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  #51  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:36 PM
45acpskng 45acpskng is offline
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Bud, if you're worried about trajectory with a 9mm pistol, you're LOST! Buy a rifle!
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  #52  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:15 PM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is offline
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You guys need to quit talking to this guy, he has no idea what he’s talking about or doing.
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  #53  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:21 PM
m/v MOJO m/v MOJO is offline
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1. Heavy bullets, i.e., 147 gr with as low of muzzle velocity as you can find. Heavy bullets give more of a "push" vs. a "flip" with lighter bullets. This assumes you don't add a comp.
2. Tungsten guild rod - get as much weight up front as possible.
3. Light recoil spring. I run an 8 lb in my 9mm DW Specialist. You're really not as worried about muzzle flip as you are wanting the muzzle to come back down to the same point every time. Heavy recoil springs make the slide slam forward fast, causing the muzzle to dip when the gun returns to battery. Test several weight springs with the ammo of your choice to see which one minimizes muzzle dip. A video from the side of the gun firing will help determine this.
4. Install a Nitro Fin gas pedal (if your gun games allow). This replaces the slide stop and gives you a place to put your weak side thumb such that it can place downward pressure on the gun as the muzzle tries to lift. It also helps make sure you get the same grip on the gun every time! See https://www.shootersconnectionstore....est-P5393.aspx
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  #54  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:09 PM
Fatboy46 Fatboy46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven1127 View Post
Using an off the shelf 9mm 4.25" barrel gun, what "mechanical" things yield the most bang for the buck in terms of getting that gun to shoot flatter? Different recoil spring? Hammer spring? Different factory ammo weight? Something else? A combo of things. I'm not asking about gunsmithing type stuff...just things that can be bought and swapped out (without changing the type of barrel).

This post isn't meant to go down the stance/grip/trigger pull route.

Thanks
? view some Jerry Miculek(sp) videos. GRIP and practice. Until you can squeeze the trigger and not move the barrel- don't worry about the sights. Until you can stay on target in rapid fire---don't rapid fire.
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  #55  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:21 PM
Company_Man Company_Man is offline
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[i have read all the posts through quickly]

A lot of interesting advice.

In terms of muzzle flip, we’re starting out with a 1911 Commander of some material. Plastic, alloy, steel?

There’s not many 9mm guns that are going to have less muzzle flip.

You state that it’s a range fun target gun, you bought the wrong one. Get a Steel Govt Model.

Steve- get some pro coaching to assist you with grip, stance, all that. Do not ask the instructor about “flat shooting”, it will cost him, like it did here, about 25 back-and-forths to figure out what your concern is. Say, “muzzle flip and sight follow up shot recovery”.

To directly answer your question, notwithstanding the good mechanical changes suggested by previous posters, there is NOTHING you can do to your gun mechanically (drop-in, no gunsmithing) that will amount to a dime’s difference in felt recoil. Psychologically? Maybe. Reducing the force by 1/2 ounce really means nothing.
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Last edited by Company_Man; 03-04-2020 at 06:47 PM.
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  #56  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:51 PM
Count Count is offline
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Flat shooting

You bought the wrong gun. Period. Sell the gun, and buy another in 357 Sig. It beats the hell out of 9mm in ALL regards (except ammo cost), and is just about the flattest shooting round out there. You asked!
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  #57  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:52 PM
shooter1201 shooter1201 is offline
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I run Magtech's 95gr JSPs at 1400fps through my Kimber Pro Carry and my Ruger SR1911 Lightweight Commander 9mms.
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  #58  
Old 03-04-2020, 07:18 PM
Lorenzo Lorenzo is offline
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Steven, if I understand your question you want to know what modifications you can make to a 9mm 1911 that will reduce felt recoil, but you also want to limit this to drop-in parts excluding gunsmith modifications. You also don't want to discuss technique.

Sorry to be that guy, but you need to reset your expectations. A 9mm 1911 is already one of the easiest handguns to shoot so if you feel recoil is an issue then you probably need work on your technique. Any modification, especially a drop-in part, will be limited to microscopic improvement at best. That's unless you are already performing at a very high level where microscopic improvements will be relevant but I'm going on a limb guessing that's not the case here.

