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  #76  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:00 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
It's 5" overall, there is one in my LGS I can take detailed pictures of if you would like. NHC unlike Wilson will do whatever you want and use whoever's parts you want for crazy one off stuff. They in my personal opinion are more nicely (if a little inconsistent gun to gun) finished and are tighter guns (not always a good thing) and the ability to have them make you ANYTHING comes into play sometimes.

The firehawk will have less recoil than your 5" comped gun due to more static mass and very long stroke and very effective springs and a good comp. It's very impressive and I was tempted at first to order a DS 9mm with optics to replace my Brown but the reliability differential held me back.
Yea thanks, picks would be nice, but only if you are going there anyway, please don't make a special trip...

I think then that the NH is carryable then just like any non-comped 5". My 5" plus C-Comp is not really carryable short of a shoulder holster.

4Q:

1) Keep in mind, on my 5" plus comp, the (additional) weight of the comp is hanging off the end of the gun which is also dampening recoil. It is like a flange barrel on steroids just because of the weight and how it extends out beyond the muzzle per se (+ the comp action of course). With this in mind, do you still think the NH would be a lower recoil gun?

2) You know my pet peeve about getting a sub 3.5# trigger from WC without signing a wavier. Do you know if NH does sub-3.5#'s without documentation?

3) How is the NH 5" stroke longer than any other 5" gun?

4) Have you had an opportunity to shoot the NH?
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Last edited by combat auto; 12-16-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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  #77  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:55 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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I was looking at the Experior Sub-Compact. It's a good looking pistol.

Site says it's 4.8 inches high and holds 8 rounds of 9mm. How did they do that? My Compact is 4.9 inches high and holds 8 rounds. Does the magwell allow them to use Compact mags in what I assume is a Sentinel grip? Or is it a typo?

In any case, I can barely get all three fingers on a compact grip. If the Experior Sub-Compact will allow me to get three fingers on it as well then I might need to have one.
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  #78  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:53 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
It's 5" overall, there is one in my LGS I can take detailed pictures of if you would like. NHC unlike Wilson will do whatever you want and use whoever's parts you want for crazy one off stuff. They in my personal opinion are more nicely (if a little inconsistent gun to gun) finished and are tighter guns (not always a good thing) and the ability to have them make you ANYTHING comes into play sometimes.

The firehawk will have less recoil than your 5" comped gun due to more static mass and very long stroke and very effective springs and a good comp. It's very impressive and I was tempted at first to order a DS 9mm with optics to replace my Brown but the reliability differential held me back.
Yea thanks, picks would be nice, but only if you are going there anyway, please don't make a special trip...

I think then that the NH is carryable then just like any non-comped 5". My 5" plus C-Comp is not really carryable short of a shoulder holster.

4Q:

1) Keep in mind, on my 5" plus comp, the (additional) weight of the comp is hanging off the end of the gun which is also dampening recoil. It is like a flange barrel on steroids just because of the weight and how it extends out beyond the muzzle per se (+ the comp action of course). With this in mind, do you still think the NH would be a lower recoil gun?

2) You know my pet peeve about getting a sub 3.5# trigger from WC without signing a wavier. Do you know if NH does sub-3.5#'s without documentation?

3) How is the NH 5" stroke longer than any other 5" gun?

4) Have you had an opportunity to shoot the NH?
My NHCs both spec at 3.5 since that's where I wanted them but feel literally like a 2lb trigger, as I have mentioned in my review of the T3 NHC does triggers without equal. They will go as low as 2lb actual (feels lighter than my Czechmates 1.2) and I think they will do even lower if requested for a pure target/show off gun.

The stroke is longer because they are using a compact slide on a full size frame section and using the comp as the lockup area and to fill in the gap that would otherwise be there if you used a compact side on a full-size lower. I'll send pictures of this system since it's very hard to describe in words but it effectively allows full travel with the lighter slide meaning very very easy to predict recoil with low impulse. If I ever abandon CZ it will be for one of their 2011s due to this feature.

I have shot one and it is the lowest recoil .45 weapon I have ever used. Only my .460 full-size mutiport with .45 loaded is softer but that's technically not a .45

To keep this on topic it would be totally game changing if Wilson offered the experior with that sort of top end and the EDC frames crazy reliability. Surefire way to dominate games with a gun like that and is what I'm really hoping for one day so ALL my guns are Wilson and I don't have to make exceptions due to performance when competing.
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Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland

Last edited by Striker2237; 12-16-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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  #79  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:56 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
I was looking at the Experior Sub-Compact. It's a good looking pistol.

Site says it's 4.8 inches high and holds 8 rounds of 9mm. How did they do that? My Compact is 4.9 inches high and holds 8 rounds. Does the magwell allow them to use Compact mags in what I assume is a Sentinel grip? Or is it a typo?

