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  #151  
Old 03-27-2018, 02:57 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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Unfortunately according to SCOTUS things that were taken from us were within constitution and more and more of those things will be taken away if status quo will continue. As far as hoop jumping it is my honest belief based on personal experience that a sizable minority of gun owners not only should not be allowed to own a gun they shouldn't be allowed to procreate. I've seen demonstration of such a sheer ignorance coupled with unwillingness to listen and learn, over the years that would make me want jump out of my skin.
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  #152  
Old 03-27-2018, 02:59 PM
Mike8691 Mike8691 is offline
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While mass shootings account for a very small percentage of deaths, they receive world wide attention because we seem to be the only nation that has them regularly. If we as pro-2nd amendment supporters do not get involved, we will be overrun and not like the outcome. I do not remember a whole lot of fuss when Clinton had his ban on semi autos like the AR15s. Why is there such pushback now? What are we afraid of? I carried one for 20+ years in the military, and see no reason for civilians not to own semi-auto versions, but if they keep screwing up and we continue to plant our feet and say NO! Then we will ultimately pay for our stubbornness. Personally, I don't own any AR15 type weapons, I got tired of them and do not feel the need to own one, if you do - good for you. But there are too many people that use them to do harm to others, something needs to change, a letter from a shrink certifying no mental health issues or something before just anyone 18 and older can go buy one. Something needs to change, and if we do not get involved - the gun grabbers will take everything "just to feel safe".
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  #153  
Old 03-27-2018, 03:01 PM
markbob45 markbob45 is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
1-Unfortunately according to SCOTUS things that were taken from us were within constitution and more and more of those things will be taken away if status quo will continue.

2-As far as hoop jumping it is my honest belief based on personal experience that a sizable minority of gun owners not only should not be allowed to own a gun they shouldn't be allowed to procreate. I've seen demonstration of such a sheer ignorance coupled with unwillingness to listen and learn, over the years that would make me want jump out of my skin.
On your first point I would argue activist courts got it wrong. (My opinion)

On your 2nd point.....well, you might have something there.
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  #154  
Old 03-27-2018, 03:03 PM
1911crazy 1911crazy is offline
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We need a hotline where troubled kids can call in, where kids can report kids in trouble. Maybe a radio talk show for kids and adults to talk. We need to do more before the gun violence starts let’s prevent it.
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Last edited by RetiredRod; 03-28-2018 at 09:23 AM. Reason: clarified spelling
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  #155  
Old 03-27-2018, 03:36 PM
drail drail is offline
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But that will only treat the symptom and ignores the true cause. These young shooters are committing these crimes because of the pharmaceutical industry and the doctors who automatically tell the parents "Oh, your child has ADHD. We're going to put him on these psychotropic drugs for rest of his life. Some of the side effects are violent homicidal and suicidal ideations - but don't worry - it's perfectly safe" (not to mention extremely profitable for us in the medical industry). Before these drugs came into universal use these mass shootings were EXTREMELY rare. The other major issue is parents who have absolutely no idea how to raise a child. Then their kids grow up and have more kids. How do you suppose those kids will turn out on long term use of psychotropic drugs? Our society is mass producing these monsters.
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  #156  
Old 03-27-2018, 03:50 PM
Hojutsu Hojutsu is offline
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First imposed on February 25, 1919, Section 4181 of the Internal Revenue Code imposes an excise tax on imported firearms and ammunition when the importer sells or uses the firearms or ammunition (FAET). A tax if 10 percent of the sales price is imposed on pistols and revolvers, and a tax of 11 percent of the sales price is imposed on other portable weapons (e.g., rifles and shotguns) and ammunition. The excise tax is not imposed again unless the firearms and ammunition are further manufactured.
We already pay a "user" tax on firearms, 10% to 11% of the retail price of the firearm.

Not for nothin', but tax the children attending to school to protect it
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  #157  
Old 03-27-2018, 04:26 PM
Nick Rice Nick Rice is offline
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I don't think " giving or giving up" something can help. Besides background checks I guess the FBI should have more resources to follow up on reports or tips on the wackos who do leave signs and trails of their disorders and threats which were never followed up on. I also believe more people should be packing as we are all more aware of whats going on in today's world.

