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  #1  
Old 05-21-2020, 02:51 AM
Nick1curtis Nick1curtis is offline
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Kimber Gold Combat II magazine latch

Hello everyone. I hate for my first post here to be about an issue, but I just brought home my first 1911 and am having an issue. When I load my magazine empty there is no issue with it latching. When I load the magazine full(8) it will not latch unless I have my slide locked back. If i take one cartridge out of the magazine it will seat no problem. I plan on stopping at some shops tomorrow to try and find some Wilson mags. Just want to see if anyone has any advice or ideas on what it could be besides a magazine issue.

Thanks to anyone that can help
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:27 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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1911 mag issues....

There are many different calibers of 1911 guns.....and the magazine catch is designed differently for different calibers.....it could be Kimber used the wrong mag catch.....

You might want to call Kimber, and ask if they have a recommendation for the best 8 round mags to use for their Kimber II.

It could be a magazine issue or a magazine catch issue in the gun..... if you know anyone that has different 8 round .45acp mags, you might want to see if you have the same issue....

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 05-21-2020 at 06:29 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:10 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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I'm pretty sure Kimber is using Checkmate flush fit 8 round mags. Stuffing 8 rounds into a flush fit mag leaves precious little room for additional spring compression which is why a ball peen hammer is sometimes needed to seat one of these on a closed slide.

Is your problem only happening when attempting to seat a fully loaded mag on a closed slide?
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:18 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
When I load my magazine empty there is no issue with it latching. When I load the magazine full(8) it will not latch unless I have my slide locked back. If i take one cartridge out of the magazine it will seat no problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
I'm pretty sure Kimber is using Checkmate flush fit 8 round mags. Stuffing 8 rounds into a flush fit mag leaves precious little room for additional spring compression which is why a ball peen hammer is sometimes needed to seat one of these on a closed slide.
Steve explained your problem.

Actually, you should be able to seat that mag, but it will probably take a whole lot more effort and concentration than you'd expect.


Quote:
I plan on stopping at some shops tomorrow to try and find some Wilson mags.
Don't buy a Wilson 47D 8 rounder. You'll probably have the same issue.

Either get a full size 7 round 47, or one of the 8 rounders from the Wilson ETM line-up, the ETM mags have a longer mag tube.
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:42 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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A few links that may be informative:

https://forums.1911forum.com/showpos...34&postcount=7

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/.../#post-1511231

https://www.kimbertalk.com/forums/ki...full-load.html
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2020, 03:43 PM
Nick1curtis Nick1curtis is offline
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I went out and got a wc 47-45fs10b 10 round and a wc 47dc 8 round. The 10!fits like a glove at full capacity and the 8 was having the same issue as my kimpro tac-mag.

Not happy with the 8 rounders so I loaded the mags and started pumping the cartridges to try and maybe loosen the springs. It ended up working however it still takes a little more effort than it should. I think with time the new springs just need to loosen and the problem will correct itself.

I think I might just pick up a few more of the 10 rounders because they look pretty mean to me 🤘
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2020, 03:58 PM
jtq jtq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
Thanks everyone for the replies. I went out and got a wc 47-45fs10b 10 round and a wc 47dc 8 round. The 10!fits like a glove at full capacity and the 8 was having the same issue as my kimpro tac-mag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtq View Post
Don't buy a Wilson 47D 8 rounder. You'll probably have the same issue.

Either get a full size 7 round 47, or one of the 8 rounders from the Wilson ETM line-up, the ETM mags have a longer mag tube.
Quote:
Not happy with the 8 rounders so I loaded the mags and started pumping the cartridges to try and maybe loosen the springs. It ended up working however it still takes a little more effort than it should. I think with time the new springs just need to loosen and the problem will correct itself.
Wilson includes instructions with their mags

https://s3.amazonaws.com/wilsoncomba...s/47Series.pdf
Quote:
Like other mechanical devices, your Wilson Combatģ magazine may be a little stiff when first used. This is normal and should not effect its feeding capabilities, however you will notice that as you use your magazine it will become easier to load and seat in your pistol and it will function even more smoothly over time. If you wish to expedite the break in process simply leave your new magazine loaded to capacity for a day or two, this will pre-set the spring to normal operating tension.
The 8 rounder will probably become easier to seat over time, but will probably never seat as easily as a full size 7 round 47.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2020, 05:06 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
. . . the 8 was having the same issue as my kimpro tac-mag.
Here's the deal. Your 8 round magazine is flush fit. The magazine tube of a flush fit magazine won't extend below the frame. Fully loaded flush fit 8 round magazines are often difficult to seat on a closed slide.