In any case, I can barely get all three fingers on a compact grip. If the Experior Sub-Compact will allow me to get three fingers on it as well then I might need to have one.
Sentinels always had 8 shot mags with 9mm or .38s and the compacts are not quite big enough to get an extra round to fit I believe whole the full size can just barely get 10 in.
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Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
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  #80  
Old 12-16-2019, 03:06 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Sentinels always had 8 shot mags with 9mm or .38s and the compacts are not quite big enough to get an extra round to fit I believe whole the full size can just barely get 10 in.
Interesting. I wish someone would make a pinky finger mag plate (like the Springfield XDS mag plates) for the Sentinel 8-round clips. Then I could control a Sentinel grip correctly. Oh well, compacts for me!

Also like how the Experior Commander Compact has front serrations and ball/carry cuts. Pretty sexy IMO.
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  #81  
Old 12-16-2019, 04:03 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Right so here is what a stroker gun is, you can see my fullsize 9mm/.45 slides and how they have very different recoil plug sections and with the ends of the slides aligned notice how the fullsize has a half inch more room on that section to slide into the frame. When I move my carry comp slide onto my ed brown (can't fit on my 9mm due to ejector differences) and lock it open you can easily the difference in how much travel a compact slide allows vs a fullsize slide. This lowers the amount of time a compact has to "get everything done" and is compensated by a heavier spring to slow the slide down since it has less space to move and is also lighter and tends to want to move faster as well.

A stroker is when they take a fullsize frame and its longer dust cover/recoil abutment area and make a compact slide have the same overall distance of travel as a fullsize slide would normally have so that the reliability is unaffected and impulse can be kept really low.












So you can see here the compact slide retracts further at the dustcover but has less actual travel, the stroker system keeps the travel and allows the slide to retract this far as well. I believe (not totally certain) this is done by cutting back the long recoil lug section on a fullsize frame to the point that in some cases you can see your hammer when you pull the slide back looking at the breachface. Video below probably explains this whole concept better than I can lol!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

As is said above it's all about the gun acting neutral and is why I hated my 9mm full-size at first because for me it just didn't recover and react predictably for me until I changed the spring to one that allowed me to recover automatically and more importantly kept the recoil event fast and distinct instead of rolling since I personally prefer a quick tap that self resets even if it comes off target more as long as it recovers to where I started and does so instantly. That's one reason I am so fast with my carry comp, that particular gun with the spring pack I selected and my ammo and shooting style combine to allow me to get way higher performance than is normal since everything "clicks" perfectly. My shadow II on paper should do better but in reality since it doesn't recover neutral (it's low) and it's cycle is slower I tend to drop or overdrive shots and can't even tie the carry comp even with a massive holster advantage since I am "fighting" the gun to do what I want to/can do speed wise.
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Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland

Last edited by Striker2237; 12-16-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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  #82  
Old 12-16-2019, 06:30 PM
Ytown1911 Ytown1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
Interesting. I wish someone would make a pinky finger mag plate (like the Springfield XDS mag plates) for the Sentinel 8-round clips. Then I could control a Sentinel grip correctly. Oh well, compacts for me!

Also like how the Experior Commander Compact has front serrations and ball/carry cuts. Pretty sexy IMO.
Exactly this 200%. Great minds...!
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  #83  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:20 PM
1054FPS 1054FPS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Sentinels always had 8 shot mags with 9mm or .38s and the compacts are not quite big enough to get an extra round to fit I believe whole the full size can just barely get 10 in.
Interesting. I wish someone would make a pinky finger mag plate (like the Springfield XDS mag plates) for the Sentinel 8-round clips. Then I could control a Sentinel grip correctly. Oh well, compacts for me!

Also like how the Experior Commander Compact has front serrations and ball/carry cuts. Pretty sexy IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Right so here is what a stroker gun is, you can see my fullsize 9mm/.45 slides and how they have very different recoil plug sections and with the ends of the slides aligned notice how the fullsize has a half inch more room on that section to slide into the frame. When I move my carry comp slide onto my ed brown (can't fit on my 9mm due to ejector differences) and lock it open you can easily the difference in how much travel a compact slide allows vs a fullsize slide. This lowers the amount of time a compact has to "get everything done" and is compensated by a heavier spring to slow the slide down since it has less space to move and is also lighter and tends to want to move faster as well.

A stroker is when they take a fullsize frame and its longer dust cover/recoil abutment area and make a compact slide have the same overall distance of travel as a fullsize slide would normally have so that the reliability is unaffected and impulse can be kept really low.












So you can see here the compact slide retracts further at the dustcover but has less actual travel, the stroker system keeps the travel and allows the slide to retract this far as well. I believe (not totally certain) this is done by cutting back the long recoil lug section on a fullsize frame to the point that in some cases you can see your hammer when you pull the slide back looking at the breachface. Video below probably explains this whole concept better than I can lol!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

