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  #1  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:03 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Ahmaud Arbery shooting

I'm only just now starting to read up on this incident, which occurred back in February in Georgia. Two white men, a father and son saw who they thought was a burglar running through their neighborhood after he cut across the property of a house under construction. They grabbed two guns, hopped in their pickup and gave chase. What happened after that is embroiled in a huge debate now, but the men confronted the alleged burglar, Ahmaud Arbery, who was black and who did not have a weapon. A scuffle ensued over a shotgun belonging to one of the men and Arbery was shot and killed. At first law enforcement decided not to press charges, considering it a lawful act of self defense, but in a scenario much like the Zimmerna/Trayvon shooting a public outcry ensued and now the men have been arrested and charged with murder. And of course guess who is representing the dead man's family? Benjamin Crump, the same attorney who represented Trayvon Martin's family.

Unfortunately we have yet another incident that could have been avoided if the men had not decided to chase down an alleged criminal who was no threat to them. The father of the two is a retired LEO, but that now seems to be a point of contention as the local police are being accused of favoritism towards a former member of their department. Apparently Ahmaud Arbery was simply out jogging and a threat to no one, but of course that's all the info we have right now.

Bottom line: if nobody is actually in danger, be a good witness and leave it at that. If you choose to involve yourself with what you believe is a crime in progress be prepared to face the consequences if it all goes completely wrong.
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Last edited by dsk; 05-07-2020 at 10:07 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:49 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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If I got this right these guys (father and son) were NOT cops but the dad used to be. They saw this black guy JOGGING, retrieved guns, chased him down in their pickup truck and shot him. They claimed they thought he might be a criminal. The GBI is looking at it, but it seems that the official point of view NOW is that they deliberately put themselves in an awkward situation and confronted an unarmed man who hadn't done jack. They then shot and killed him. Those two guys are in deep kimchi.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:06 PM
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Deservedly. These fools just gave a giant piece of red meat to the gun-grabbers.
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  #4  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:10 PM
VetPsychWars VetPsychWars is online now
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There is video, too.

They were charged today, as they should have been, and I hope they fry. "Jogging While Black" is not an offense.

How many of us have been taught multiple times to not even pull your weapon unless and until you genuinely fear for your life? Some dude running past, regardless of your suspicion, merits AT BEST a call to the real police.

This kind of crap is why we "Yankees" have been making fun of Southerners for centuries.

Morons.

Tom
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  #5  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:35 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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There is a lot we don’t know. But on what we have been given so far it seems these two left the safety of their home went out and wound up murdering somebody.
There's a 911 call and the mentioned video. I’d like to know if we are only being shown one particular clip or that’s it in its entirety? And even that is glitchy when shown? In it the victim is running down the middle of the street and it seems as if the conflict had already started? We hear three shots. Sure looks to me like the one in the truck bed has a gun too. And it also looks to me like I see a puff of smoke come from that gun when it’s not even pointed at the victim like he misfires it or something? There is talk about a citizens arrest? In the end I think these guys are in big trouble.
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Old 05-08-2020, 01:24 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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There was zero need to go grab guns and chase this guy. Stupid criminal negligence at best, murder one if you consider all the steps they took to get guns, get in the truck, chase the guy, etc., etc.
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:50 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
There is a lot we donít know.
This is true. A lot of people will make judgment before the trial. That is the sad part.

Remember we have seen altered video before... and people lie.

Let the system work.
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Old 05-08-2020, 08:58 AM
Thig Thig is offline
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Originally Posted by VetPsychWars View Post

This kind of crap is why we "Yankees" have been making fun of Southerners for centuries.

Morons.

Tom
I was with you up until this last sentence, this has has nothing to do with Yankee vs Southerner and that is a moronic statement to make. There are more people pulling guns and killing each other up north than there will ever be in the south.
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:49 AM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Originally Posted by VetPsychWars View Post
There is video, too.

They were charged today, as they should have been, and I hope they fry. "Jogging While Black" is not an offense.

How many of us have been taught multiple times to not even pull your weapon unless and until you genuinely fear for your life? Some dude running past, regardless of your suspicion, merits AT BEST a call to the real police.

This kind of crap is why we "Yankees" have been making fun of Southerners for centuries.

Morons.

Tom



Thank you for stating this.

It sure gives some insight as to the measure of your character.....or lack thereof.


You, however, only know that I'm a Southerner and can discern nothing from that.....other than where I reside.





As far as the two morons who were finally arrested months later.....we know for certain that the 25 year old Mr. Arbery would have returned home safely from his jog if these idiots had kept their arses in their own yard...where they belong...fenced up like a couple of yard dogs.


There is no defense, in my opinion, their attorneys can present that will hold up. They had no reason to take it upon themselves to chase him down and brandish weapons. They are fully responsible for everything that happened next. The stupid, misbehaving and unruly need to be on a leash when not confined in their yards.