Spend all the money and time you want swapping recoil springs, tungsten guide rods or magic bullets, but the answer unfortunately takes work and commitment to skills development. You can't buy an answer here.
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  #59  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:57 PM
Unsprung2 Unsprung2 is offline
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Muzzle flip

It’s a small thing that makes a big difference for me. I shot & carried .45 & .357 most of my life until a tumor on my cervical spinal cord made them hard to handle safely. I shoot a lot of 9mm now and on my Springer EMP CCC lightweight 4” & 3” .40 I added Wilson Combat spring buffers and it really reduces felt recoil. I also made custom thicker grips, more meat in contact. I shoot better now than pre-surgery! The Wilson Combat EDC X9 doesn’t hurt either! I received 6 titanium/ceramic vertebrae replacements last summer and I feel everything!
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  #60  
Old 03-05-2020, 04:19 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Reducing muzzle flip in a 1911 pistol.....

There have been very good suggestions on how to reduce muzzle flip. IMHO, the best way to reduce muzzle flip is to reduce the power of the load. However, when reducing the power of the load, there are ways to make a 1911 pistol operate properly using very light loads.....

I have been working on making a pistol for shooting action steel that operates with very little muzzle flip without a compensator. In our action steel matches, I have been using a gun with a compensator to reduce muzzle flip, and it works fine, but I am not sure how much the added weight of an STI 2011 Tru Bor Brarrel and comp, affects "transitions" which means moving and stopping the gun on each target. It is easier to use a light load with a lighter gun for transitions but in action steel, two shots need to be fired on each rectangular plate, so reducing muzzle flip is important.

Here is some information about my latest gun build designed to reduce muzzle flip without the need of a compensator. This is a gun used for a specific purpose, which is action steel shooting, and is not designed for concealed carry. For concealed carry, I use a very powerful load.....

My objective was a relatively light gun needed for fast transitions, and a gun that wound function properly using very light 9mm loads.

1) I used an STI 2011 frame with a W/N ramp cut and polymer grip. This set up is lighter than an all steel frame.

2) I took a 5" 1911 slide and cut down the back top of the slide about 1/4"
which helped to reduce weight.

3) I used a standard 5" W/N ramped barrel with bushing....not a bull barrel since I believe even with a steel bushing, it is lighter than a 5" bull barrel.

4) I worked on the slide so it was glassy smooth on the STI 2011 frame with a good fit and close tolerance.

5) I used a round bottom firing pin stop plate to ensure good slide operation and feeding. A round bottom firing pin stop plate offers less resistance for the slide to operate which is needed when using very light power ammo.

6) I mounted a Burris Fast Fire III optic with an 8 MOA red dot to the slide to enable fast sighting acquisition....

7) I used a 17lb. main/hammer spring with a 9lb. recoil spring, which allows very light loads that will function properly.

8) Through reloading, I developed a very light 9mm load that functions properly in the gun. I used a 95 grain FMJ bullet packed with 5.1 grains of Vihtavuori N-340 powder. This load leaves the muzzle at an average 1,130 fps in my gun, which equals a 107 power factor. This load shoots with very good accuracy in my gun. Action steel matches only require hitting the steel, and not to knock down steel targets like pepper poppers or using steel plate racks.....it is similar to Steel Challenge with more steel targets per stage, and only shooting one string with an average of 25 rounds or more needed per stage..... In action steel matches, with rules similar to Steel Challenge, there is no minimum power factor. However, when shooting Steel Challenge matches, there is a maximum velocity on 9mm ammo of 1,600 fps in a pistol caliber carbine.....

I have tested my Action Steel pistol, and it works very well! Another range toy for my Action shooting addiction.....

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 03-05-2020 at 04:33 AM.
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  #61  
Old 03-05-2020, 06:01 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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Steve buy a very nice 22lr like a Hämmerli X-Esse or jass up a ruger 22/45 till it covers your needs and make that your range - match - bullseye handgun . Chances are you will never shoot your centerfire pistol as flat or as well any how .

The OP never did explain why a flatter shoot 9mm commander was so needed or why nothing grip control related or adding a comp was not a possibility !
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  #62  
Old 03-05-2020, 07:45 AM
msmedley msmedley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
"This post isn't meant to go down the stance/grip/trigger pull route."

You have added several qualifiers.

The only thing left is stated above. Small radius FPS and reduced return to battery spring.
Some people prefer lighter bullets some prefer heavier bullets.

Your grip, stance and gun with it's preferred ammo will determine reduced muzzle flip.

Smiles,
^ This
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  #63  
Old 03-05-2020, 07:45 AM
RandyP RandyP is offline
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The OP never did explain why a flatter shoot 9mm commander was so needed or why nothing grip control related or adding a comp was not a possibility !

But the OP did get us all to bite that fast moving lure and generate 3 pages of posts - LOL
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  #64  
Old 03-05-2020, 09:12 AM
Steven1127 Steven1127 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyP View Post
The OP never did explain why a flatter shoot 9mm commander was so needed or why nothing grip control related or adding a comp was not a possibility !

