuster is offline
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Well... Dang... I sure hate to hear of any manufacturer discontinuing such a great and traditional cartridge as the .38 Super. I have five of them.. Two of them are Wilsons, and one of those Wilson's is the most accurate hand gun of any type I own.
It seems to me that WC must have hired some of those displaced firearms marketing gurus that have been running the operation over there at Colt. This decision runs right alongside something we'd see come out of Hartford. It also ranks right up there with WC's decision to discontinue their gloss black AT finish in favor of flat black muffler paint. But I digress... I guess my next WC will just have to be stainless.. Unless they decide to switch to pot metal. Ohh..

Last edited by coyotebuster; 02-29-2020 at 09:42 PM.
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  #46  
Old 03-01-2020, 05:46 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Wilson loads XTP bullets. Ought to be well known at least in 9mm.
Sounds like it would be a decent proxy for 38S if one can find a similar velocity, etc.
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2020, 07:37 AM
Lab4Us Lab4Us is offline
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Originally Posted by coyotebuster View Post
Well... Dang... I sure hate to hear of any manufacturer discontinuing such a great and traditional cartridge as the .38 Super. I have five of them.. Two of them are Wilsons, and one of those Wilson's is the most accurate hand gun of any type I own.
It seems to me that WC must have hired some of those displaced firearms marketing gurus that have been running the operation over there at Colt. This decision runs right alongside something we'd see come out of Hartford. It also ranks right up there with WC's decision to discontinue their gloss black AT finish in favor of flat black muffler paint. But I digress... I guess my next WC will just have to be stainless.. Unless they decide to switch to pot metal. Ohh..
Lol. Off topic, but I wish Colt would have stopped producing .38S before I bought a new .38S Colt Government model last year. It has yet to get through a magazine without misfeeding, likely due to no barrel ramp (which I know I could have Wilson correct for me). It’s got 400 rounds through it, so doubt it’s a break in issue.

Back on topic, my Super Sentinel has been flawless across 500+ rounds of 5 different brands of .38S ammo.
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2020, 06:05 PM
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I think it just a cost saving thing. First I thing noticed was no more dog tag. Next up was the new owners manual. The previous pistols came with an "Instruction Manual for all Wilson Combat pistols" and the "Wilson Combat 1911 Auto Maintenance Manual". I thought the latter was very useful and informative.
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  #49  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:55 PM
KYPistolMan KYPistolMan is offline
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I really like the WC 38S ammo. Hope they keep selling that.
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  #50  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:50 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nod View Post
I think it just a cost saving thing. First I thing noticed was no more dog tag. Next up was the new owners manual. The previous pistols came with an "Instruction Manual for all Wilson Combat pistols" and the "Wilson Combat 1911 Auto Maintenance Manual". I thought the latter was very useful and informative.
Probably no question that it was a P&L decision.

Sometimes, however, decisions made based on accounting P&L have other effects. E.g, discontinuation of significant chambering selections goes against positioning (marketing) one's business as the best (#1) in offering customers top tier 1911s built per the customers preference...and choice of chambering is far more significant preference than purely aesthetic features (I would think). It instead means offering customers a narrower range of options -- those that are immediately profitable.

It means that now someone else is the choice, by default, for those seeking these chamberings desired by a smaller niche of customers.

It reflects a change in priorities, however slight it may seem, and this can change perceptions, at least some. And such change is not necessarily a great business decision longer-term, even if it yields short-term cost accounting savings (as it probably will, although one wonders how much can really be saved here).

I'll stay with a gentle suggestion -- by someone who thinks the world of WC -- that consideration be given to reversing the decision to discontinue 38 Super (especially) and 460 Rowland.
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