Imagine, if it had been one of us instead of Mr. Arbery. Going out for exercise and two men pull up in a truck, hop out and commence an assault and draw a shotgun & handgun.

We'd respond to the threat by doing everything in our power to stop it. Most here would have been carrying, too.

Young Arbery was not, but still tried to stop the threat the only way he could.

There is NOTHING the defense for those two scum can muster up as acceptable. NOTHING.

As a Southerner....and a resident of the state whee this occurred....I truly hope that everything surfaces and all relevant facts are discovered and presented. Hoping for the trial to proceed legally with no further shenanigans.

Things are tense, at best, on a good day. If these two scum walk after committing such a horrid crime then there will be horrible repercussions that reverberate throughout the state and beyond. Innocent lives having nothing to do with this will be in danger because of the horrible acts and stupendous judgment demonstrated by these two knuckledragging fools.
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:28 PM
tray burge tray burge is online now
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Originally Posted by VetPsychWars View Post
There is video, too.

They were charged today, as they should have been, and I hope they fry. "Jogging While Black" is not an offense.

How many of us have been taught multiple times to not even pull your weapon unless and until you genuinely fear for your life? Some dude running past, regardless of your suspicion, merits AT BEST a call to the real police.

This kind of crap is why we "Yankees" have been making fun of Southerners for centuries.

Morons.

Tom
Aren't you "Yankees" the ones who put Hillary Clinton in power, the democrat that reps the party of slavery? Maybe you need to look in your own back yard before slinging insults. smh
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:43 PM
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Appalling behavior by father and son. They will very likely pay with life imprisonment. A citizens arrest? Really? Most responsible gun owner have been warned/educated about trying a citizen's arrest REPEATEDLY, at least I was in my Florida CCW course.

Notwithstanding that, there is a huge ruckus about the shooting, Benjamin Chump, the Trayvon Martin family lawyer is calling this identical to the Trayvon shooting which it is not. Zimmerman made no attempt to apprehend Trayvon, nor did Zimmerman lay a hand on that darling little POS.

Anyhow, funny how a White on Black crime gets all the attention and public out cry. Racist hate crime, etc. Yet there are more Black on White homicides and no one hears about those. I'm not making excuses but the attention this gets creates the appearance of overwhelming White on Black killings in the USA.
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:47 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Guys, stop it with the Northerner vs. Southerner crap. We are all Americans. Idiots exist on both sides of the Mason/Dixon Line.
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Old 05-08-2020, 01:47 PM
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Guys, stop it with the Northerner vs. Southerner crap. We are all Americans. Idiots exist on both sides of the Mason/Dixon Line.
Thank you for this, and I'm glad to see your take on it in the OP matches mine. I stumbled onto this on YouTube (of course) and a lot of creators there seemed to think the shooting was 'justified' because Arbery ran in front of the truck toward the shotgun wielding driver, and fought him over his weapon.

But the more I looked into it, the less that jives with my experience as a firearm owner. I carry for self defense. But it's not self defense if I load up a long gun, hop into my truck, force someone to stop and confront them while armed. I would go so far as to say that's offensive action, rather than defensive. Even if that person was in fact a burglar, or trespasser, or whatever. They're no longer on my property, they're no longer a threat to me, I'm not a cop and detaining them is not my responsibility.

I don't need a shotgun to talk to someone. As a matter of fact, anytime I've heard someone shout "Hey! I want to have a talk with YOU!" it's not been someone I want to have a conversation with. To date, the person saying that to me has never been armed - but you can bet that wouldn't aid in convincing me they just wanted a friendly chat.

No, in my estimation those two were dead wrong from the moment they jumped into the truck to play cops 'n robbers. And I've pointed out as much in many of those comment sections.
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:13 PM
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Not a good look for the victim's family, to hire Trayvon Martin's attorney; why would you need a guy whose claim to fame is spinning a fake identity and fake narrative?
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:35 PM
dwcooper dwcooper is offline
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Not a good look for the victim's family, to hire Trayvon Martin's attorney; why would you need a guy whose claim to fame is spinning a fake identity and fake narrative?

I can think of two reasons: first, they don't believe he did either of those, and second, he approached them and promised to represent them for nothing unless there was a settlement.
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:42 PM
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That's my train of thought - he's doing it pro bono for the clout, and they can't afford to say no to free representation. Whether he wins or loses, it gets his name out there and will drum up business.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:05 PM
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Even if the shooters saw Arbery burglarize a house, and gave chase, lethal force is not justified. The reporting suggests that the actual precipitating event was that the shooters thought Arbery looked like someone that had been spotted on a surveillance video. That doesn't justify a citizen's arrest; in fact, attempting a citizen's arrest in those circumstances should result in kidnapping charges. At first glance, it looks to me like the only person justified in the use of lethal force in this episode was Arbery.
Even if it turns out that Arbery was the burglar on the surveillance video, I don't think that changes my interpretation of the shooting.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:19 PM
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Even if the shooters saw Arbery burglarize a house, and gave chase, lethal force is not justified. The reporting suggests that the actual precipitating event was that the shooters thought Arbery looked like someone that had been spotted on a surveillance video. That doesn't justify a citizen's arrest; in fact, attempting a citizen's arrest in those circumstances should result in kidnapping charges. At first glance, it looks to me like the only person justified in the use of lethal force in this episode was Arbery.
Even if it turns out that Arbery was the burglar on the surveillance video, I don't think that changes my interpretation of the shooting.
Exactly. The father-son team said that the victim attempted to take the shot gun away when it was pointed at him as they attempted to apprehend him.