I suggest two things.
  1. Only load 7 rounds into a flush fit magazine
  2. Do some reading at the links I provided above
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:38 PM
jtq jtq is offline
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If you've got to have a flush fit 8 rounder, I'd choose something that uses the Devel follower such as something from the Chip McCormick line-up. That follower will compress a bit and allow a little more squeeze in the tube.
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:26 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
Ö my first 1911 Ö When I load the magazine full(8) it will not latch unless I have my slide locked back. If i take one cartridge out of the magazine it will seat no problemÖ
The 1911 was designed for a flush fit 7 round magazine. Trying to stuff 8 rounds in a tube designed for 7 is a relatively recent development intended to keep the single stack 45 competitive with other higher capacity game guns. They spread like a virus from there to the carry gun market. If you insist on 8 rounds the buy a magazine with a tube designed for 8. Otherwise you will continue to be disappointed.
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2020, 09:21 PM
Nick1curtis Nick1curtis is offline
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The magazine that came with it is designated for 8+1. I’m not trying to stuff anything extra from what the factory told me was intended. I’m going to pick up a few more things f the Wilson 10 rounds because they fit the cleanest so far.
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2020, 11:56 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
The magazine that came with it is designated for 8+1. Iím not trying to stuff anything extra from what the factory told me was intended...
I can understand why you think that. And I did not say that you were trying to put in more than the factory claims it will hold. I'm saying that the factory is just flat wrong at times and this is one of them. 50+ years and hundreds of these owned, worked on, built from the ground up, or sold through my shop tell me different. It is all about marketing.

If the magazine fits flush with the bottom of the frame, then no matter what the factory says, it was NOT designed for 8 rounds. The tube was designed for 7. Demand for more rounds led them to try to stuff in an extra round. Since the tube is still the same size then something had to give. That something is the spring and/or follower. You have to maintain enough spring to elevate the rounds and you have to keep enough follower tab to keep the rounds going up at the right angle without tipping nose down. The space for the rounds was so close to begin with that changes to the spring and follower just does not work reliably. If they do work then you get the problem that you are seeing. And every one of that type that I've seen has failed, sooner rather than later. Now if you have one with a slightly extended tube it is a different story. Those seem to work well.
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:26 AM
megafiddle megafiddle is offline
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It is often overlooked that the magazine is part of the gun.

The 1911 design has a gun capacity of 7+1 with the original flush fitting magazine.

Although you can fit 8 rounds into a flush fitting magazine, you cannot always seat it reliably in a gun while the slide is forward.

You can however use these 8 round flush fitting magazines reliably for reloads while the slide is already locked back.

You can also use these 8 round flush fitting magazines to initially load the gun to maximum capacity of 7+1 without having to top off the magazine after loading the first round. You just need to insert the magazine while the slide is locked back.

With a 7 round magazine, after loading the first round, you would need to pull the magazine and add another round.

-
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2020, 02:49 AM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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I learned over 26 years ago the flush fit 8 rounders don’t always seat with a closed slide. I typically converted some of them to 7 rounders using springs and followers. My pet peeve with them is the weaker mag spring to accommodate the 8th round in the mag. Less spring plus weight of the extra round = nose dive.
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:45 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
Iím not trying to stuff anything extra from what the factory told me was intended.
BBBBill, Magnumite, jtq, megafiddle, and I have been dealing with 1911s for a l-o-n-g time. Probably close to 150 years of combined experience. As with many things, experience is the best teacher. Of course, we all have our own personal preferences but generally speaking you'll be fine with any 8 round magazine that utilizes a slightly extended magazine tube. Examples include Check-Mate, Tripp, McCormick, and Wilson (not the welded base ones).
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:54 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1curtis View Post
The magazine that came with it is designated for 8+1. Iím not trying to stuff anything extra from what the factory told me was intended.
To help clarify what the folks are telling you, in the Wilson full size mag line-up, three examples are the 47, 47D, and ETM mags.

The 47 is a 7 round mag, while the 47D is an 8 round mag, but they share the same tube length. These mags were originally designed to hold 7 rounds, but with changes to the spring and follower they were able to squeeze an extra round into the 47D. It's a relatively tight squeeze, but they did it.

The ETM line-up, on the other hand, was designed from the ground up as an 8 round mag. It has a longer tube than the 47 and 47D mags. It fits 8 rounds more comfortably.

Wilson 47 a 7 rounder https://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-Ma...roductinfo/47/

same tube length with 8 rounds the 47D https://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-Ma...oductinfo/47D/

a longer tube with 8 rounds the ETM https://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-El...oductinfo/500/
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  #17  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:28 AM
1911Rocker 1911Rocker is offline
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Excellent explanation with factual reasoning by BBBBill backup up by several other pros.

Thanks to all of you for your continued input! Always appreciate your insights and tips.
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