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  #1  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:27 AM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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The Big Bad 10MM

I recently was witness to the Killing Power of the Big Bad 10mm.

A farmers cow got out into the roadway and was hit by a small car(totaled) and had a badly broken leg and traffic stopped because the road was blocked.
A few minutes later the farmer arrived and as the group/crowd gathered it was determined that the cow would be "put down" to end its suffering..
I go to my pickup truck to get the old lever rifle I always carry.

About that time Local cop arrives as I am about to shoot down the standing on 3 legs cow..
He tells me to "stand back"..as he draws the BIG BAD 10mm from his holster and tells everyone to look away because he is going to "dispatch" the animal..

I offer him my rifle and he says(with a smirk).."I don't need that. I have a 10mm"

He fires body shot..BANG!..The cow MOOS and runs on 3legs. dragging broken leg behind..He fires 3 running shots BANGBANGBANG!!
Cow stumbles but keeps running..now cop is running/firing behind cow..BANGBANG,,finally cow goes down..

He turns around to crowd and says.."im sorry you all had to witness that but sometimes animals have to be put down to end the suffering"


He holsters weapon and walks towards crowd to try and clear traffic
As cow tries to get up and is bleeding and crowd cant believe it..
Women/children crying..men are saying,"why didn't he use the rifle"?
Women yelling.."let itlive..stop shooting it"..

Cow still trying to get up//

Cop draws the "Big 10mm again and empties it..Cow goes down again and at the point cop is looking at his pistol and wondering what the heck is wrong?

I don't even know how many total shots he fired into the poor cow..

At that point you could still see the cow laying in the ditch bleeding/breathing/moaning




I finally walked back to my truck and put the rifle away and waited for traffic to start moving..

10mm?..No..Not impressed.
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:42 AM
CDW4ME CDW4ME is offline
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CSB?
I shot a deer with a 155 gr. 10mm XTP - deer ran about 40 yards and fell over, heart shot.
The exit hole on heart was bigger than a quarter.
Impressed? Yea.
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"Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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  #3  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:56 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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One wonders about shot placement.

Secondarily, whether officer was using light 10mm loadings. IOW, not even close to Buffalo Bore (or similar). A light load with JHP might not penetrate sufficiently for a cow.

But my first bet is on dubious shot placement.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:27 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
CSB?
I shot a deer with a 155 gr. 10mm XTP - deer ran about 40 yards and fell over, heart shot.
The exit hole on heart was bigger than a quarter.
Impressed? Yea.

How is that impressive?

You shot 100lb animal in the heart and it ran 40 yards?..no wonder the 700lb animal ran off after being body shot..


That 10mm was NOT the tool for the job(in my opinion)
Poor shot placement and using a handgun/carry gun instead of a rifle were 2 of the mistakes he made.
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  #5  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:42 PM
MJY MJY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
How is that impressive?

You shot 100lb animal in the heart and it ran 40 yards?..no wonder the 700lb animal ran off after being body shot..

I have seen many whitetail deer do exactly that when hit with a 30-06. It's a dead run, and that's about how far they can make it before they tip over. Even with a 300WinMag, they don't always drop in their tracks.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:12 PM
CDW4ME CDW4ME is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
How is that impressive?

You shot 100lb animal in the heart and it ran 40 yards?..no wonder the 700lb animal ran off after being body shot..


That 10mm was NOT the tool for the job(in my opinion)
Poor shot placement and using a handgun/carry gun instead of a rifle were 2 of the mistakes he made.
You hunted deer much?
I've killed (not harvested) 30+ over two dozen were bow, few with rifle and one with a 10mm pistol.
40 yards is a short recovery.
I've blown a 1 1/4'' four blade broadhead completely through them (wicked hole) and had them run further.

A full power 10mm load should have at least 600# KE from a 5'' barrel.
Underwood offers loads hotter than my handloads, but one of these is what I shot the deer with.
10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221
10mm Handload Nosler 150 JHP @ 1,402 fps / 655# KE - recoil energy 9.4 - PF 210
10mm Handload Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,400 fps / 675# KE - recoil energy 9.6 - PF 217

The XTP had about 600# KE (calculation) remaining when it hit the deer at 18 yards from me.
A bullet that expands to about .65 made holes from larger than .95 (quarter) to 1 1/4''
Impressed? Yes, I was.



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"Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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  #7  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:07 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Yes..I witnessed it and shot placement was THE single biggest mistake the over confidant in his weapon officer made..
The guy clearly was NOT a hunter or had even grown up on a farm or around large animals..
I have seen a butcher come out to my Farm and have him dispatch a large beef for slaughter with 1 well placed 22 round to the animals head.

I knew immediately this wasnt going to turn out well.. but to see the shocked look on the officers face that his BIG 10 wasn't killing the large cow and the shock from the crowd at what was happening was really sad..


It sounded like he fired 10+ rounds into the animal..
I'm pretty sure the gun was empty and he was reaching for his backup magazine as I walked away..

Last edited by trckdrvr; 01-13-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:07 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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***! I don't know anything about putting down animal's but why would he use a body shot to start? This has nothing to do with the abilities of the 10mm but rather the lack of ability by the cop. Sorry to hear he caused so much needless suffering to the animal. Guess they don't have IQ-tests to become a cop in that jurisdiction.
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-13-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:17 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
***! I don't know anything about putting down animal's but why would he use a body shot to start?
The cow had gotten up from the accident and was standing in ditch on 3 legs dragging broken leg..
I guess he didn't feel he could make a good head shot.

But where on body he aimed to make first shot?..beats me?
Where he was aiming with multipile follow up shots?..I don't know?

