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  #1  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:35 AM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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Accurate 1911's for Regular People?

I'll probably regret asking, but what's a good, accurate 1911 for someone who wants to shoot well at up to 25 yards?

I have an SW1911 and a Colt "ELCEN" .38 Super. I find them both accurate, as in most shots go into 1.5" at 7 yards offhand, but I've started to think I would like to feel really good about my pistol's accuracy so I will learn more about what I'm doing wrong.

I just shoot in my backyard. I don't plan to compete, and I'm not so desperate for accuracy that I want to buy a weird-looking competition gun.

I don't know if I'm ready to blow $3K on one hobby pistol. I see that the Gold Cup Trophy is not too expensive, and it's supposedly better than run-of-the-mill guns.

Also, if I want to improve my existing guns, will new barrel bushings make a big difference?
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:04 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I'll probably regret asking, but what's a good, accurate 1911 for someone who wants to shoot well at up to 25 yards?

I have an SW1911 and a Colt "ELCEN" .38 Super. I find them both accurate, as in most shots go into 1.5" at 7 yards offhand, but I've started to think I would like to feel really good about my pistol's accuracy so I will learn more about what I'm doing wrong.
...
*My* SW1911PC is about as accurate as anything, though only commander-sized. A DW gov't-sized is in the works; for which I have have high expectations. But my first thought is to improve technique: that very short stroke, plunger m1911 trigger has lots of potential; but takes some learning coming from swinging triggers.

Maybe have your S&W trigger examined for whether it would benefit from lightening and/smoothing. An m1911 whose maker has "Wesson" in the name oughta be GtG for approaching your limits as a shooter.

HtH
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:38 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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What is the purpose for the gun? You said not competition, so is it for carry?

Is it your Burglar Gun, or just mostly for that backyard shooting?
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:40 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Any high-end one will outshoot the user. Baer and Alchemy are two in particular.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:41 PM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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The Smith & Wesson Performance Center 1911's look very good. I have zero complaints about the SW1911 I already have.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:42 PM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
What is the purpose for the gun? You said not competition, so is it for carry?

Is it your Burglar Gun, or just mostly for that backyard shooting?
I would never carry an 8-shot gun for protection. I just want something fun to shoot.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:47 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Most midrange ones will outshoot most users, on super high end one with optics it becomes crazy apparent how much user error is involved. You should be able to get no more than .5 inch (near same hole) groups at 10 yards standing before you will start to outpace lower end guns abilities

As for mag capacity do what makes you comfortable but timers don't lie so make sure to time first shot speed, accuracy, and overall performance before writing off the 1911
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:48 PM
parallax parallax is offline
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Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I would never carry an 8-shot gun for protection...
Are you expecting to take a stroll through Fallujah or something?
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2020, 12:50 PM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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Originally Posted by parallax View Post
Are you expecting to take a stroll through Fallujah or something?
I don't know. Are there any good falafel stands?
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2020, 01:12 PM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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I totally forgot where I was when I said I wouldn't carry an 8-shot gun for protection. I guess I'm in for it now.

If it helps, I love the 1911, whereas the frumpy Glock I carry is just a tool, like a toilet brush.

I would be afraid to carry a 1911 all day because it might get scratched.
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2020, 01:39 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
most shots go into 1.5" at 7 yards offhand,
That is not a gun limitation unless you are hampered by recoil.

In order of what I think will seem of least to most interest to you:
Technique; train, study, practice.
Ammo; do you buy or load good quality ammunition? If not, do so.
Accurize; a fitted bushing might do, perhaps barrel, sights, and trigger on the Colt.
Smallbore; a good .22 will return more accuracy for the buck than about anything else.
Secondary market; sales of nicer guns are soft, you could probably find a second hand Baer for a lot less than new, maybe less than mass produced.
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2020, 01:42 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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WC offers a 1" guarantee at 25y on their full size 1911's (off a rest). Believe me, it is a real spec, I shot 2" 5R groups (freehand) with several of my 5" Wilson's regularly when I frequent indoor ranges some years ago (now I shoot outside at small steel plates)...There are other major custom guns like Bear also who offer a guarantee even out to 50 yards. NH can likely do an inch at 25, but I don't know if they have a guarantee...

