On Range with X9S vid Mike S. - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-23-2020, 02:49 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,958
On Range with X9S vid Mike S.

I'll look forward to Striker's report for a more in-depth view, but for now...

Just can't figure out why Mike started off by comparing the Long-X to the Small-X two different animals altogether. How about Medium-X vs Small-X, that is more of a realistic comparison. If I had to pick one it would me M-X. Of course, most people don't have to pick "one" only.

He also says he can shoot S-X almost as well as his full size 1911 :-). Well maybe he can, I doubt most people can. It is a tiny gun. (Or maybe he means S-X in 9 vs full size 1911 in 10 MM? ;-)).

I think we will get a bit more objectivity from Striker, but an Ok start here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75sS...eid=0e730d03cd
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 01-23-2020 at 02:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:17 PM
J Scott's Avatar
J Scott J Scott is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: TN
Posts: 1,013
In 3 separate draws: 2:47, 2:50 and 3:03 during the vid he was using an extended magazine. I look forward to hearing from those putting it through it's paces with the flush fit mag since I'm "guessing" most would have the flush fit mag in the gun while conceal carrying. Obviously, the concern I have until I handle one personally, is there enough gripping surface on the front strap for my 3 fingers. I simply don't shoot nearly as well with only 2 fingers on the front strap.
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-27-2020, 04:58 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia
Age: 51
Posts: 3,584
My takeaways form the video are: 1) that I'd likely be using it with the extended magazine....and if I was doing the the EDC X9 would be my preferred gun. 2) He makes a grip on his gun that I'd do well to copy...hands molded to the weapon....recoil is sloughed off.


I like the fact the Wilson Combat continues to develop new guns and release solid offerings.
__________________
Proud to be a Deplorable.....
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 01-27-2020, 05:07 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,046
I can shoot my 3 inch Kimber almost as well as my carry comp, it's after all only 6.4 seconds vs 4.8.........

It all depends on what "almost" means and how much effort that almost requires. One in may be able to turn in a mindless FAST, devil, bill, failure etc with little to no effort that is a very good time and another gun may match it with a hell of a lot more practice or effort. That's why when I review something I spend so much time discerning and illustrating how much it takes to make a particular gun do what you want it to do, I CAN shoot my CZ shadow as well as my full-size 9mm Wilson but it's not as easy and on an average showing cold the 1911 simply has less recoil, recovers faster, points better, and requires less effort.

I suspect that's what's happening here. Similar to how I can shoot my X9 "close to" my full-size 9 or Ed Brown or WCCC if I really really go for it.
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-27-2020, 06:36 PM
WilsonCombatRep WilsonCombatRep is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,373
The X9S is incredibly easy to shoot well for a gun in its size range. Why? Well, It's not a flyweight polymer gun and the solid frame, lighter slide and new dual spring have changed the recoil dynamics a bit.

Will a 3.25" gun with a short sight radius be as precise as a 5" gun? or a 4" gun? Probably not but it can be shot remarkably fast because it settles so quickly.

I think Mike was trying to make the point that in defensive drills (like he was shooting in the video) the X9S shoots "almost as well" as his 5". Nothing more, nothing less.
__________________
Often Imitated-NEVER Duplicated
Wilson Combat Online Representative
www.wilsoncombat.com
[email protected]
Sure! I would be happy to Google that for you!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-27-2020, 06:56 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I can shoot my 3 inch Kimber almost as well as my carry comp, it's after all only 6.4 seconds vs 4.8.........

It all depends on what "almost" means and how much effort that almost requires. One in may be able to turn in a mindless FAST, devil, bill, failure etc with little to no effort that is a very good time and another gun may match it with a hell of a lot more practice or effort. That's why when I review something I spend so much time discerning and illustrating how much it takes to make a particular gun do what you want it to do, I CAN shoot my CZ shadow as well as my full-size 9mm Wilson but it's not as easy and on an average showing cold the 1911 simply has less recoil, recovers faster, points better, and requires less effort.

I suspect that's what's happening here. Similar to how I can shoot my X9 "close to" my full-size 9 or Ed Brown or WCCC if I really really go for it.
Couple of things:

In Par-1 what drill are you measuring FAST? ie, 6.4 vs 4.8.?...Are they both 45 in 230?

