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  #26  
Old 04-03-2018, 07:08 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is online now
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Originally Posted by win3030 View Post
What does it matter who funds them? Do you think all of the anti abortion nudniks are self funded and fully self organized? No, they have huge religious and other national organizations behind them who provide transpo, signage and the like.
It makes a huge difference who funds them. Why? Because they are not a some grass root childrens effort that raised their money from selling lemonade on street corners.

If you have been following along for the past 6 weeks, the narrative that these kids have been mouthing is that the NRA is this behemoth lobbying machine with very deep pockets that can buy politicians and and influence elections in the world's largest democratic republic with the millions... if not billions of dollars at their disposal from all the gun manufacturer's.

Their argument is that a few wealthy entities that make money building and selling weapons are controlling the elected legislatures in our nation, while the majority of the population really wants to get more gun control laws and repeal the 2nd amendment.

Which anyone with a brain knows is a farce, since the fact is, the civilian firearms industry is actually a rather small industry when compared to other industries like pharmaceutical, automotive, telecommunications, etc. The actual gross revenues of all the firearms manufacturers combined is about $13 billion and the net revenues amount to $1.5 billion. It's a pittance. Hardly the kind of wealth that can influence the nation's lawmakers.

That is tiny when you consider that Apple Corporation rakes in some $229 billion gross proceeds annually and nets something on the order of $48 billion.

Thus then, our side has the right to use the same argument and point out that all this anti-gun cacophony going on is sponsored by deep pocket organizations including billionaires like George Soros, dozens of anti-gun groups hiding behind their not-for-profit charities, including the great many tech giants that have endorsed an anti-gun agenda and a growing list of millionaire Hollywood celebrities... plus the leftist media who has provided immeasurable air time to the anti-gun agenda.

We can also argue that the majority of Americans do not support more gun legislation, that the noise being made against guns is being orchestrated by a few wealthy elitists with money to burn on the issue.
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2018, 08:25 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is offline
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Robert Kraft flew the kids to DC on the Patriots jet. Anyone recognize that name outside of football? Yep. Gabrielle Gifford's Hubby. Who paid for their food and lodging? CNN of course.

Look. I feel for ALL the kids at Parkland AND their families. The survivors and the victims. They should have never had to go through that. EVER. But we need to keep our heads and remind our legislators to keep theirs. Law should not be written based on hysteria or "visceral emotional response". Laws should be and MUST be based on reason and rationale. Common sense? No. No, HELL no, NO.

What is common sense? can you define it? It means something different to everyone. Common sense to me is not putting your hand on the kitchen stove when you just turned it off. Common sense to someone else may be that the manufacturer should have put a warning on the stove saying it will remain hot for several minutes after turning it off.

Common sense to me is punishing the criminal, not the innocent. The Libs think differently. They don't care who's rights they step on as long as theirs are preserved.

We need to remind the people of America that it was not the gun's fault. It was not the NRA's fault. It was not the average American gun owner's fault.

This comes down to a failure of the Broward County School Board for not reporting school violence that Cruz committed to the Authorities in order to get themselves off the top spot on the Florida Schools with the highest in school violence. And it WAS ranked #1 for years.

It was a failure of the psychologist Cruz was sent to for evaluation for not reporting his mental state to NCIC, nor the fact that he was prescribed mind altering drugs. Either or both would have prevented him from purchasing ANY firearm.

It was the failure of the Broward County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Israel specifically for not reporting to the NCIC the complaints and numerous calls to his home for domestic violence. Those would have prevented Cruz from purchasing a firearm.

It was a failure of the Federal Bureau of Investigation who received numerous warning and INVESTIGATED the YouTube video and comments stating Cruz was going to shoot up a school and did NOTHING.

It was a failure of a tin sign reading "Gun Free Zone" to stop a mentally disturbed young man from carrying a rifle into a school, pulling the fire alarm and killing our children.