As is said above it's all about the gun acting neutral and is why I hated my 9mm full-size at first because for me it just didn't recover and react predictably for me until I changed the spring to one that allowed me to recover automatically and more importantly kept the recoil event fast and distinct instead of rolling since I personally prefer a quick tap that self resets even if it comes off target more as long as it recovers to where I started and does so instantly. That's one reason I am so fast with my carry comp, that particular gun with the spring pack I selected and my ammo and shooting style combine to allow me to get way higher performance than is normal since everything "clicks" perfectly. My shadow II on paper should do better but in reality since it doesn't recover neutral (it's low) and it's cycle is slower I tend to drop or overdrive shots and can't even tie the carry comp even with a massive holster advantage since I am "fighting" the gun to do what I want to/can do speed wise.
What lb recoil spring did you go with on the 5” 9mm?
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  #84  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:58 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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I used this after trying 9-15lb springs since it allowed me to recover neutral, cycle faster (it was slow enough before I was out running the gun on doubles and bill drills) but it also increased felt recoil and initial flip but overall much better handling and balance. The flat wire stuff in general has a more linear feel without the "slow zones" conventional springs have near the ends of travel. Least that's how it feels and acts in my hands with my grip pressures for high speed work, if you are looking to minimize felt recoil above all else use the conventional 13lb

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wi...oductinfo/773/
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Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
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  #85  
Old 12-17-2019, 06:26 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
My NHCs both spec at 3.5 since that's where I wanted them but feel literally like a 2lb trigger, as I have mentioned in my review of the T3 NHC does triggers without equal. They will go as low as 2lb actual (feels lighter than my Czechmates 1.2) and I think they will do even lower if requested for a pure target/show off gun.

The stroke is longer because they are using a compact slide on a full size frame section and using the comp as the lockup area and to fill in the gap that would otherwise be there if you used a compact side on a full-size lower. I'll send pictures of this system since it's very hard to describe in words but it effectively allows full travel with the lighter slide meaning very very easy to predict recoil with low impulse. If I ever abandon CZ it will be for one of their 2011s due to this feature.

I have shot one and it is the lowest recoil .45 weapon I have ever used. Only my .460 full-size mutiport with .45 loaded is softer but that's technically not a .45

To keep this on topic it would be totally game changing if Wilson offered the experior with that sort of top end and the EDC frames crazy reliability. Surefire way to dominate games with a gun like that and is what I'm really hoping for one day so ALL my guns are Wilson and I don't have to make exceptions due to performance when competing.
Ah I see, on the first part I bolded above, makes a lot of sense. Full size frame, but the comped barrel is taking-up some of that "space" (I know, layman's description on my part, but I get the concept :-)) and the slide is a shorter compact slide...And I take it, because the compact slide has less mass and has full-travel, that less mass is being accelerated (in the negative sense, ie slowed down) over the "full-travel". Hence the force of the recoil is mitigated in both parameter's of F=MXA (both less-mass and deceleration is lower because of the full-travel)...I have to give them kudos, that is more innovative than WC carry-comp/hunter design if it actually makes a material difference in real-tests (which you indicate it does).

On the second bolded part, yep, as I lament often, all these trim option's WC is rolling out are very nice, choices are good, but they are really just relatively-minor iterations of what they have already. The X9 was, imo, the last significant innovative thing they put out in pistol...I'd like to see more differentiation along innovation vs what their offerings are now. Sportier models, more differentiation in 45 acp model's (beyond just trim), high-cap model's, etc...

That NH is something I may consider, I've been contemplating my next custom gun, not that I need one but you know how it is :-). Trouble is, each vendor has shortfalls...Infinity, although their guns are truly world class performer's (I love the way mine shoots), has a 1 year warranty (and marginal CS), so the heck with them I will not be buying another (I was thinking about it)...STI's perform very well, but to be honest, my Costa-CC almost feels clunki (as far as solid reliable feel) vs my WC's...This NH looks like a fantastic design, that 5 " gun is still carryable, my Custom-Comp-TE realistically not so much (but it is an awesome range gun). The only thing on that NH that is missing for me is the Xtac strapes....My preferred vendor is WC, but no sub 3.5# trigger (which is totally ridiculous for a custom gun), and although their trim options are likely the best (and most expansive) in the industry (I just love the Xtac) the 45 side is lagging in innovative ideas (last one was the FW magazines - a very important one, but that was a while back).
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Last edited by combat auto; 12-17-2019 at 06:39 AM.
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  #86  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:28 PM
Thig Thig is offline
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I have 2 DWs and have been looking at the WCs. Just wondering why the single stack Experior cost around $800 or so more than the double stack. There has to be a reason I just thought a double stack would have been more expensive to make.
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  #87  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:29 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by Thig View Post
I have 2 DWs and have been looking at the WCs. Just wondering why the single stack Experion cost around $800 or so more than the double stack. There has to be a reason I just thought a double stack would have been more expensive to make.
It's loaded with nearly every cosmetic option while the X9 is made nearly entirely by machine.
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  #88  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:30 PM
Thig Thig is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
It's loaded with nearly every cosmetic option while the X9 is made nearly entirely by machine.
Not really talking about the X9, the Experior single stack vs Experior double stack.
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  #89  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:15 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by Thig View Post
Not really talking about the X9, the Experior single stack vs Experior double stack.
The frame is all done by machine not by hand. Same as an X9 and takes less time to produce
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  #90  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:12 AM
Thig Thig is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
The frame is all done by machine not by hand. Same as an X9 and takes less time to produce
Makes sense, tku
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