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  #1  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:44 AM
Steven1127 Steven1127 is offline
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What Does Handgun Skill Mean To You?

I'm trying to figure out what a good end goal would be for handgun skill. What size groups at what distances would you call someone really good with a handgun? I'm not talking about a competitive bullseye person. Probably more like a decent IDPA type of person.

Thanks
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:46 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Sub 5 second fast drill, 1.25 second first round full zone headshot on an IDPA target at 7 yards, .99 or better chest A zone and sub 3 second bill drill
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:55 AM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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2-1/2" @ 25 off sandbags is my goal. Consistantly hitting our "gophers" @ 20yds, hitting a ballcap size rock offhand 2 hands @ 75yds, hitting a moving grasshopper @ 10'.
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Old 02-17-2020, 11:00 AM
vortec vortec is offline
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DVC: Speed, Accuracy, and Power.

Strive for personal best to win in any circumstance, 2nd place loses.
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Old 02-17-2020, 11:18 AM
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There are some tests that are cheap and fairly easy to set up, like the El Presidente, and the IDPA 5x5 classifier; the latter even comes with target scores for their classification system, giving you an idea of your relative skill.
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Old 02-17-2020, 12:03 PM
havanajim havanajim is offline
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Excellent question..... and I'm sure answers will be all over the spectrum. For me, though, handgun proficiency means picking up a handgun, any type of handgun, and repeatedly putting the rounds into 3 inches at 15-yds at a moderate clip. If you can do that, then anything closer becomes almost point shooting in terms of ease, and anything further will still account for solid hits out to 25yds or so. Speed is relative, and more importantly, if you're not careful, relentless pursuit of speed can lead to very bad habits. This is one aspect of competition that I don't believe has been explored deeply enough.
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Old 02-17-2020, 12:15 PM
davidj davidj is offline
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Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:23 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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David has it! Sounds like Bill Jordan!
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Old 02-17-2020, 02:59 PM
RandyP RandyP is offline
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I have somehow managed to maintain MOPP (minute of pie plate) over my 60+ years of shooting. I reckon if ever the need should arise that will be sufficient to attain MOD (minute of dead) against an adversary at common SD distances.

These days I very much enjoy simple plinking and no longer seek or fret over illusive tiny 'groups'.
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Old 02-17-2020, 03:21 PM
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I don’t think there is an end goal. I am constantly trying to improve in one way or another and I have been shooting for close to 50 years. I can no longer draw and make a good hit as fast as I could 15 years ago but I continue to train to do it as fast as my body will allow. Run all kinds of drills during the warmer months and concentrate on bullseye shooting when I’m forced inside in the winter.

So maybe just a little better than you are now and keep upping your standards and then at some point trying to stay as good as your body and eyes allow.

No matter how good you are there are always things to work on.
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Old 02-17-2020, 03:43 PM
Electraclyde Electraclyde is offline
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Originally Posted by RandyP View Post
I have somehow managed to maintain MOPP (minute of pie plate) over my 60+ years of shooting. I reckon if ever the need should arise that will be sufficient to attain MOD (minute of dead) against an adversary at common SD distances.

These days I very much enjoy simple plinking and no longer seek or fret over illusive tiny 'groups'.
I agree, MOPP at 10 yards. Don't care about tiny groups.
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Old 02-17-2020, 03:56 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:11 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by Electraclyde View Post
I agree, MOPP at 10 yards. Don't care about tiny groups.
A 9" diameter can run the spectrum from perfect heart/spine shot to glancing flesh wound....

Rounds within ~3'" of POA @ a 2 rounds per seconds pace is reasonably competent.
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:54 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
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Originally Posted by havanajim View Post
excellent question..... And i'm sure answers will be all over the spectrum. For me, though, handgun proficiency means picking up a handgun, any type of handgun, and repeatedly putting the rounds into 3 inches at 15-yds at a moderate clip. If you can do that, then anything closer becomes almost point shooting in terms of ease, and anything further will still account for solid hits out to 25yds or so. Speed is relative, and more importantly, if you're not careful, relentless pursuit of speed can lead to very bad habits. This is one aspect of competition that i don't believe has been explored deeply enough.
+1
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:21 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Per skill for defense I offer this: After watching a BOATLOAD of real defense shootings filmed by security cameras (mostly on the Active Self Protection YouTube channel) I agree with John, the show's host:

The first person to get "shots on target" almost always wins. This is a very consistent trend.


And by "On Target" I mean hitting the dude. His chest, his butt, his wrist, whatever. Doesn't seem to matter much where. Just a hit on him somewhere.

And by "win" I mean making the guy quit & run off. Not by flat-lining the creep right then & there. Although they often die later, that's not very relevant to the defender.

Yes, I know that you cannot trust this to be the case every time, so a solid hit in a physically incapacitating area is preferred. We should strive to have the skill do do that.

But don't accept the concept that you are essentially unarmed if you cannot shoot like pro. Very few of the people seen in these videos are trained / highly skilled. Most are shop owners or carjacking victims in South America.

They are just folks that have a gun & are willing and able to hit a dude with it. Almost all are at very close range as well. Most are at, as a guess, 6 to 10 feet. Plenty are at 3 feet.

Perps get hit & they run. They are just crooks. They are not fanatical Japanese Island Defenders hoping to die for their emperor.

So, for me, I think I have the skill needed. I'm willing & able to hit a man within a gas station or living room.


This is the civilian world where there's very little Mag-Changing or "going to knives" or any of that melodramatic stuff.

I live near Hollywood, not in it.
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:42 PM
FullySupported FullySupported is offline
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1. I would recommend watching all three John Wick movies at least twice.
2. Watch Dirty Harry so you know what revolvers are about.
3. Go to your range, rent a Desert Eagle in 50 AE, and dump as many mags as you can afford into a paper target 5 feet in front of you as quickly as you possibly can. Don't worry if you miss the target or damage something on the ceiling of the range--that's real world for you.
4. Buy a SCCY in 380 ACP with a purple frame and a box of FMJ range ammo.
5. Load pistol (or have guy in store load it for you, if you can't) and shove it somewhere in your pants. However, if your pants are already below your ass, you might have to put the pistol in a jacket pocket or have your girlfriend put it in her purse for you.
6. By this point you are basically a Seal Team 6/Delta Force/FBI HRT all rolled into one.

:-)
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:51 PM
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Judging by what I see at the public range every weekend, if you can even hit a life-sized human silhouette target at ten paces you're doing better than most.
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:58 PM
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Judging by what I see at the public range every weekend, if you can even hit a life-sized human silhouette target at ten paces you're doing better than most.
And the reason that I don’t go to public or private ranges on the weekend. Back when I was golfing all the time I also avoided golf courses on the weekend.
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:09 PM
DaveVK DaveVK is offline
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doijg it safely

Maybe its assumed by all of the serious responses so far, but the sarcastic one at least touches the topics of safety.

basic rules
keep booger finger off the trigger until safely ready to fire
barrel awarenes
familiar with all action types
ability to manually decock a hammer
safe draw
etc.
then the rest
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:21 PM
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Remember what Wyatt Earp said about winning gunfights... you need to take your time, in a hurry. In other words you mustn't let your quest to be the fastest overtake your ability to be accurate, because that's what counts in the end. Personally I am more impressed with a man who can slow-fire ten rounds into the black at 50 yards than I am some hotshot who can draw and fire at a target several feet away in .5 second.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:30 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Remember what Wyatt Earp said about winning gunfights... you need to take your time, in a hurry. In other words you mustn't let your quest to be the fastest overtake your ability to be accurate, because that's what counts in the end. Personally I am more impressed with a man who can slow-fire ten rounds into the black at 50 yards than I am some hotshot who can draw and fire at a target several feet away in .5 second.

Slow is smooth, smooth is good, good is fast.


Racer's motto around tricky tracks, like Darlington, also.
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:46 PM
Miles42 Miles42 is offline
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center mass.
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:58 PM
Litespeedaudio Litespeedaudio is offline
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https://youtu.be/gCOGhiaW5SA

Clint at Thunder Ranch is my go to guy for shooting advice.

https://youtu.be/H3l6BR4YXKY

I really like the “Till it’s empty “ video
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Old 02-17-2020, 11:28 PM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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watch the shootout in open range. when he walks up to the fancy gunman with a broken arm and shoots him in the head.
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:34 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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If you can shoot consistently with it the MOA constraints of the front sight, I would say you are doing pretty well.

In other words, if youR front sight is 8MOA, 2” groups at 25 yards really is as good as you can reasonably expect.
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