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  #158  
Old 03-27-2018, 05:50 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick Rice View Post
I don't think " giving or giving up" something can help. Besides background checks I guess the FBI should have more resources to follow up on reports or tips on the wackos who do leave signs and trails of their disorders and threats which were never followed up on. I also believe more people should be packing as we are all more aware of whats going on in today's world.

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I really don't think the FBI failure with the Florida shooter had anything to do with resources. This was just people not doing their job.
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  #159  
Old 03-27-2018, 06:20 PM
Kilrb Kilrb is offline
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There was a lot of people that did not do their job, nobody wants to address that.

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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
I really don't think the FBI failure with the Florida shooter had anything to do with resources. This was just people not doing their job.
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  #160  
Old 03-27-2018, 06:29 PM
markbob45 markbob45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kilrb View Post
There was a lot of people that did not do their job, nobody wants to address that.
Actually many want to address it but the left and the media are keeping the focus on the NRA and guns. Is anyone surprised?
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  #161  
Old 03-27-2018, 06:56 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
Ah hell, I've been married 3 times. I've learned a few things about people and spouses. Trying to stear politics and religion in a marriage is like trying to whip a dog to train it. It doesn't work. They do what they want and all you can do is create a situation where they want to do what you want them to do. I respect everyone's opinion about war, politics and religion. I learned that a long time ago.

A demonstration means nothing to me. I grew up in the 60's where everyone demonstrated. My wife also grew up in the 60's and demonstrated. I accuse her of being a hippie and a Vietnam war protester, which she was, she doesn't deny it. I was in the military during Vietnam (basically drafted) and she wasn't, so she saw it from a different perspective than I did being in college. No big deal, we all have different life experiences.

I wouldn't want to be married to someone that wanted me to tell them how they should think about politics, religion or anything else. I guess I just love a good debate to see if someone, anyone, can provide a good reason why I should change my mind about something. Usually they can't. I like a little Irish spirit and people that hold fast to their beliefs. Most people can't think for themselves these days and rely on the media for guidance.

Besides, not everyone chooses a spouse based on their politics. Donald Trump didn't. All Ivanka knew was communism.
And here I thought I was the only one dumb enough to get married 3 times. Nice to see I have company. At least I got a good woman andbackyard shooting range this time. Come on over. We can shoot and swap marriage war stories.
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  #162  
Old 03-27-2018, 06:58 PM
FightinTXAggie FightinTXAggie is offline
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Originally Posted by CyberDyneSystems View Post
I am here on this forum and I am not alone. I've been shooting since I was in the low single digits of age, grew up on a farm, target shooting with .22s was the first "sport" I ever excelled at. I live in the THE Bluest State in the country, I teach at a University, my wife is a school principle, and the vast majority of my friends you would call " libtards "
Every day I work alongside and teach the people that you would prefer to have no contact with, and exclude from your forums and discussions.

and guess which one of us is making ANY positive impact on this subject with the ""anti's" ?
Hint, it aint you.

Because every day I get to explain to them how I, despite being a Blue state, prius driving libtard, go to the range and shoot, build and smith in my basement, etc. I take my nephews to the range and get them started building their own, I take alum from my classes and coworkers shooting for their first time. And we have open and meaningful discussions. they are smart people and simply need to be educated as to the layers and nuances of gun ownership in the US. People that have had the position they would not set foot in my house because they know that I have guns there have opened their minds and changed their position.

This kind of discussion is how you change peoples minds, and this is why I am currently so disgusted by the continuing tactics of the NRA, . of making the issue us vs. them, of making this about hatred and obstinance, when the actual solution to getting people to see things your way is to look for common ground.

Reasoning is exactly what we must do, and the more we refuse to, the worse it will be. Reasoning is exactly what will work.
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, just been skipping around a bit, but I have a couple of comments and questions regarding your post, specifically the bolded portions.

First, of course I applaud anyone who takes a non-shooter/hunter shooting or hunting, or imparts any firearm education to those previously ignorant of the subject. It's even better if they also include some perspective of Constitutional education regarding the same gun rights.

However, and this is a serious question...and based on your statements...

Do you truly think you have had enough positive impact, changed your liberal friends' minds and positions on this subject, enough to change their voting record? Because, anyone who votes for a liberal (democrat) candidate in this day and age is absolutely voting against the 2nd Amendment and gun rights. There may be a very few democrat leaders who do not vote against the 2A/gun rights religiously, but they are very few.

I would argue that, unless you change your friends/colleagues/family's liberal/democrat voting choices, you haven't truly accomplished any more than you suggest the hardheads on this forum have, which you say is basically nothing. If you believe differently, I think you are deluding yourself. And, I say that with all due respect for you and what you think you are accomplishing.

If you believe your liberal friends have actually been moved to a point that they support the 2A in any way, I would be interested in hearing how they go about it.
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  #163  
Old 03-27-2018, 07:11 PM
m/v MOJO m/v MOJO is offline
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Schools have no money for security???

Click image for larger version

Name:	baltmayor.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	90.6 KB
ID:	493810
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  #164  
Old 03-27-2018, 07:12 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Lots of people think compromise of our RTBA is the answer.

We really don't have to compromise or offer up anything. This isn't about compromise. It's about the total destruction of the second amendment.

Anyone watch the news today?

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/03/...ond-amendment/

I always thought a SC justice was supposed to defend the constitution. Makes me wonder what this guy was doing when he was on the SC. It also makes me wonder how competent these SC judges are once they hit 80. Looks like 3 are in their 80's.
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 03-27-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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  #165  
Old 03-27-2018, 07:21 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by m/v MOJO View Post
Schools have no money for security???

Attachment 493810
Welcome to third world America.
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  #166  
Old 03-27-2018, 07:43 PM
RichardAlan RichardAlan is offline
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My wife went to a protest.....

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Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Schools can easily afford a top notch security program/force if they eliminate expensive sports programs , which only benefit a very select few over-privileged students.


THIS THIS THIS ALL DAY THIS.

Any school claiming no money for security needs look no further than their sports budget.

Not cutting sports to fund security proves that none of them car about kids, only disarmament.

But we gotta throw them balls! What will happen if we don’t have sports!? Something that has literally ZERO benefits when it comes to preparing children to have necessary knowledge and skills needed for good careers.


Gun owners shouldn’t give up anything. The solution is to get this country back on a moral path, and raise our children with wholesome values.

I feel old saying this, but just watch movies, tv, any media. The lifestyles and actions portrayed ARE NOT conducive to having a respectful, productive, stable society.



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Last edited by RichardAlan; 03-27-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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  #167  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:17 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
And here I thought I was the only one dumb enough to get married 3 times. Nice to see I have company. At least I got a good woman andbackyard shooting range this time. Come on over. We can shoot and swap marriage war stories.


I took a good swing at a slider and a fast ball. Some guys just give up after one or two. Not me, I'm not out until the umpire calls me out on strikes. I'm pretty sure I've got a handle on this one.
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  #168  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:35 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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But we gotta throw them balls! What will happen if we don’t have sports!? Something that has literally ZERO benefits when it comes to preparing children to have necessary knowledge and skills needed for good careers.
I disagree with that. Sports builds character. It doesn't have to be to the point of fanatical competition in the school system tho. There are summer leagues for soccer and baseball outside of the school year. Lots of kids play summer ball. I did and I'm quite a character.
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When asked by a passerby what sort of government the constitutional convention had formulated for the new nation, Benjamin Franklin memorably replied, “A republic, if you can keep it”

Last edited by LostintheOzone; 03-27-2018 at 08:39 PM.
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  #169  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:41 PM
markbob45 markbob45 is offline
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Originally Posted by m/v MOJO View Post
Schools have no money for security???

Attachment 493810
Another prime example of fiscal responsibility and taking care of priorities from a democrat big city mayor.
Hopefully the taxpayers can help out.

Last edited by markbob45; 03-27-2018 at 09:41 PM.
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  #170  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:42 PM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
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Originally Posted by 557 View Post
Moderators, let me be the first to float this brilliant idea: An anti-2A subforum. A place to discuss appeasement, bash the NRA, and debate which natural rights to surrender to the progressives in exchange for....nothing.

Seriously, if schools can’t come up with money for security they need to cut elsewhere. Private education achieves better results with approximately half the money as government schools. My answer is the same to new taxes as to more restrictions on the 2A. No. Fix the problems, don’t come crying to the tax paying law abiding citizens for band aids to cover the wounds you’ve created with your liberal policies.
An anti-2A subforum? No way.
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  #171  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:30 PM
AverageGuy AverageGuy is offline
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I'll play. How am I willing to compromise? I'll give up bump stocks but you have to give me unregulated silencers AND national CCW AND eliminate restrictions on high capacity magazines AND states may not enact stricter firearm or ammunition laws than federal laws. Not willing to accept those terms? Then you are just a radical, senseless fool unwilling to compromise for the common good. Sound like a familiar tactic? We must continue to stand firm without compromising more of our rights.
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  #172  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:49 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
From where I am standing a good compromise is where no one is happy. So in that spirit I'd be willing to entertain an idea of a shall issue federal permit system whereby I get to own carry and transport my firearm with usual safety restrictions if we are talking transport and normal safety restrictions if we are talking carry, meaning prisons, court houses, nuclear power plants, airports are off limits, schools where I pick up my kids post offices, police stations are not off limits, and no restrictions on firearm type, capacity, etc etc, across the US of A. In exchange I would have to jump thru hoops and get x amount of hours of higher tier training let's say Gunsite grade as an example and demonstrate proficiency in my weapons handling up to the standard developed by higher tier instructors whose reputation in the industry is beyond reproach and also submit to a psych profiling provided there is a documented easy to follow and consistent appeals process if the results are not to my liking. Other than that OP is looking at this whole issue slightly wrong in my opinion. Best way to prevent a school shooting is not to put armed security in schools but to lock up a mentally unstable individual in a comfortable and secure mental health care facility until such time that he is cured or expires from natural causes.
You are my worst nightmare. You do know that government could revoke your permission on a whim or increase the requirements to the point of impossibility, don't you?

You completely lose sight of the fact that the Second Amendment is meant to limit government and not citizens.
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  #173  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:26 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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We're constantly told schools don't have enough money.

This:



is a High School Football Stadium.

Nuff said.
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  #174  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:45 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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Originally Posted by Sistema1927 View Post
You are my worst nightmare. You do know that government could revoke your permission on a whim or increase the requirements to the point of impossibility, don't you?

You completely lose sight of the fact that the Second Amendment is meant to limit government and not citizens.

I hear you loud and clear I was born and bred in USSR I have first hand knowledge of totalitarian government, but we are still democracy, right? We elect government. And when we didn't like the government, we had a thing called revolution. The old country of mine had one as well . Also when I read regulated in a second amendment I think trained organized and moral . 2nd Amendment the way I interpret it and the interpretations are many from what I gather uses the organized and well put together, meaning having scruples, armed citizen as a counterweight to a tyrannical government.

And again my experience some of those armed citizens today belong in a category of mandatory birth control.

The compromise where 2ndA in constitutional carry states will loose and states like Cali will win well neither left or right is happy hence good compromise. I'd take that realistically over Australia style scenario.

And yes I know we are getting into territory of rights vs privileges now, where one ends and the other begins is tough call to make. Convicts don't have right yet they are citizens and rights are God given and absolute so it gets gray in very big hurry.

Last edited by matrosov; 03-28-2018 at 08:54 AM.
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  #175  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:55 PM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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Originally Posted by NonHyphenAmerican View Post
We're constantly told schools don't have enough money.

This:



is a High School Football Stadium.

Nuff said.
That stadium is an extreme, over the top, example. And yes....it’s excessive.
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