But to put this in perspective, the Walther PPQ-Q5 5" in 9mm has printed 1" groups in several gun mags over the last few years as well as been reported by gun owners. And it is a lot less expensive that a custom 1911.

That would be slow shooting...I Guess you have to define "what shooting well at 25y means" to you Sarg'?
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2020, 02:20 PM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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The Performance Center 1911 is giving me bad thoughts, but I see some people are claiming these guns aren't what they were a few years ago.

I guess you can't send Smith & Wesson an email and ask if their current pistols stink and expect a realistic answer.
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:02 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I totally forgot where I was when I said I wouldn't carry an 8-shot gun for protection. I guess I'm in for it now.

If it helps, I love the 1911, whereas the frumpy Glock I carry is just a tool, like a toilet brush.

I would be afraid to carry a 1911 all day because it might get scratched.
I'm on my 4th refinish, any carry gun is a tool and its no different than using a Glock really
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:07 PM
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I'm seeing a lot of false assumptions in this thread. First, the assumption that anyone short of a champion bullseye pistol shooter will ever be able to discern the difference in mechanical accuracy between a quality mid-range 1911 and a top-end one. Second, the idea that a nine-shot (not 8-shot) pistol is insufficient for personal defense. And third, the notion that speed of the draw and your first shot has anything whatsoever to do with the realities of using lethal force in the real world.
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  #16  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:38 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I'll probably regret asking, but what's a good, accurate 1911 for someone who wants to shoot well at up to 25 yards?

I have an SW1911 and a Colt "ELCEN" .38 Super. I find them both accurate, as in most shots go into 1.5" at 7 yards offhand, but I've started to think I would like to feel really good about my pistol's accuracy so I will learn more about what I'm doing wrong.

I just shoot in my backyard. I don't plan to compete, and I'm not so desperate for accuracy that I want to buy a weird-looking competition gun.

I don't know if I'm ready to blow $3K on one hobby pistol. I see that the Gold Cup Trophy is not too expensive, and it's supposedly better than run-of-the-mill guns.

Also, if I want to improve my existing guns, will new barrel bushings make a big difference?
That Colt El Centauro should be capable of drilling tight groups well past 25-yards.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:59 PM
havanajim havanajim is offline
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I'm neither an 'operator', nor a gun-game imperial, master poobah - or a tattooed, youtube gun-guru, for that matter - but I have been shooting for a long time - and have been helping folks improve their shooting for a good portion of that time. From my experience, most people cannot fully wring out the best performance possible out of just about any production pistol without lots and lots of time and effort behind the trigger. In other words, focusing on equipment that guarantees 1" or 1.5" at 25yds, is energy misdirected if you cannot print 'one-ragged-hole' groups at 7yds or 10yds on command - and frankly, most production guns can do that with little to no coaxing.

One of the techniques I've used with folks in search of consistent accuracy is to have them shoot a target at 3yds until they can make those one-hole groups consistently. After that, push to 5yds and repeat. Then 7yds, then 10yds, etc. One of the benefits of this is that it builds confidence, both in the gun and in the shooter's improving skill/mastery. Mistakes in form are clearly identifiable because feedback is immediate and clearly visible early on. Starting very close also helps to identify a gun not capable of such performance - something not very common at all. Lemons do exist, certainly, but they are fewer and farther apart than the interweb would have you believe. This regimen does require patience and commitment, but it has paid dividends in the end.

So, all this to say, by all means, get the expensive pistol if you like it and want it, but, don't spend the money solely on the belief that all of a sudden it's going to make you a better shot. Only quality practice can achieve that - lots of it.

Just my 2-cents!!
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2020, 04:25 PM
kcruisin kcruisin is offline
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I'm regular people, I don't like paying over 1k for a gun, but I'm grateful to have a few.
I've done a Trigger-Job on all my 1911s and polished the insides. I've got some 5-$600 guns that stay on target at 25 yards, and even some short barrels that are impressive.
For me, I've found a smooth trigger around 4lbs to be vital for accuracy.
I think I paid $40 for the sear jig, and a few hours each on the jobs.
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:39 PM
Sergeant Pork Sergeant Pork is offline
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I'm not totally feeble; I just have the idea that I can do better if I shoot more often, make the ammo myself, and make sure the gun isn't contributing any error.

I had to dig to find an example of my shooting. Found an old SW1911 target. I believe this is 50 rounds, so it opened up a bit. The distance is 7 yards. It would be neat to shrink the hole by 50%.

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  #20  
Old 05-26-2020, 04:40 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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OP.

The Colt GCT will be a fine shooter. You should have no trouble shooting decent groups at 25 yds....it's a great choice.

And if you wanted to throw an EGW bushing at it, that's an inexpensive accuracy upgrade that never hurts.
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2020, 04:51 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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dsk-------- I agree with your post except your last line.

Because the speed of your draw & your 1st shot have a TON to do with defense.

If you watch the real-life security footage shown on Active Self Protection, you will see that the first guy to get shots on target usually wins.

And John, the show's host, says that exact thing many, many times.

Not that this matters to the OP anyhow. He's not using his 1911 as a defense tool. Just a fun shooter.

Btw, I don't really see a need for a super-accurate gun for that purpose. It's throwing money away. A Laser-Lyte system is cheap & will improve your accuracy more than a better gun.

A quality gun just goes, more precisely, into the wrong direction that you are pointing it in.
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  #22  
Old 05-26-2020, 05:09 PM
havanajim havanajim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I'm not totally feeble; I just have the idea that I can do better if I shoot more often, make the ammo myself, and make sure the gun isn't contributing any error.

I had to dig to find an example of my shooting. Found an old SW1911 target. I believe this is 50 rounds, so it opened up a bit. The distance is 7 yards. It would be neat to shrink the hole by 50%.

Were those shots in close succession? If so, then that many rounds will cause fatigue to factor in as well, no doubt. What can the pistol do rested? Have you tried that? I always test a new gun rested to eliminate the 'me' factor as much as possible in assessing its capability before going unsupported. Following that exercise, I can no longer blame the gun for any 'crappy performance' I may deliver. This is why I know that most production guns are capable of very good accuracy - we are 'variable' affecting that!!
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  #23  
Old 05-26-2020, 05:18 PM
drail drail is offline
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In my experience most stock production guns can outshoot 90% of the people who buy them. The last Springfield Mil spec I bought was bolted into a Ransom Rest and would place an entire magazine into a ragged 1 inch hole at 17 yards. Straight out of the box with no work done to it. I did a trigger job on it and it is now my wife's gun and she has won quite a few matches with it. I LOVE watching her beat all the guys with that gun......
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Old 05-26-2020, 05:33 PM
Nork1911A1 Nork1911A1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I would never carry an 8-shot gun for protection. I just want something fun to shoot.
To be honest, I don't carry just 8 rounds either. Two 7 round mags with one in the pipe in my Rock Island compact for 15, I feel pretty secure.

And I don't know what your definition of a "regular person" is but I think I'm a regular guy.

And I can put a mag full of rounds in a 4" circle at 10 yds. Definitely not bullseye competition grade but then again, I'm no Competition shooter.

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Old 05-26-2020, 05:47 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Pork View Post
I'm not totally feeble; I just have the idea that I can do better if I shoot more often, make the ammo myself, and make sure the gun isn't contributing any error.

I had to dig to find an example of my shooting. Found an old SW1911 target. I believe this is 50 rounds, so it opened up a bit. The distance is 7 yards. It would be neat to shrink the hole by 50%.

That group can be halved through skill refinement alone, you are doing very well but you should be able to hit your goal with the same gun.
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