All i know was he was staring at his empty gun ..then cow..then back at his gun wondering?
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:15 PM
Independance Independance is offline
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I have NEVER seen a roadside animal engaged with a body shot...
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2019, 04:11 PM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Originally Posted by Independance View Post
I have NEVER seen a roadside animal engaged with a body shot...
This.

Christ when I was a kid still on the farm, my neighbors 14 year old daughter, Linda, was the one to do the dispatching when one of their cows made it out onto the main highway. The local trooper watched dumbfounded while she used a 30:30 lever action with a head shot.
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:41 PM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Should have made a head shot. .22 l.r. used to kill cows with one shot every day.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:58 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterGC View Post
Should have made a head shot. .22 l.r. used to kill cows with one shot every day.
Precisely.
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:09 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Should have went for the head.
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:14 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Should have went for the head.

Yep..No matter how big the animal..take the head out and the rest will soon collapse
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:39 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
Yep..No matter how big the animal..take the head out and the rest will soon collapse
Yep, hell there was a raccoon at work screwing with cars on the lot. It was shot through the body (serious hit, bleeding out and stopped moving) with a 9mm Barnes round but didn't die (not my shot). I felt bad so I shot it through the head to end it since even a lethal shot can take a good long while to actually fully kill something.
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:20 PM
98Skippy 98Skippy is offline
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When I was a deputy coming home from work I came upon an accident where a car had struck a deer. The deer crawled into some briars/vines and needed to be put down.

Some good old boy was walking with his scoped .270 rifle around saying I'll kill it. I didn't want to walk into the stickers/brush and asked him to dispatch the deer. He stot the shoulder and started bragging he blew the shoulder out. The deer was still alive.

I walked in the briers(tore the heck out of mu uniform), put my 9mm to its ear and killed it immediately.

Shot placement is everything.
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:22 PM
vortec vortec is offline
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Quote:
That 10mm was NOT the tool for the job(in my opinion)
Not the caliber that was at fault. 10mm's have been used to take down cape buffalo. As others have stated, it was probably bad shot placement or substandard ammo.

Just goes to show you that the energy dump theory of incapacitation doesn't work so well when the target is able to absorb the dumped energy. Penetration and a large permanent wound channel is a better route to take.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:06 PM
NH45 NH45 is offline
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Was the cop's name Barney Fife?
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:36 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Originally Posted by NH45 View Post
Was the cop's name Barney Fife?
No..and I actually started feeling sorry for him

He seriously thought he had a magic 10mm gun..I guess reading lots of internet stories and gunshop talk had convinced him he was carrying Clint Eastwoods mdl29..

You could see the confusion on his face as he kept shooting and shooting and it was not having much effect on the very large animal..
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:39 PM
191159 191159 is offline
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Where and when did this happen?
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:01 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Originally Posted by 191159 View Post
Where and when did this happen?
Around a mile north of my farm..and about 4pm
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:56 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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I actually think the local cop made a very poor choice turning down a rifle for a handgun (even a 10mm)
The rifle is easier to shoot more accurately and has more energy than the 10mm

10mm..have nothing on a 30-30....Yes..they are good handgun rounds..note: handgun rounds....But a 30-30 carbine is superior.
30-30 if you are looking for quick easy shooting of a powerful round. Preferable to any hand gun round.

Almost double the muzlzle velocity
and almost double muzzle energy

Caliber: 30 Carbine
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1990 fps
Muzzle Energy: 967 ft lbs

vs.

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 180 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
Muzzle Energy: 529 ft lbs
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:04 PM
Houser Houser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
I actually think the local cop made a very poor choice turning down a rifle for a handgun (even a 10mm)
The rifle is easier to shoot more accurately and has more energy than the 10mm

10mm..have nothing on a 30-30....Yes..they are good handgun rounds..note: handgun rounds....But a 30-30 carbine is superior.
30-30 if you are looking for quick easy shooting of a powerful round. Preferable to any hand gun round.

Almost double the muzlzle velocity
and almost double muzzle energy

Caliber: 30 Carbine
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1990 fps
Muzzle Energy: 967 ft lbs

vs.

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 180 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
Muzzle Energy: 529 ft lbs
You may have confused the 30-30 cartridge ballistics common to many lever action rifles (and some handguns like the TC Contender ) with the less potent .30 Cal M1 Carbine round in the ballistics cited above.

Quote:
Caliber: 30 Carbine
Brand: Remington UMC FMJ
Bullet Weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1990 fps
Muzzle Energy: 967 ft lbs


The venerable 30-30 round is significantly more powerful.

Caliber: 30-30 Winchester 150
Brand: Winchester Power-Point
Bullet Weight: 150 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 2390
Muzzle Energy: 1902

As for killing cows, there's not much magic to it, but any job can be botched I suppose, regardless of the tools used.

Just surprised that an audience residing 2 hours from a local news station would be so unfamiliar with how to more efficiently address such things as injured livestock.

My grandfather's old 1918 vintage S&W Regulation Police with its "anemic" 38 S&W cartridge is probably a more proven hog and cow killer than any firearm we are currently toting around simply due to its usefulness for such things back in the day when folks processed their own meat.

Caliber: .38 Smith & Wesson
Bullet Weight: 145 grain
Bullet Style: Lead Round Nose
Muzzle Velocity: 689 FPS
Muzzle Energy: 153 ft.-lbs.

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Last edited by Houser; 01-13-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:26 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houser View Post

Just surprised that an audience residing 2 hours from a local news station would be so unfamiliar with how to more efficiently address such things as injured livestock.
The audience (residing 2 hours from the news station) were not "unfamiliar"

Local law told everyone to "stand back" when he drew the Big 10..
Then proceeded to turn it into a sad comedy of poor performance by both him and his Big 10 pistol.
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