These failures meant that a dangerous, psychotic kid was not only NOT in a jail cell or a mental institution, but free on the streets and able to purchase a gun.

It might also be pointed out that at least ONE gun store refused to sell him a gun. Store policy prevented sale of firearms to anyone under 21. That is RESPONSIBLE gun owners.

But definitely point out to everyone you speak to that the FBI Special Agent in Charge Lasky of the MiamiDivision is Dem. Sheriff Isreal is Dem. Parkland School Superintendent Runcie is a Dem. And it is THEIR policies and Liberal laws like "Gun free zones" that caused this. THEY are the people who didn't care about our children. THEY are the accessories to murder.

NOT guns. NOT the NRA. NOT the 3.5 million law- abiding AR15 owners who DO care about the safety of our children.
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  #28  
Old 04-03-2018, 08:28 PM
GeorgeandSugar GeorgeandSugar is offline
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Originally Posted by *MAYHEM* View Post
Robert Kraft flew the kids to DC on the Patriots jet. Anyone recognize that name outside of football? Yep. Gabrielle Gifford's Hubby. Who paid for their food and lodging? CNN of course.

Look. I feel for ALL the kids at Parkland AND their families. The survivors and the victims. They should have never had to go through that. EVER. But we need to keep our heads and remind our legislators to keep theirs. Law should not be written based on hysteria or "visceral emotional response". Laws should be and MUST be based on reason and rationale. Common sense? No. No, HELL no, NO.

What is common sense? can you define it? It means something different to everyone. Common sense to me is not putting your hand on the kitchen stove when you just turned it off. Common sense to someone else may be that the manufacturer should have put a warning on the stove saying it will remain hot for several minutes after turning it off.

Common sense to me is punishing the criminal, not the innocent. The Libs think differently. They don't care who's rights they step on as long as theirs are preserved.

We need to remind the people of America that it was not the gun's fault. It was not the NRA's fault. It was not the average American gun owner's fault.

This comes down to a failure of the Broward County School Board for not reporting school violence that Cruz committed to the Authorities in order to get themselves off the top spot on the Florida Schools with the highest in school violence. And it WAS ranked #1 for years.

It was a failure of the psychologist Cruz was sent to for evaluation for not reporting his mental state to NCIC, nor the fact that he was prescribed mind altering drugs. Either or both would have prevented him from purchasing ANY firearm.

It was the failure of the Broward County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Israel specifically for not reporting to the NCIC the complaints and numerous calls to his home for domestic violence. Those would have prevented Cruz from purchasing a firearm.

It was a failure of the Federal Bureau of Investigation who received numerous warning and INVESTIGATED the YouTube video and comments stating Cruz was going to shoot up a school and did NOTHING.

It was a failure of a tin sign reading "Gun Free Zone" to stop a mentally disturbed young man from carrying a rifle into a school, pulling the fire alarm and killing our children.

These failures meant that a dangerous, psychotic kid was not only NOT in a jail cell or a mental institution, but free on the streets and able to purchase a gun.

It might also be pointed out that at least ONE gun store refused to sell him a gun. Store policy prevented sale of firearms to anyone under 21. That is RESPONSIBLE gun owners.

But definitely point out to everyone you speak to that the FBI Special Agent in Charge Lasky of the MiamiDivision is Dem. Sheriff Isreal is Dem. Parkland School Superintendent Runcie is a Dem. And it is THEIR policies and Liberal laws like "Gun free zones" that caused this. THEY are the people who didn't care about our children. THEY are the accessories to murder.

NOT guns. NOT the NRA. NOT the 3.5 million law- abiding AR15 owners who DO care about the safety of our children.





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  #29  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:39 AM
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:21 AM
Shawn505 Shawn505 is offline
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The mouthpiece students will end up like Ernst Roehm in time.
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  #31  
Old 04-04-2018, 08:21 AM
Mike A 1911 Mike A 1911 is offline
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The mouthpiece students will end up like Ernst Roehm in time.
Or like Trotsky, Kamenev, and Zinoniev, axed and shot by their Socialist masters.
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  #32  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:27 PM
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Starting about 10 minutes into this interview (fast forward to that point, mostly because the rest you've heard before) these students begin a discussion of what to do to "stop" school shootings. They disagree, like most everyone else, one defends the right to bear arms and opposes confiscation. Others split on other lines.

https://slate.com/culture/2018/03/tr...ors-video.html

Liberals and the left have used this shooting to draw the justifiable outrage of young people, over these and other killings, into the fold of the Trump "Resistance" and into pro Democratic Party voting. They and anti 2nd Amendment (actually anti Bill of Rights) outfits poured millions into organizing these marches and protests.

They call for more laws and cops and you get more laws and cops...with consequences that the masses of people do not want.

Folks are outraged that Facebook sells and misuses their personal info, on the one hand, but on the other call for the government to gather even more personal info for NICS. The INS has gone into Facebook and trolled for any references to people who don't have immigration papers. Well they will look for other things as well.

Justice Stevens calls for abolishing the 2nd Amendment. Once you start chopping on the Bill of Rights things don't end well.

tipoc
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  #33  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:33 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is offline
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...They call for more laws and cops and you get more laws and cops...with consequences that the masses of people do not want....

tipoc
This is the one that makes me just about piss my pants larfing every time I see it.

Libs: "Let's make more laws that don't work, no one obeys and can't be enforced. Then we'll call for law enforcement while simultaneously CUTTING law enforcement budgets so they have to downsize, not upsize."

EDIT: I'd REALLY like to know why they are having ANY sort of serious political discussion on COMEDY FEKKIN' CENTRAL.
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  #34  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by *MAYHEM* View Post
Robert Kraft flew the kids to DC on the Patriots jet. Anyone recognize that name outside of football? Yep. Gabrielle Gifford's Hubby.

You might want to fact-check this statement.
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:00 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is offline
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See through plastic back packs...... Do they have a tactical version?
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  #36  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:11 PM
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See through plastic back packs...... Do they have a tactical version?
Yes, it is "clear camo"...
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  #37  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:26 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Originally Posted by *MAYHEM* View Post
Robert Kraft flew the kids to DC on the Patriots jet.
....

NOT guns. NOT the NRA. NOT the 3.5 million law- abiding AR15 owners who DO care about the safety of our children.
+1911 My friend. Entire post.

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Originally Posted by alinc100 View Post
You might want to fact-check this statement.
Based on my friend Butthead's post below, I see that at least two interpretations are possible as to exactly what you're challenging to a fact-checking. (The entire statement, the main point of the statement, or the incidental note as to Giffords' husband.)

But the key point -- in relation to who supports firearms rights and who doesn't -- about the Patriots' aircraft usage is true. If that was your challenge. The husband/wife relationships have little or no relationship to the main subject that none of these individuals is a friend of the 2A. They all wish to tear it down, beginning with banning ARs and giving a finger salute to our NRA.

From last week's discussions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
Interesting to see some of the people behind Saturday's staged/organized marches:

"... Gabrielle Giffords ... worked with the owner of the New England Patriots, Robert Kraft, to use the N.F.L. franchise's plane to bring some people to the capital."

"Ben & Jerry's, the ice cream maker, paid for buses to shuttle demonstrators..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/25/u...rganizers.html
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  #38  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:30 PM
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I think he was referring to the fact that Gabby Giffords hubby is Mark "my dog killed a baby seal because I was negligent" Kelly.
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:55 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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I think he was referring to the fact that Gabby Giffords hubby is Mark "my dog killed a baby seal because I was negligent" Kelly.
Thank you my friend... your interpretation of his remark (as relating to the husband rather than the aircraft) might have been the intent. I'm going to make a quick edit accordingly.

But that is incidental to the main point of Robert Kraft's actions in support of the anti-2A protesters. Which was what I presumed was being unfairly challenged.

Good ... got my edit in. Thank you again.
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:10 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is offline
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Yes, it is "clear camo"...
Perfect LMAO
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  #41  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:11 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is offline
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I think he was referring to the fact that Gabby Giffords hubby is Mark "my dog killed a baby seal because I was negligent" Kelly.
Apparently I got that one mixed up. Right before I posted that I read that she pressured her hubby to help and that he helped set up transportation. Then read that Kraft sent the Patriots jet. Put two and two together and oddly got 918. Apologies for the misinformation.

But it still stands that these kids were funded with an agenda behind them

It ALSO still stands that we need to fight hysteria with reasonable, rational solutions.

Prosecute the criminal not the innocent. That is even MORE a part of our constitution than the 2nd Amendment.

Banning ANY common firearm is not just a violation of the 2nd Amendment, but the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. Also, by liberal standards the 1st. (if you can burn the flag to "express" yourself, then my AR15 is a statement as well. No matter WHAT I use it for under the law)

Our freedom from fear of the Gov't and freedom of choice trump (pardon the pun) ANY argument.
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  #42  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:16 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Originally Posted by *MAYHEM* View Post
.....

But it still stands that these kids were funded with an agenda behind them

It ALSO still stands that we need to fight hysteria with reasonable, rational solutions.

Prosecute the criminal not the innocent. That is even MORE a part of our constitution than the 2nd Amendment.

Banning ANY common firearm is not just a violation of the 2nd Amendment, but the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. Also, by liberal standards the 1st. (if you can burn the flag to "express" yourself, then my AR15 is a statement as well. No matter WHAT I use it for under the law)

Our freedom from fear of the Gov't and freedom of choice trump (pardon the pun) ANY argument.
Exactly. +1911.
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  #43  
Old 04-04-2018, 08:45 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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It seems to me that young folks like Mr. Hogg have not yet heard this sage advice. They are being spoon fed sound snippets from "benefactors" who are quite simply using them.
To immature to realize that. Minors are used all the time for profit and the media isn't any exception. They see a story here that sells to an audience of subscribers. How can anyone not listen to a child pleading for a safe school after living thru a shooting?

He's being promoted for the media income like a kid someone found being raised by a family of gorillas.

Has he been on Oprah or Ellen yet? i don't have cable or dish.
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  #44  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:19 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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If would be interesting to know whether the specific Parkland (and other) high school students receiving the media attention in recent days are representative of 25%, 50%, 75% or some other percentage of their classmates, including nationwide.

Sometimes I think back to when I was that age. Then, in those days, the specific kids who shouted the loudest about "not trusting anyone over 30"; "doing drugs, 'free-love', etc., being the future"; insulting our serviceperson in Vietnam (yeah, that was a reality, painful as it is to record in the history book), etc., were the ones that the media often presented as defining that (my) generation.

But was that portrayal of all the other kids -- the majority -- really true? I try to think back with blunt honesty, not rewriting anything to varnish over the uncomfortable, and I doubt that that was a fair portrayal of all the others. Certainly, it was not the way most of these other kids led their lives in the decades which followed.

I'm not close to the current generation of teenagers. But I wonder what is the overall reality; I do not pretend to know. Demographics have changed, so that might play a role as well, especially in certain states (CA etc.). History often repeats itself in some ways, but usually not as an exact copy.

--

In line with our Forum purposes, it is obviously the subject of firearms and 2A rights that are of interest here. In that important context, one can only hope that the media portrayal of curent generation teenagers is as incorrect as their 2016 polls showing a certain Hillary Clinton Presidency. They did get it wrong, and it wasn't due to accident either. The media's intended false narrative ran into a brick wall of reality.

Mr. Hogg, I fear, is exactly the person he presents himself as being. The media might be using him, but he is also using the media. I feel that he knows exactly what he is doing, and he fully intends it. It will follow him, as well.
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  #45  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:50 PM
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I don't believe there is any comparison between the current anti 2nd Amendment push and the movement against the war in Viet Nam. The latter grew slowly against serious obstacles. It had no rich backers to speak of till late in the game. It was a minority opinion in the early 1960s. It's chief opponent was the Democratic party. Those things changed over time. Nixon won the Presidency with a promised "Secret Plan" to end the war. By the late 1960s/early 1970s the majority opinion in the U.S. was to get out of Viet Nam.

With this current push, funding by millionaires (Bloomberg, Soros and others) and the D party has promoted anti 2nd efforts for years now. It's been a part of their election strategies for a couple of decades at least. The media has consistently pushed the angle of "gun violence". For a couple of decades it's push the anti "gun violence" themes in schools across the country. It's reached ecstasy level after Columbine. Remember the Michael Moore "documentary"?

With the latest marches, etc. money flowed to pay for it. Professionals helped the students plan logistics, etc.

To see the difference more clearly compare the W. Virginia teachers strike and the spreading movement in Kentucky, Oklahoma and elsewhere among teachers with the anti-gun march. One is grass roots the other a movement directed against the working class and promoting the D Party (oh and some Republicans--hte Gov. of Florida will be re-elected.)

There is legitimate outrage among sectors of youth over the killings which the ruling rich took advantage of. The solution the D's offered was to elect a Democrat, more cops, vilify the NRA, more laws and remove the 2nd amendment.

The whole thing begins to fall apart once you ask the youth what they want to do exactly. As happened in the Noah interview I linked to earlier.

This is a class question.

The youth (not children) want it to "Never Again" happen. It already has and will again.

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; 04-05-2018 at 12:56 PM.
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  #46  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:22 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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^^^^

I pretty much agree with everything you've mentioned. It was/is two very different movements.

+1911
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  #47  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:27 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is online now
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Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
I don't believe there is any comparison between the current anti 2nd Amendment push and the movement against the war in Viet Nam. The latter grew slowly against serious obstacles. It had no rich backers to speak of till late in the game. It was a minority opinion in the early 1960s. It's chief opponent was the Democratic party. Those things changed over time. Nixon won the Presidency with a promised "Secret Plan" to end the war. By the late 1960s/early 1970s the majority opinion in the U.S. was to get out of Viet Nam.

With this current push, funding by millionaires (Bloomberg, Soros and others) and the D party has promoted anti 2nd efforts for years now. It's been a part of their election strategies for a couple of decades at least. The media has consistently pushed the angle of "gun violence". For a couple of decades it's push the anti "gun violence" themes in schools across the country. It's reached ecstasy level after Columbine. Remember the Michael Moore "documentary"?

With the latest marches, etc. money flowed to pay for it. Professionals helped the students plan logistics, etc.

To see the difference more clearly compare the W. Virginia teachers strike and the spreading movement in Kentucky, Oklahoma and elsewhere among teachers with the anti-gun march. One is grass roots the other a movement directed against the working class and promoting the D Party (oh and some Republicans--hte Gov. of Florida will be re-elected.)

There is legitimate outrage among sectors of youth over the killings which the ruling rich took advantage of. The solution the D's offered was to elect a Democrat, more cops, vilify the NRA, more laws and remove the 2nd amendment.

The whole thing begins to fall apart once you ask the youth what they want to do exactly. As happened in the Noah interview I linked to earlier.

This is a class question.

The youth (not children) want it to "Never Again" happen. It already has and will again.

tipoc
The irony, it was two Democratic presidents, Kennedy and Johnson that escalated the Viet Nam War.

Richard Nixon, a Republican is the one that de-escalated the war using the principle of "Vietnamization", by which it transferred the responsibility of fighting the Viet-Cong and the North using South Vietnamese military forces.

We know how that went. But one thing is certain, the Dems create the problems, then offer worthless solutions to solve the problems.

Last edited by PolymerMan; 04-05-2018 at 02:34 PM.
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  #48  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:32 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is online now
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Actions have consequences, Skippy.

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Old 04-05-2018, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by *MAYHEM* View Post
Robert Kraft flew the kids to DC on the Patriots jet. Anyone recognize that name outside of football? Yep. Gabrielle Gifford's Hubby. Who paid for their food and lodging? CNN of course.

Look. I feel for ALL the kids at Parkland AND their families. The survivors and the victims. They should have never had to go through that. EVER. But we need to keep our heads and remind our legislators to keep theirs. Law should not be written based on hysteria or "visceral emotional response". Laws should be and MUST be based on reason and rationale. Common sense? No. No, HELL no, NO.

What is common sense? can you define it? It means something different to everyone. Common sense to me is not putting your hand on the kitchen stove when you just turned it off. Common sense to someone else may be that the manufacturer should have put a warning on the stove saying it will remain hot for several minutes after turning it off.

Common sense to me is punishing the criminal, not the innocent. The Libs think differently. They don't care who's rights they step on as long as theirs are preserved.

We need to remind the people of America that it was not the gun's fault. It was not the NRA's fault. It was not the average American gun owner's fault.

This comes down to a failure of the Broward County School Board for not reporting school violence that Cruz committed to the Authorities in order to get themselves off the top spot on the Florida Schools with the highest in school violence. And it WAS ranked #1 for years.

It was a failure of the psychologist Cruz was sent to for evaluation for not reporting his mental state to NCIC, nor the fact that he was prescribed mind altering drugs. Either or both would have prevented him from purchasing ANY firearm.

It was the failure of the Broward County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Israel specifically for not reporting to the NCIC the complaints and numerous calls to his home for domestic violence. Those would have prevented Cruz from purchasing a firearm.

It was a failure of the Federal Bureau of Investigation who received numerous warning and INVESTIGATED the YouTube video and comments stating Cruz was going to shoot up a school and did NOTHING.

It was a failure of a tin sign reading "Gun Free Zone" to stop a mentally disturbed young man from carrying a rifle into a school, pulling the fire alarm and killing our children.

These failures meant that a dangerous, psychotic kid was not only NOT in a jail cell or a mental institution, but free on the streets and able to purchase a gun.

It might also be pointed out that at least ONE gun store refused to sell him a gun. Store policy prevented sale of firearms to anyone under 21. That is RESPONSIBLE gun owners.

But definitely point out to everyone you speak to that the FBI Special Agent in Charge Lasky of the MiamiDivision is Dem. Sheriff Isreal is Dem. Parkland School Superintendent Runcie is a Dem. And it is THEIR policies and Liberal laws like "Gun free zones" that caused this. THEY are the people who didn't care about our children. THEY are the accessories to murder.

NOT guns. NOT the NRA. NOT the 3.5 million law- abiding AR15 owners who DO care about the safety of our children.
Very well stated
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  #50  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:28 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,438
Delta Airlines donated 3 charter flights to the anti-gun movement for their march in DC. That is pretty close to several hundred thousands of dollars in terms of monetary equivalent.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...ts-delta-.html
Quote:
Delta Air Lines has donated three round-trip charter flights that allowed hundreds of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School students to participate in the "March for Our Lives" protest against gun violence in Washington.

Delta said the donation is "part of our commitment to supporting the communities we serve."
They also cut the discount for the NRA members. Remember that? Then the State of Georgia voted down fuel discounts as a retaliation.

Then Delta said they take no sides with the gun debate.

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/del...#ixzz5BqbtSjww


Quote:
What is most cowardly about Delta's actions is that they want to support the gun control movement but are still claiming they take no position on the issue.

On Monday we were contacted by several Delta employees who said their employee website stated that Delta donated the flights as part of their commitment to supporting the communities they serve and that Delta takes no position on the gun control issue.
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