Agree, more time behind the wheel of the smaller gun helps close the gap btwn the two. Also think the most important drill one does is the first (cold)-drill, more realistic than anything else.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 01-27-2020 at 07:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-27-2020, 07:35 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I can shoot my 3 inch Kimber almost as well as my carry comp, it's after all only 6.4 seconds vs 4.8.........

It all depends on what "almost" means and how much effort that almost requires. One in may be able to turn in a mindless FAST, devil, bill, failure etc with little to no effort that is a very good time and another gun may match it with a hell of a lot more practice or effort. That's why when I review something I spend so much time discerning and illustrating how much it takes to make a particular gun do what you want it to do, I CAN shoot my CZ shadow as well as my full-size 9mm Wilson but it's not as easy and on an average showing cold the 1911 simply has less recoil, recovers faster, points better, and requires less effort.

I suspect that's what's happening here. Similar to how I can shoot my X9 "close to" my full-size 9 or Ed Brown or WCCC if I really really go for it.
Couple of things:

In Par-1 what drill are you measuring FAST? ie, 6.4 vs 4.8.?...Are they both 45 in 230?

Agree, more time behind the wheel of the smaller gun helps close the gap btwn the two. Also think the most important drill one does is the first (cold)-drill, more realistic than anything else.
FAST cold, average is 5.0-5.3 for the WCCC and 6.2-7.0 for the 3 incher, the full-size 9mm (review coming soon) does it in 5.4-5.7 but it's insanely consistent and there is no cold vs hot gap with it, Brown does 5.5 all day due to the optic preventing errors and it's heavy as hell allowing it to remain relatively close to starting position even it doesn't auto-reset totally on and it's own like my comped guns all do. The full-size 9mm just doesn't have felt recoil but just barely leaves the original point of aim and doesn't automatically come all the way back so I have to dial back just a hair vs my carry comp.

Still awesomely fast since they are all coming out of the same holster full concealment. Open carried (no shirt) all times go down by .7-1.1 and first shot speed is sub second opposed to 1.3ish and the Brown out of its level II holster is 1.1 and gets a 4.8 fast consistently. Beats my Shadows out of their race holsters actually,

I have a special surprise for this years bash for people to try involving my CZ CM with a very custom holster that's allowing me speeds beyond what I thought I could physically do. The holster style is one I'm developing in collaboration with my holster maker for open class guns for competitive use in 3-gun that will allow full aggression of movement and the speed of a race master holster with the lock already turned off. Getting .7 from the beep to headshot zone right now but I'm trying to improve it but my reaction time is too slow
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-27-2020, 07:54 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep View Post
The X9S is incredibly easy to shoot well for a gun in its size range. Why? Well, It's not a flyweight polymer gun and the solid frame, lighter slide and new dual spring have changed the recoil dynamics a bit.

Will a 3.25" gun with a short sight radius be as precise as a 5" gun? or a 4" gun? Probably not but it can be shot remarkably fast because it settles so quickly.

I think Mike was trying to make the point that in defensive drills (like he was shooting in the video) the X9S shoots "almost as well" as his 5". Nothing more, nothing less.
I am sure it will be head and shoulders above the guns in its class, I'll head to head it vs all the guns I own in the same size class. I'm fairly certain it will win based on the times I've already collected from said guns and the X9 compact
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-27-2020, 07:55 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,547
Wilson Rep, What’s the lead time guesstimate for the X9S?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:06 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Wilson Rep, What’s the lead time guesstimate for the X9S?
This x2
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-27-2020, 09:28 PM
WilsonCombatRep WilsonCombatRep is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
This x2
Too many variables. send an email to [email protected]
__________________
Often Imitated-NEVER Duplicated
Wilson Combat Online Representative
www.wilsoncombat.com
[email protected]
Sure! I would be happy to Google that for you!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-28-2020, 06:52 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
FAST cold, average is 5.0-5.3 for the WCCC and 6.2-7.0 for the 3 incher, the full-size 9mm (review coming soon) does it in 5.4-5.7 but it's insanely consistent and there is no cold vs hot gap with it, Brown does 5.5 all day due to the optic preventing errors and it's heavy as hell allowing it to remain relatively close to starting position even it doesn't auto-reset totally on and it's own like my comped guns all do. The full-size 9mm just doesn't have felt recoil but just barely leaves the original point of aim and doesn't automatically come all the way back so I have to dial back just a hair vs my carry comp.

