They said it couldn't happen: 1st 2A Sanctuary in NJ - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-13-2019, 04:58 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
They said it couldn't happen: 1st 2A Sanctuary in NJ

Well, it is a start, I don't live in that part of NJ and don't know anyone from there, but they were inspired by what is going on in VA...West Milford Township NJ. Will it catch on? NJ doesn't have the gun-culture of the likes of VA, but you never know. I'll be getting after my state politician's who are all full 2A supporters (in my district anyway)...The article also segue's to the terrorist shooting in NJ earlier this week and also includes predictable responses from the-Murph (Gov-NJ) and the E.-Director of the ANJRPC (NRA affiliate-NJ).


https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/20...amendment.html
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 12-13-2019 at 05:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-13-2019, 05:28 PM
Grandpas50AE's Avatar
Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Age: 69
Posts: 13,356
It is a start, a big start in a place like NJ - go for it CA, get you local area reps on board. This is a good thing to finally be pushing back in places that have far too long been dominated by communists and statists. Definitely time to change the public dialogue!
__________________
Roger - Life GOA, CCRKBA, TSRA, VCDL
NRA Benefactor - Certs -Chief RSO; Instructor - Basic Pistol (D.E.), Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH

Army M.P. 1971 - 1972
Wilsons: Several; Kimbers: 10mm (Wilsonized), .38S (Wilson barrel)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-13-2019, 05:36 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,515
Excellent! Even though it’s primarily symbolic, at least it shows someone in this state has hair on their testacles. As you say, hopefully it catches on. Nothing about the shooting in JC the other day fit the narrative for Murphy or Booker. Where’s Booker? Oh that’s right, the shooters weren’t the right color...oops.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 12-13-2019, 05:59 PM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boise
Age: 34
Posts: 6,748
Yeah no kidding. The silence on that one is deafening.
__________________
Jamie
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-13-2019, 08:58 PM
Auto Blaster Auto Blaster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Central Virginia
Age: 69
Posts: 341
Virginia House bill No. 67 was pre filed on 12/5 in response to the Sanctuary counties surge:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+HB67+hil
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-13-2019, 09:55 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 21,924
If you do not speak up!

They will not hear you, just sayin.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:56 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Excellent! Even though it’s primarily symbolic, at least it shows someone in this state has hair on their testacles. As you say, hopefully it catches on. Nothing about the shooting in JC the other day fit the narrative for Murphy or Booker. Where’s Booker? Oh that’s right, the shooters weren’t the right color...oops.
Yea Buddy, if some "hypothetical" person was looking to use their "hypothetical" 15 round mag's at a range, Milford might be the place to "shop" for one (ie a range).
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:20 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
It is a start, a big start in a place like NJ - go for it CA, get you local area reps on board. This is a good thing to finally be pushing back in places that have far too long been dominated by communists and statists. Definitely time to change the public dialogue!
Starting now...Just sent this, I have no idea what the process would be so I'll start with this, will see how they respond. I talked to the state senator a few years ago over the phone, he is a cool guy and big supporter of 2A. If I get no response I'll call him again. ("X"'s used for privacy on the open internet).

Dear, Senator XXX, Assemblymen XXX, and Assemblymen XXX

I am very aware of your PRO-Second Amendment (2A) stance and really appreciate your support on this Constitutional Right. Unfortunately, this precious God-Given right to self defense is severely under attack in NJ and almost everywhere in our Country. Patriots all over the country are using the notion of "Sanctuary 2A" counties/townships/etc. to make a potent statement against these attacks against the 2A. In VA for example, since the recent election which the anti-Gun Democratic Party now has the majority in VA, over 40 municipalities and still counting with more to come have declared themselves Sanctuary 2A Counties.

The courage of the Pro-2A politician's in VA has also inspired our very first 2A Sanctuary in New Jersey: West Milford Township NJ...https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/20...amendment.html

I'm respectfully requesting that here in the Xth District, we display a similar level of courage in support of the Constitution, 2A, and our God-Given right's to self-defense by declaring the Xth District in NJ a 2A Sanctuary District.

What do we need to do to make this happen in an expedient manner for our district?

Respectfully,
XXXXX
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-14-2019, 07:23 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 137
Lucky for sheriffs but this is still crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto Blaster View Post
Virginia House bill No. 67 was pre filed on 12/5 in response to the Sanctuary counties surge:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+HB67+hil
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-14-2019, 08:16 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,515
Ive written and have gotten responses from our pro 2A senators(Steve Oroho).
He fights every liberal anti gun policy they throw at us. But, hes outnumbered obviously.
I’ll send him another letter requesting some guidance.

What does “sanctuary town/county” mean? We have a local PD but theyre part time and coverage for this area (warren and Sussex counties, more rural) are covered by NJ state police.
The head of NJSP is from Warren or Hunterdon county. His position i think is they will enforce the law. (Remember, he answers to gov Murphy). What would be great if colonel Callahan made a statement , if for nothing else that NJ gun violence does not usually involve legal gun owners and therefore further restrictions do not help and are therefore a waste of time.

Murphy was crying about wanting federal regulations, and also claiming the guns used in JC were most likely from out of state. Murphy has never published what firearms are used in crimes and where they came from. He has stated he was going to publish those facts along the way. But NO proof was ever given. Btw, there was 1 AR, 1 shotgun, and several handguns.

Last edited by Plantar5; 12-14-2019 at 08:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-14-2019, 10:30 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Ive written and have gotten responses from our pro 2A senators(Steve Oroho).
He fights every liberal anti gun policy they throw at us. But, hes outnumbered obviously.
I’ll send him another letter requesting some guidance.

What does “sanctuary town/county” mean? We have a local PD but theyre part time and coverage for this area (warren and Sussex counties, more rural) are covered by NJ state police.
The head of NJSP is from Warren or Hunterdon county. His position i think is they will enforce the law. (Remember, he answers to gov Murphy). What would be great if colonel Callahan made a statement , if for nothing else that NJ gun violence does not usually involve legal gun owners and therefore further restrictions do not help and are therefore a waste of time.

Murphy was crying about wanting federal regulations, and also claiming the guns used in JC were most likely from out of state. Murphy has never published what firearms are used in crimes and where they came from. He has stated he was going to publish those facts along the way. But NO proof was ever given. Btw, there was 1 AR, 1 shotgun, and several handguns.
Symbolic mainly. Might (might, no guarantee) not arrest you over a bs equipment charge like a 15r mag.. NJ-Troopers, hum, that is a big risk, like I posted in another thread, much different mentality vs local cops in a conservative district...The best scenario is when a S-2a municipality says publicly "we will not enforce xyz BS law's" like some of the patriot sheriff's do out west.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 12-14-2019 at 12:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:05 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Symbolic mainly. Might (might, no guarantee) not arrest you over a bs equipment charge like a 15r mag.. NJ-Troopers, hum, that is a big risk, like I posted in another thread, much different mentality vs local cops in a conservative district...The best scenario is when a S-2a municipality says publicly "we will not enforce xyz BS law's" like some of the patriot sheriff's do out west.
I think it would be very individualized with NJSP based on my limited conversations and interactions with some of them.

CA, Interesting that Rep Van Drew (from Monmouth Co) is changing parties to Republican. I know hes been against the phony impeachment, but im curious how he is on 2A.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:12 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
I think it would be very individualized with NJSP based on my limited conversations and interactions with some of them.

CA, Interesting that Rep Van Drew (from Monmouth Co) is changing parties to Republican. I know hes been against the phony impeachment, but im curious how he is on 2A.
Yea, last week I hounded my Communist Congressmen (at the federal level) to have the courage to go against his Communist style Party impeachment attempt. In my letter, I used Van Drew as an example of courage which my congressmen should emulate...
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:35 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Yea, last week I hounded my Communist Congressmen (at the federal level) to have the courage to go against his Communist style Party impeachment attempt. In my letter, I used Van Drew as an example of courage which my congressmen should emulate...
Pretty ironic isn’t it?,,,that Pelosi, Murphy and the rest of the liberal/ socialists attitudes intimidate and threaten anyone who weighed the objective facts and decided not to tow the line for phony impeachment. These people are publicly committing what they’re trying to impeach POTUS for.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-15-2019, 09:30 AM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boise
Age: 34
Posts: 6,748
Nothing new though. If the Democrats didn't have double standards, they'd have no standards at all. Still, the boldness, straight in our face hypocrisy is astounding. I still get surprised by it almost every day.

Course, it's easy to be a hypocrite when you know full well the media will never call you out on it.
__________________
Jamie
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:38 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Leftism and postmodernism philosophy overlap immensely. In these ideologies, they believe there really is no objective truth. To them, all truth is relative and a matter of opinion. . This is a core-precept of their's and not my interpretation.Objectivity via facts don't matter a bit...Nothing new with the lefty believing this, but unfortunately, the ability to differentiate btwn facts and opinion is waning in our country overall. Just listen to even (some) right-leaning commentators even on fox and the amount of stupid which comes out of their mouths because they can't tell the difference btwn fact, opinion's, and feelings, it is quite remarkable.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 12-15-2019 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:40 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,515
Someone must be listening

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
They will not hear you, just sayin.
Because it was on the front page of the area paper...here in Warren county and Sussex, Parker Space and Steve Oroho are at least making some noise...

https://www.njherald.com/news/201912...ment-sanctuary
Attached Thumbnails
EA2200E8-FA08-48C0-A3DF-286FD45BC082.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-15-2019, 04:36 PM
Electricmo Electricmo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 56
Stuff like this was the beginning of the first civil war. Part 2 coming soon.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-16-2019, 05:10 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Because it was on the front page of the area paper...here in Warren county and Sussex, Parker Space and Steve Oroho are at least making some noise...

https://www.njherald.com/news/201912...ment-sanctuary
NICE! It is catching on, keep us informed...I have to re-send my e-mail to my state reps, I tried 10X over the weekend and it came back not delivered. I even sent it once from their own internet sight, same thing. Maybe their servers were down over the week end.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-16-2019, 05:43 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
NICE! It is catching on, keep us informed...I have to re-send my e-mail to my state reps, I tried 10X over the weekend and it came back not delivered. I even sent it once from their own internet sight, same thing. Maybe their servers were down over the week end.
If you have time, Maybe email Parker Space or Steve Oroho indicating your support and ask who to call/email in your district who may also be in support of this 2A sanctuary.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-16-2019, 08:13 AM
phil_gretz phil_gretz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Starting now...Just sent this, I have no idea what the process would be so I'll start with this, will see how they respond. I talked to the state senator a few years ago over the phone, he is a cool guy and big supporter of 2A. If I get no response I'll call him again. ("X"'s used for privacy on the open internet).

Dear, Senator XXX, Assemblymen XXX, and Assemblymen XXX

I am very aware of your PRO-Second Amendment (2A) stance and really appreciate your support on this Constitutional Right. Unfortunately, this precious God-Given right to self defense is severely under attack in NJ and almost everywhere in our Country. Patriots all over the country are using the notion of "Sanctuary 2A" counties/townships/etc. to make a potent statement against these attacks against the 2A. In VA for example, since the recent election which the anti-Gun Democratic Party now has the majority in VA, over 40 municipalities and still counting with more to come have declared themselves Sanctuary 2A Counties.

The courage of the Pro-2A politician's in VA has also inspired our very first 2A Sanctuary in New Jersey: West Milford Township NJ...https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/20...amendment.html

I'm respectfully requesting that here in the Xth District, we display a similar level of courage in support of the Constitution, 2A, and our God-Given right's to self-defense by declaring the Xth District in NJ a 2A Sanctuary District.

What do we need to do to make this happen in an expedient manner for our district?

Respectfully,
XXXXX
First, it's good that you're writing to your legislators. And they will, at a minimum, tally the pro gun rights versus the anti gun rights correspondence that they receive.

Sadly, your repeated emphasis on the "right of self defense" missed the point of the 2nd Amendment, which allowed that the people have the right to, in the extreme necessity, form a well provisioned militia to fight against a tyrannical government. This right was not to be infringed. Self defense and the ability to hunt for game are simple byproducts (but not the original impetus) for the individual's more fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:13 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil_gretz View Post
First, it's good that you're writing to your legislators. And they will, at a minimum, tally the pro gun rights versus the anti gun rights correspondence that they receive.

Sadly, your repeated emphasis on the "right of self defense" missed the point of the 2nd Amendment, which allowed that the people have the right to, in the extreme necessity, form a well provisioned militia to fight against a tyrannical government. This right was not to be infringed. Self defense and the ability to hunt for game are simple byproducts (but not the original impetus) for the individual's more fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
We can disagree which is the best way to get the importance of 2A across. The militia stuff, while it is valid, is more abstract then Self-Defense. Everyone knows what SD is all about. Militia, not so much, and can induce all sorts of images in the minds of the uninformed by using the word militia. I wonder if anyone has ever used the "militia" argument (vs SD) in 2a court-case. I don't think it would play too well.

"I want to protect my God-Given right to SD."

"I want to protect my right to form a militia."

Not even close.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 12-16-2019 at 10:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-28-2019, 09:19 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
We can disagree which is the best way to get the importance of 2A across. The militia stuff, while it is valid, is more abstract then Self-Defense. Everyone knows what SD is all about. Militia, not so much, and can induce all sorts of images in the minds of the uninformed by using the word militia. I wonder if anyone has ever used the "militia" argument (vs SD) in 2a court-case. I don't think it would play too well.

"I want to protect my God-Given right to SD."

"I want to protect my right to form a militia."

Not even close.
BTW, there is an article in the latest NRA political mag which confirms this view in a legal way...

2008 SC ruled in D.O.C. vs Heller, ---the 2A protects the individual's rights to keep and bear arms "independent of service in an organized militia". The SC explained that the 2A, although explicitly pointing out "militia", doesn't limit it to such, because the entire concept of militia is rooted in "self defense". I'll add, be it defending against a foreign, domestic, government or individual enemy/evil-person-looking to do you harm. In other words 2A supports both the general-case of SD, as well as the specific case of SD via an organized militia. We know this, but it was good that the SC acknowledged, also.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 12-28-2019 at 09:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:18 PM
Razorback22 Razorback22 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: California
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto Blaster View Post
Virginia House bill No. 67 was pre filed on 12/5 in response to the Sanctuary counties surge:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+HB67+hil
Last time I checked, County Sheriffs are ELECTED by the people and are the HIGHEST law enforcement authority in the county, with authority over appointed police officers such as the Chief of Police in a municipality.

Neither the Governor nor the State Legislature has the legal authority to nullify the will of the people who elected a county sheriff. The Sheriff wasn't "hired" by the State but by the people. The Sheriff takes an oath to uphold the Constitution, and just as any "government" can go into court and be granted a stay of a law or ruling while awaiting adjudication by the courts, so to can these Sheriffs and I would think they would have already done so.

Clearly a GREAT harm is wrought upon the people of a county if they are deprived of their arms while awaiting the outcome of what may be a years, or decades long legal challenge!

Surely the 2A sanctuary counties are simply sitting around waiting for the Governor to send troops....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:26 PM
Razorback22 Razorback22 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: California
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
BTW, there is an article in the latest NRA political mag which confirms this view in a legal way...

2008 SC ruled in D.O.C. vs Heller, ---the 2A protects the individual's rights to keep and bear arms "independent of service in an organized militia". The SC explained that the 2A, although explicitly pointing out "militia", doesn't limit it to such, because the entire concept of militia is rooted in "self defense". I'll add, be it defending against a foreign, domestic, government or individual enemy/evil-person-looking to do you harm. In other words 2A supports both the general-case of SD, as well as the specific case of SD via an organized militia. We know this, but it was good that the SC acknowledged, also.
You are correct in that Heller defined the individual right, but Scotus stopped short of applying strict scrutiny to the interpretation of the 2A and even went so far as to say the Heller decision is not to be construed granting unlimited access to firearms, even though "Military type" firearms are those specifically protected by 2A since that's the entire purpose of having it.

We can only hope that Neal Gorsuch turns out to be the justice the gun-grabbers believe him to be and why they stopped at nothing to try and keep him off the court. Even now the stage is set for Scotus to perhaps expand the protection of the 2A when they rule on the NY pistol club v NYC.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:08 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved