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  #1  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:22 AM
eleiko eleiko is offline
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Russian Ammo

A staffer at my range insists that Russian steel cased and steel jacketed .45 ammo such as Wolfe and Tula can ruin the gun's bore. True? The Russian stuff tends to be dirtier, I've noticed, but it feeds and fires fine. Plus, the bores of my Springfield and Kimber look okay. What say you?
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2019, 04:01 AM
ejr10mm ejr10mm is online now
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A barrel given enough rounds of any type of bullet will wear out. Maybe they are eluding to it will wear out quicker?
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2019, 05:44 AM
rbert0005 rbert0005 is offline
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bull s++t

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  #4  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:25 AM
pbshooter1217 pbshooter1217 is offline
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Here is an article where they tested 4 off the shelf ARs with brass and steel.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...el-cased-ammo/

Last edited by pbshooter1217; 01-12-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:52 AM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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They were discussing this earlier in this thread referenced below. They do not import military surplus ammo into the US due to sanctions. But there could still be some old stock stashed here and there though. But generally the stuff you buy at the stores uses non-corrosive primers. The ammo boxes usually state that they have non-corrosive primers too. .

The corrosive primers have an extremely long shelf life and are more stable that non-corrosive primers. Plus it is not as temperature sensitive either. But some of the more modern non-corrosive primers are much better though. Russia, China, etc. chrome plated their military rifle bores to help prevent corrosion and minimize the need for cleaning too

Quote:
The USSR Doctrine of ammunition was that all ammunition while surplused and stored still remained in service. They did not adopt a cycle out like the USA did. This is one reason why Russian Ammunition remained corrosive for so long . Corrosive primers had an advantage of longer storage life. Second it also performed better in colder conditions. Which was most of Soviet Union. Today better powders, and primers and Russia not having to supply the entire Warsaw Pact and setting up ammo dumps along their entire boarder with western Europe and NATO means that they could start taking advantage of non corrosive ammunition.

The thing is you will not find any Military Surplus in the USA from Russia that is not Corrosive. The reason we have Russian Surplus at all was the defensive store and forget doctrine of the former Soviet Union. That is not the case now. The only thing we will get in the USA is for the commercial market ammunition made by Russian factories and it will be new cartridge production to market consumer grade. You will not find any Russian Military Cartridges at all imported because of the US sanctions against Russia.

The reason being that one company that is sanctioned is Rosoboronexport which is the only supplier and (Russian State sanctioned to do so) of Dual use arms and ammunition. Tula, Barnaul Cartridge Plant (Bear) are not sanctioned. Red Army is actually an American Company that gets it ammo from several sources with Russia being one of them. Wolf Ammo is also an american company that no longer is re-branded Tula in 2009 they moved to New European Manufacturers.

A little more info but it helps to understanding the Russian Ammo Market and you will not see any true military cartridge from Russia that is not Corrosive Primed in the USA and why. It is also why there is not much info on what current Military Cartridges are primed with. Some still could be Corrosive but none of it sees the civilian market deep enough to have good info on it.
ref https://www.reddit.com/r/ammo/commen...ade_corrosive/
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:31 AM
GeorgeandSugar GeorgeandSugar is offline
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Personal preference. Several variables to consider, as suggested in the article posted in this thread. I prefer brass over steel. I prefer not to shot Russian ammo. Dont like steel cases.


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  #7  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:50 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Why would anyone want to give their hard earned American dollars to a Russian company??
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:11 AM
Kilrb Kilrb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Why would anyone want to give their hard earned American dollars to a Russian company??
Agree with this
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:04 AM
scubadad scubadad is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Why would anyone want to give their hard earned American dollars to a Russian company??
Our government gives away billions of our tax dollars in foreign aid every year. But that is a topic for another thread.

I use russian ammo for plinking in my ar. Everything else I hand load. Ammo prices are at a low so buy brass cased ammo and save the empty case to reload.
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:56 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Crabby curmudgeon alert.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbshooter1217 View Post
Here is an article where they tested 4 off the shelf ARs with brass and steel.



https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...el-cased-ammo/
Can't compare lighting up mags full of screaming fast hi-pressure, intense heat rifle rds with low pressure slow pistol cal

worlds apart when one cal can toast a barrel and degrade accuracy in as little as 15K rnds with BEST ammo
and one that routinely goes 60k rnds but still prints 3" groups @25 yrds like it did out of the box

.................................................. ..........................................


steel in pistols
Use it don't
But if it hurts your pistol, or your pistol won't run on it, It's is a POS regardless what you paid for it
IMNSHO



(warned you I crabby this morning)








..L.T.A.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:57 AM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Why would anyone want to give their hard earned American dollars to a Russian company??
I'm not inclined to do that either.

If the company is US owned and paying taxes here I don't care where the product is manufactured.

This entire tariff thing is off the rails and going to lead to a recession.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:04 AM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
Our government gives away billions of our tax dollars in foreign aid every year. But that is a topic for another thread.

I use russian ammo for plinking in my ar. Everything else I hand load. Ammo prices are at a low so buy brass cased ammo and save the empty case to reload.
I'm seeing a lot of 9 mm and 5.56 piling up at the range. Must be due to low prices. I don't buy it so wouldn't have a clue about the cost. I have way more range pickup than I can use. I'm saving it to help out a perspective new reloader.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:14 AM
RandyP RandyP is online now
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I remain convinced that the relatively few folks out there who can afford to buy or make sufficient tens of thousands of rounds of ammo - brass or steel cased - to wear out a modern handgun, would never even notice the expenditure of $$$ to purchase a replacement gun or its required parts.

Load-shoot-repeat and don't sweat the small stuff... and by the way...it's ALL small stuff.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:01 AM
passx passx is offline
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Well my .02 on this is that I bought a box of steel cased Tulammo in .357 to shoot in my s&w 66-2 revolver and while it did fire it also locked the gun up tight. Had it to a gunsmith who pronounced it healthy and have tried 9-10 different “other” types of ammo in it w/o an issue, not buying anymore Tulammo crap !

I’ve also tried steel cased Winchester 9mm in my Springfield RO & EMP and several others as well. Lot’s of rounds locked in the chambers particularly the Springfield’s with their tighter chambers. Had to use a squib rod to get the cases out.

I will add that the steel cased Winchester ran just fine w/o issue in my Ruger pc9 and the p95dc.

How a steel cased round would wear a barrel bore out kinda baffles me, maybe the chamber but shouldn’t affect the bore in my opinion. But for me i’m Pretty sure I’m Not buying anymore steel case ammo.

Last edited by passx; 01-12-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:15 PM
scubadad scubadad is online now
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Most russian bullets are copper washed and magnetic. Some say the harder base metals will wear out a barrel quicker.
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:38 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleiko View Post
A staffer at my range insists that Russian steel cased and steel jacketed .45 ammo such as Wolfe and Tula can ruin the gun's bore. True? The Russian stuff tends to be dirtier, I've noticed, but it feeds and fires fine. Plus, the bores of my Springfield and Kimber look okay. What say you?
Lol. I've sent 7000 of them down my Wilson, zero difference. I sent my gun back at 16000 for new sights and the test target was the same as the one provided when new. You are fine.

EDIT: I've also used a bunch of it in my LWRC and SCAR-16s since it's cheaper to drill with and works just fine.

Last edited by Striker2237; 01-12-2019 at 01:43 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:39 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbshooter1217 View Post
Here is an article where they tested 4 off the shelf ARs with brass and steel.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...el-cased-ammo/
That's rifle pressures and bore velocitys......doesn't correlate to pistols.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:56 PM
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Rifter Rifter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleiko View Post
A staffer at my range insists that Russian steel cased and steel jacketed .45 ammo such as Wolfe and Tula can ruin the gun's bore. True? The Russian stuff tends to be dirtier, I've noticed, but it feeds and fires fine. Plus, the bores of my Springfield and Kimber look okay. What say you?

Your staffer is full of crap. The Russians have been using steel cased ammo and steel jacketed bullets since the middle of WWII. Hasn't slowed them down one little bit, has it? Tell that yahoo that the US also used tons of steel cased ammo in WWII and it didn't cause any trouble at all.
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:16 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleiko View Post
Russian Ammo
"Commie ammo, for Commie guns" has been a motto to live by for almost 50 years now, and with good reason. Steel case ammo is hard on pistol & rifle extractors. American firearms are designed with BRASS-CASED ammo in mind.


If you LIKE replacing extractors prematurely, go nuts. Otherwise, keep that Commie crap away from MY firearms!
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:45 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
"Commie ammo, for Commie guns" has been a motto to live by for almost 50 years now, and with good reason. Steel case ammo is hard on pistol & rifle extractors. American firearms are designed with BRASS-CASED ammo in mind.


If you LIKE replacing extractors prematurely, go nuts. Otherwise, keep that Commie crap away from MY firearms!
True, but when using tool steel billet parts it still barely matters at all. I've shot more than my guns are worth in ammo with zero parts issues.
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  #21  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:48 PM
marlin39a marlin39a is offline
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I've been given Russian ammo, the previous owner didn't want it. I didn't either. I don't trust that junk to fire in my weapons.
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:56 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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The Evansville-Chrysler Ordnance Plant produced more than 3.26 billion steel-cased , steel-jacketed .45 ACP cartridges about 96% of all the .45 automatic ammunition produced during WWII for all the armed forces.
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:02 PM
wv109323 wv109323 is offline
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US ammo meets SAAMI specs. Foreign ammo does not. There have been ammo contracts for foreign governments where the specs exceed SAAMI specs. The contract surplus has been sold in the US.
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  #24  
Old 01-12-2019, 04:50 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Originally Posted by wv109323 View Post
US ammo meets SAAMI specs. Foreign ammo does not. There have been ammo contracts for foreign governments where the specs exceed SAAMI specs. The contract surplus has been sold in the US.
Commercial Euro ammo companies generally use CIP ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commis...Feu_Portatives
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wv109323 View Post
US ammo meets SAAMI specs. Foreign ammo does not. There have been ammo contracts for foreign governments where the specs exceed SAAMI specs. The contract surplus has been sold in the US.

US military has their own mil-spec used for ammunition. Not SAAMI, which is civilian.
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