Still awesomely fast since they are all coming out of the same holster full concealment. Open carried (no shirt) all times go down by .7-1.1 and first shot speed is sub second opposed to 1.3ish and the Brown out of its level II holster is 1.1 and gets a 4.8 fast consistently. Beats my Shadows out of their race holsters actually,

I have a special surprise for this years bash for people to try involving my CZ CM with a very custom holster that's allowing me speeds beyond what I thought I could physically do. The holster style is one I'm developing in collaboration with my holster maker for open class guns for competitive use in 3-gun that will allow full aggression of movement and the speed of a race master holster with the lock already turned off. Getting .7 from the beep to headshot zone right now but I'm trying to improve it but my reaction time is too slow
So using your two #'s on the upper end of each range (you know me, I like to have fun with #'s ;-)), 5.3 WCCC and 7.0 3"er...

As an estimate, I take 1.1sec off for the draw to first shot on each (there might be some variance here, but I think I can swag this if you have good rigs for both), that gives us 4.2, and 5.9 for the remaining 5 rounds including reload. So when ever looking at differential of relatively small #'s, always best to use % difference. So after the draw and first shot, the % differential is 40%...That is to say, after the first shot, it takes you 40% longer to shoot this drill with the 3er vs the WCCC....I take the time to draw and first shot out of the analysis because they should be roughly equivalent with both guns if you have good rigs for both, and taking this part out of the drill gives us a more precise view of what is going on with these 2 types of guns...40% is a big difference. I would expect anyone would have this sort of differential in their times with a comped 4" vs a 3", whether they shoot faster or slower overall than your times.

In practical term's, what this all means in SD is not really knowable, as all these drills are stylized and only "hints" of reality in a real life SD situation. But obviously, better accuracy, and faster times=Good...Hence IMO, and only MO, I don't see a lot of value going to a sub-4" gun for carry except in very special and limited situations. When the supreme court rules for us in NJ (re carry suite) I will use my 3" gun when I go running/hiking down the board walk, but not much beyond that. The 4" guns whether my WCCC (or my EP) or my PPQ9 (even my ppq45) are slim and light enough. With a smaller gun, it is inevitable you sacrifice some speed and accuracy (all other things equal)...But maybe your report will change my view on the X9S...If possible, although I recognize the gun is not optimized for this it would be a plus if you can shoot it at 25Y also. Although not typically a SD distance, it is possible a shot one would need to take during an mass-shooting scenario. It is just good to understand not only what the gun "can" do, but also where the "limits" start showing up.

My (stone-cold) total-FAST drill is 6.9 with my STI-CC-45 - I'm happy with this given only 10 range trips a year on average (I do dry fire 2x a week though which helps a lot). I've never timed my 3" XDS in FAST (and have no intention to do so ;-)). But I have timed by WCCC-45 and it is a little slower likely due to the STI being a faster reload with the speed shoot and the 2011 grip...The 6.9 was using the slide to recharge the gun, since then I've conditioned myself to reload via slide release, and now that I got the STI back (from cracked-slide failure) I will give it another whirl with the slide release method. It should knock some off the time...I should also time my PPQ-9mm to see how the "other half" lives, it is a soft shooter, has a great trigger and grip, and has a humongous/long slide release for reloads.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 01-28-2020 at 08:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-28-2020, 01:01 PM
Jlamb Jlamb is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
This x2
I was quoted around 4-5 months when I ordered mine from master dealer. But of course, that is just an estimate.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:05 PM
Jlamb Jlamb is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 113
My X9S was kitted today! Getting close
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-06-2020, 03:41 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlamb View Post
My X9S was kitted today! Getting close
Cool, maybe we will get several range reports soon.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved