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  #1  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:40 AM
Randall M Randall M is offline
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Brass cases .45 ACP

.45 ACP vs .45 ACP +P cases

Starline Brass points out their .45 ACP +P
headstamped cases are thicker at the base
so they have a bit less volume than regular
.45 ACP cases.

Do handloading tables take this into account?

I ask because a friend is getting his first 1911 and
.45 ACP is a new cartridge for handloading. I told
him about some using the small primers and regular
using large primers. He picked up my brass which
had a mix of .45 and .45 +P I later gave him a heads
up about the possible difference in volume so he's
separating by primer size and reg/+P

R-

R-
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:50 AM
mdell49 mdell49 is offline
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Only an opinion but since the +P cases are made to withstand higher pressure which is achieved by using more powder I would say no need to worry about standard pressure loads in the +P brass. Might consider keeping them segregated and using +P brass for heavier loads. But personally I think one of the real advantages the.45acp has it's ability as a fight stopper in standard pressure loads.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2019, 03:05 PM
Twoboxer Twoboxer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall M View Post
.45 ACP vs .45 ACP +P cases

Starline Brass points out their .45 ACP +P
headstamped cases are thicker at the base
so they have a bit less volume than regular
.45 ACP cases.

Do handloading tables take this into account?
. . .
Definitely NO. Handloading tables are nothing more than test data reports the publisher saw when using their batches of the LISTED components under then-current ambient weather conditions.

The difference in pressure with the Starline brass could well be small enough not to notice. Best would be to separate out (eg) 5 cases of each type and test/compare them to see if you want to adjust your loading technique.
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2019, 03:20 PM
DeerSpy DeerSpy is offline
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I bought some +P starline once when they were out of Regular 45acp to use for 50 yard bullseye loads 4.3 grain of BE and 160 grain head shot my best ever 50 yard slow fire with
and could not tell any difference .
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:10 PM
jmorris jmorris is online now
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Quote:
Do handloading tables take this into account?
They are generally quite specific and include firearm, barrel length, primer manufacturer/type, case manufacturer and length as well as projectile and overall length.

If you change from their recipe, you have to take the changes you have made into account.
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2019, 04:22 PM
JimPGov JimPGov is offline
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I have been using the starline .45+p brass for several years. No need to worry about the difference on case volume at all. I agree with deerspy. It gives you extreme accuracy at 50yds . Worth it ? Yes without a doubt. Jp
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:59 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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It is always a good idea to keep them separate. You may notice a difference on a chrony with a side by side comparison. Thereís a thought, just for the fun of it.
Also, tell your buddy to smash all the small primed 45 he comes across and to write his congressman about his disgust!
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:01 PM
flechero flechero is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
It is always a good idea to keep them separate. You may notice a difference on a chrony with a side by side comparison. Thereís a thought, just for the fun of it.
Also, tell your buddy to smash all the small primed 45 he comes across and to write his congressman about his disgust!
Keep them separate, yes. Smash them- NO... instead send to me (I'll pay the freight) and I'll store them until LPP are no where to be found and eventually use them.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:10 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall M View Post
.45 ACP vs .45 ACP +P cases

Starline Brass points out their .45 ACP +P
headstamped cases are thicker at the base
so they have a bit less volume than regular
.45 ACP cases.

Do handloading tables take this into account?

I ask because a friend is getting his first 1911 and
.45 ACP is a new cartridge for handloading. I told
him about some using the small primers and regular
using large primers. He picked up my brass which
had a mix of .45 and .45 +P I later gave him a heads
up about the possible difference in volume so he's
separating by primer size and reg/+P

R-

R-
You 'work up' a load incrementally to take things like this into account.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:29 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
Keep them separate, yes. Smash them- NO... instead send to me (I'll pay the freight) and I'll store them until LPP are no where to be found and eventually use them.
Iím still waiting for the market to swing in that direction. SPP have been out for a long time now and I donít see some of these guys budging a bit. Some are outright confusing. They make both. If you are set up to make one, why not make all SPP? Itís a leftist commie plot I tell you! The Knotheads think that a small primed 45 wonít fit in a +10 round ďclipĒ.
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  #11  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:57 AM
flechero flechero is online now
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Ha!

I keep a bucket of .45acp SPP brass in the back of the closet for when things DO get dark again. I like the option of still shooting 45 even if my supply of LPP's dries up.

I initially traded for them so that when I loaded 9mm/38Super, I could change back to 45acp without switching primer set up on my 550 but decided against mixing them in to my brass supply constantly. So now they are in reserve for the tough times.

I once considered trading all my LPP brass for SPP so I could be streamlined on the bench. Then I realized that would upset the balance in the world.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:53 AM
BLACKTAIL 8541 BLACKTAIL 8541 is offline
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My 45 acp brass is getting old and I am getting more and more splits. I have thought about purchasing Sm primer brass for my general shooting so that I do not have to change my Dillon 1050 primer system over. All the cartridges that I load for on it now are small primer.

I would load my match rounds on another press with the standard lg primer.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:07 PM
flechero flechero is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTAIL 8541 View Post
My 45 acp brass is getting old and I am getting more and more splits. I have thought about purchasing Sm primer brass for my general shooting so that I do not have to change my Dillon 1050 primer system over. All the cartridges that I load for on it now are small primer.

I would load my match rounds on another press with the standard lg primer.
If your 1050 runs smoothy with SPP's and you were going to replace a large lot of old brass, then I'd consider it. But do you practice on a public range where you'll be picking up a bunch of LPP brass as well? That would drive me crazy sorting all the time.

One benefit of a home range is controlling your brass.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:11 PM
johnnyreloader johnnyreloader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
It is always a good idea to keep them separate. You may notice a difference on a chrony with a side by side comparison. Thereís a thought, just for the fun of it.
Also, tell your buddy to smash all the small primed 45 he comes across and to write his congressman about his disgust!
Smash? No! No! No!
I actually prefer the small primer cases, use only magnum primers in them.

Seem to get better burn efficiency/smaller ES.

For SD ammo, I stick with Federal LP cases, mainly because they have the biggest flash holes of any case I've loaded.
Probably doesn't matter, but I want all the flame getting to the powder
as fast as possible if it's a SD situation.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:19 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is online now
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What is the difference in pressure between standard and +P cases?

Over pressure?

There are other things to worry about that will affect this besides the thickness of the case. The breeze across your balance beam, the static inside your powder measure, barometric pressure, temperature and how you're holding your tongue.

All these can affect E/S and of course pressure deviations. The closer you are to the max pressure the more diligence is required.

Loading to standard pressure weighted charges in +P cases may produce slightly higher pressure but not near +P!

In case you missed it Winchester has used two different sized primer flash holes. No discernable difference in performance for reloaders!

As far as the difference between the small and large primers, do the research fact or fiction there is a small loss of velocity with the SPP. Why? Some say it's the "green" primer material.

The same with large magnum primers. Used were they are recommended they provide a longer brisence to better ignite magnum powders. Used in standard loads, maybe an advantage in extreme cold otherwise a slight increase in velocity. Winchester makes one primer for both standard and magnum loads. I'm sure their loading manual reflects this.

During the primer shortage I used a few thousand SMP in 9mm with medium burn rate powders at Minor Powder Factor, no pressure signs!

As reloaders it is always best to stick to the published data otherwise work up loads following the safety stuff in you manuals.

If something seems like you're "pushing the envelope" you probably are, be safe to shoot another day!

Smiles,
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Last edited by jjfitch; 11-11-2019 at 09:36 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:22 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
If your 1050 runs smoothy with SPP's and you were going to replace a large lot of old brass, then I'd consider it. But do you practice on a public range where you'll be picking up a bunch of LPP brass as well? That would drive me crazy sorting all the time.

One benefit of a home range is controlling your brass.
Thatís my issue. I donít have a home range. One day thereís a bunch of 45 on the ground and itís small, then itís mixed (I hate mixed) and then thereís large. I just think the entire reason behind it is about as stupid as it gets. A totally unnecessary waste of my time to be concerned with sorting primer types, especially when the eyes arenít so good. I have to put two examples in front of me to reference each time.
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:41 AM
flechero flechero is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Thatís my issue. I donít have a home range. One day thereís a bunch of 45 on the ground and itís small, then itís mixed (I hate mixed) and then thereís large. I just think the entire reason behind it is about as stupid as it gets. A totally unnecessary waste of my time to be concerned with sorting primer types, especially when the eyes arenít so good. I have to put two examples in front of me to reference each time.
You can gauge it as you load, vs dedicating time to sorting...

Use (or embed) a 13/64" drill bit on the bench- when I was starting out, I had one taped in the case bin - it's a perfect pocket gauge. Fits in LPP pocket but not a SPP pocket. I'd press the case onto the bit as I was bringing it to station 1... if it fit, I proceeded if not, tossed into the SPP bin. Once I loaded all my brass once, they were separated. Now it's done.

Last time I had to sort (9mm, 40 & 38 Super) I offered my son a $5 bill.
Money well spent!
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2019, 06:48 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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No help there, good idea though. I do not de-prime before cleaning. My brass goes in station one with a spent primer intact. I suppose I could drill them all out and ďmakeĒ large pockets though!
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:36 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Thickness is not the primary mechanism for increasing the strength of brass.
Work hardening is.
A few extra strikes during case forming is all it takes to alter the strength of brass.
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:35 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Well Iím in favor of striking the crap out of the SP brass.
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  #21  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:07 AM
flechero flechero is online now
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Well Iím in favor of striking the crap out of the SP brass.
The bigger hammer, the better?
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  #22  
Old 11-17-2019, 01:37 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Originally Posted by flechero View Post
The bigger hammer, the better?
Not always in work hardening metal.

A bigger hammer may move the brass with fewer strokes leaving it NOT as hard (and strong).

It is a fine trade off in cupping and forming brass.
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  #23  
Old 11-17-2019, 06:53 PM
flechero flechero is online now
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Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Not always in work hardening metal.

A bigger hammer may move the brass with fewer strokes leaving it NOT as hard (and strong).

It is a fine trade off in cupping and forming brass.
Nitro.45 was suggesting smashing it [to destroy it] since it's SPP, not LPP .45acp brass.
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2019, 06:18 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Thus the bigger hammer!
Just one good smash on the back side of my vice oughtta do it!
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