But the OP did get us all to bite that fast moving lure and generate 3 pages of posts - LOL
This post did go off in some directions I was trying to avoid.

When I said shoot flat, I was talking about muzzle flip/recoil, not bullet trajectory.

When I eliminated comps and gunsmithing, it was simply because 1) I'm not putting a comp on my gun and 2) I wanted to know of stuff that I (a non-gunsmith person) may be able to do to the gun.

Regarding the multiple comments along the line of ...wow you must be kidding talking about flip/recoil on a 9mm commander...I never said I was experiencing crazy flip/recoil, I was simply asking how to reduce what flip/recoil there is or if it's even possible to reduce the flip/recoil.

The reason I tried to keep the grip/stance/trigger pull out of this post was not b/c I was implying I have world class mechanics. I know I have lots to improve on and have worked, and will continue to work on having the best mechanics I can muster. This topic was meant to be about a gun, not the shooter.

The origin of the post was pretty simple for me, but apparently not for others I have now found out. I shoot a handgun. I am always on a mission to improve my gun handling skills to get the best out of me. I have a gun. That's part two. Improve my skills is part one and improve the gun (if possible given my constraints) is part two.

No more no less.

All is good on my end and I appreciate the useful insight by the other, more experienced folks.

Happy shooting.
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  #65  
Old 03-05-2020, 09:37 AM
passx passx is offline
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The one thing I haven’t read or simply missed on reducing recoil/flip was fitting a flat bottom firing pin stop, I added one to my EMP4 with noticeable results, you will have to cock the trigger in advance to be able to rack-the-slide easily. It will get easier with use.

Also as stated above I added thicker grips which gave me a much better hold on it. Also I reload my own ammo and I typically shoot 124/125g rounds loaded to 940-980 FPS and quite frankly it shoots as well as I am able and is fairly soft shooting. The emp4 is a 4” barrel by the way.
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  #66  
Old 03-05-2020, 12:49 PM
JNW JNW is offline
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3UVLm2GajI

Watch the above and then buy a variety pack of recoil springs from Wolff.
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  #67  
Old 03-05-2020, 04:27 PM
Pandaz3 Pandaz3 is offline
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I wanted to shoot flatter (Trajectory) at 100 yards, pistol fire. I tried 9 MM with 115 Gr and 124 Gr; 40 S&W 180, 165 and 155 grain; 45 ACP with 230 and 185 Gr.

I felt like I was lobbing the 9 and 45 rounds regardless of weight, the 40 S&W especially the 155 seemed pretty flat. The 9 MM Underwood 124 GD were my best 9, using a 5.25" barrel XDM.
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  #68  
Old 03-05-2020, 04:27 PM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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Common sense is a wonderful thing to have and work with but not everyone seems use it .

Last edited by hardluk1; 03-05-2020 at 04:38 PM.
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  #69  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:07 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven1127 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyP View Post
The OP never did explain why a flatter shoot 9mm commander was so needed or why nothing grip control related or adding a comp was not a possibility !

But the OP did get us all to bite that fast moving lure and generate 3 pages of posts - LOL
This post did go off in some directions I was trying to avoid.

When I said shoot flat, I was talking about muzzle flip/recoil, not bullet trajectory.

When I eliminated comps and gunsmithing, it was simply because 1) I'm not putting a comp on my gun and 2) I wanted to know of stuff that I (a non-gunsmith person) may be able to do to the gun.

Regarding the multiple comments along the line of ...wow you must be kidding talking about flip/recoil on a 9mm commander...I never said I was experiencing crazy flip/recoil, I was simply asking how to reduce what flip/recoil there is or if it's even possible to reduce the flip/recoil.

The reason I tried to keep the grip/stance/trigger pull out of this post was not b/c I was implying I have world class mechanics. I know I have lots to improve on and have worked, and will continue to work on having the best mechanics I can muster. This topic was meant to be about a gun, not the shooter.

The origin of the post was pretty simple for me, but apparently not for others I have now found out. I shoot a handgun. I am always on a mission to improve my gun handling skills to get the best out of me. I have a gun. That's part two. Improve my skills is part one and improve the gun (if possible given my constraints) is part two.

No more no less.

All is good on my end and I appreciate the useful insight by the other, more experienced folks.

Happy shooting.
Opinions are like a holes....and every gun person is one 🙂
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  #70  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:44 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is online now
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How To Get Your 9mm Gun To Shoot As Flat As Possible.....

Start with this:

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