So they think they shot in self-defense. The logic is absurd.

What else could they expect. If he is indeed, an innocent jogger, and has no idea what these two guys want, he has every right to resist. As far as he is concerned it is a kidnapping or robbery, and he (jogger) has the right to stand his ground.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:23 PM
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If the narrative is true, these two should fry!
Arming and loading-up in your pick-up to chase down a man and killing him is premeditated murder! He was no immediate threat to these two D-bags...They took steps completely opposite of the expectation of diffusing the situation. Instead of disengaging and contacting LE they decided to take the law into their own hands, and should pay for their mistake with their lives...I hope the Georgia justice system sufficiently penalizes these two.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:30 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I was not there.

But it smells like a really bad shoot to me. One thing is certain. Good, bad, or otherwise, if those two get off. It will be a long hot summer in Georgia.
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Old 05-08-2020, 05:09 PM
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Now....as far as the deceased's family retaining such a lawyer......all sorts of motivations are likely at play.

One thing is for certain....the fact that the family went two months before an arrest was made in his killing had to be a powerful motivator to make the biggest strides they could.


I certainly can't fault the victims family...there is no telling the anguish they are feeling and the way they are processing the pain is known only to them.








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But it smells like a really bad shoot to me. One thing is certain. Good, bad, or otherwise, if those two get off. It will be a long hot summer in Georgia.

My concern is for what happens next.....many innocent people could be hurt if rioting and other acts of violence spin off from this.

There is already a growing portion of society that's unhinged and unconcerned with the law. Heck, just look at the random violence committed agains law enforcement officers.

This thing could really go from very bad to horrific.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:31 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is offline
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I agree there is a lot we don't know and let the system work. I do think it is safe to say the acorn does not fall far from the stupid tree. Like father like son.
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Old 05-08-2020, 08:55 PM
kcruisin kcruisin is offline
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Well, the way I see it I; if you punch a guy holding a gun on you, you're probably going to get shot. And then, if you try to gain control of the weapon, you're probably going to get shot again.
I don't think a jury in GA would have any problem with that.
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:24 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Well, the way I see it I; if you punch a guy holding a gun on you, you're probably going to get shot. And then, if you try to gain control of the weapon, you're probably going to get shot again.
I don't think a jury in GA would have any problem with that.

I sure hope they have a huge problem with the actions of the shooter.

He had no business forming his 2-person posse and going after the jogger.

He had no ground to stand on by jumping out of the truck and aiming the shotgun at the jogger.

He created the situation by assaulting the jogger with a shotgun. The jogger had a fight or flight decision to make.


25 year old kid amped up from his adrenaline/endorphin rush due to the exercise....in great shape......in those quick seconds he chose to fight and stop the threat.


Had he chosen flight he may have been gunned down.....or the gunman may have jumped back into the truck and quickly caught up with him.


Seconds to decide.....breathing hard and in great shape....I know which choice I'd likely make at 25 years old. I would have probably wound up dead, too.




Thing is that I'm twice this kids age and I've had over two months to think about the situation he was faced with in just seconds.


It's a disgrace that the the DA stopped the police from making the arrest. Some backhanded shenanigans seem to have been at play these past two months. The father's own initial statement warranted them being arrested.


Over two months later the GBI has to step in and take action.


I hope the jury does their part.....and then I also hope the snakepit of the DA's office is cleaned up.


The men's actions resulted in that young man's life ending that day. The son killed him.


Murder ? Manslaughter ?


When a drunk gets behind the wheel and causes a fatal accident....which is it ? Murder? Manslaughter ?


The dead remain dead and the families are ripped apart.



Murder ? Manslaughter ?

That's for a jury to decipher and a judge to sentence. Hopefully there won't be corruption in the trial as well.



The family deserves seeing justice carried out.






The actions of these two fools will impact us all. The leftist political hacks will spin this into more fuel for their next gun-grab initiatives.

It will further damage racial relations.

It is a lightening rod for those looking for corruption.
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Last edited by DubfromGa; 05-08-2020 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:12 PM
Miles42 Miles42 is offline
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in my opinion, bad shoot. hate crime by sleeze bags
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