Hex-Tac 2011 .45 recoil spring issue - 1911Forum
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  #1  
Old 02-29-2020, 11:14 AM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Hex-Tac 2011 .45 recoil spring issue

Hello all. I will be posting this in that other 1911 forum as well for widest dispersion and opinion.

I have a NOS HexTac 4.0 in 45acp. Can't get the thing to run. It either has nose-up feeding issues (nose of round goes high and jams prior to entering chamber) or round will not feed into chamber.

Happens with seven different mags.

Happens in middle of mag, end of mag and beginning of mag.

Sent it to a gunsmith who had built STI race guns for some famous IDPA/IPSC/etc. shooters (no, I won't name the smith or his clients)(one is, however, strikingly good looking!!) and he strongly feels the problem is the gun is "undersprung" meaning it needs a stronger recoil spring because the slide is outrunning the current spring. I have the yellow Dawson "heavy" recoil spring installed, no fix.

Gunsmith examined feed ramp and chamber and both are in terrific shape (his words) - neither required polishing or throating.

Before I send this expensive boat anchor back to STI, would anyone have any semi-reasonable suggestions for me?

Thanks

Mike
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  #2  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:44 PM
yeti yeti is offline
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What weight RM spring are you running currently? Do believe Heavy RM is ~14#.

No mention of the extractor or tuning. Seems like the rounds are not controlled well. Extractor test.

Push up on the mag(s) when locked in with slide locked back. Is there substantial up-down play? If so, rest the mag pad on the bench and shoot a few to test. Any improvement?
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  #3  
Old 02-29-2020, 08:25 PM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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I would say lets meet at a range and let me take a look at it, since you are here in the Fort Worth area. I'm not a gunsmith, but I've been shooting these things long enough that I can generally figure out whats wrong with them and hopefully point you in the right direction. As mentioned above, it does sound like the extractor or the feed lips are not keeping your rounds under tension/control.
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Last edited by rangertrace; 02-29-2020 at 08:27 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2020, 12:09 AM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Mr Rangertrace,

We must be neighbors as we live in the same town.

Extractor tension checked perfectly using Wilson Combat extractor test (loose round shaking thing).

Re-tested today with a different recoil spring, purchased from Dawson. They call it the "heavy" recoil spring and it's painted yellow. Not only did it not feed, but now the mags are falling out of the gun during firing. Happened with several mags.

I give up.

Calling STI on Monday; whether or not they approve a return, it's going back to them. Far as I'm concerned this is a very expensive boat anchor and if they don't want to fix the myriad issues with this they can keep it.

Yeah, I'm not a happy camper right now.
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Old 03-01-2020, 07:24 AM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbsigman1 View Post
Mr Rangertrace,

We must be neighbors as we live in the same town.

Extractor tension checked perfectly using Wilson Combat extractor test (loose round shaking thing).

Re-tested today with a different recoil spring, purchased from Dawson. They call it the "heavy" recoil spring and it's painted yellow. Not only did it not feed, but now the mags are falling out of the gun during firing. Happened with several mags.

I give up.

Calling STI on Monday; whether or not they approve a return, it's going back to them. Far as I'm concerned this is a very expensive boat anchor and if they don't want to fix the myriad issues with this they can keep it.

Yeah, I'm not a happy camper right now.
Did it ever run? Did the smith you sent it to, do ANYTHING to it?
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:27 AM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Other than taking it apart and testing it, no, he did nothing. He said he'd seen numerous STIs come through his shop through the years needing a lot of work to get to run. A long time ago I purchased a used Eagle 5.0 at the recommendation of a friend and this gunsmith had to literally gut the damned thing to get it to run. It now runs ok, not great, but ok.

When I told him of the issues and asked him to look at it (there's a trust factor thing going on here) he initially said he sees these things come through all the time with feed ramp or throating issues and said I could send it to him. He examined both and said there was no issue with either. He also checked the extractor tension (as did I) and said it was perfect. He's pretty confident the RecoilMaster is at the heart of the issue as the "heavy" spring is nowhere near what a Commander sized gun needs to slow the slide down and allow the gun to do its feeding. He feels that RecoilMaster needs to be thrown into the trash and a guide rod and heavier Commander spring needs to be fitted.

My question was obviously STI shipped a bunch of these Hex-Tacs and if this was an issue why didn't it consistently show up on other consumer's guns?

In this case, the Hex-Tac was new (never fired) and the damned thing would not run consistently. I have seven - count 'em, seven - STI factory mags (purchased new from Dawson) dedicated to this thing and had malfunctions on all of 'em. Yesterday when I was re-test firing it I had three of the mags (both high cap and one smaller) drop out of the gun during firing strings, on top of the feed issues.

He sent the gun back to me and told me since it's new I needed to ship it back to STI with all the mags to have them fix it.

It will be going back to STI tomorrow. I've heard from some that their customer service can be spotty at best, and although I'm walking in the door with respect, tact and discretion, the bottom line is the gun is returning to them with or without an RMI from them. Like I said in an earlier post, at this point it's nothing more than a boat anchor and they can either fix it or keep it.

I own 15 1911s so this is not my first rodeo; at this price point the damned thing should run.

I sincerely appreciate your offer to shoot it with me, but I have 1425 rounds through it using Federal AE, Blazer Brass and Federal HST and the damned thing will just not run. Not going to waste any more money on it.

Last edited by mbsigman1; 03-01-2020 at 11:33 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2020, 01:13 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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I have a lot of STIís but Iíve only had to use warranty a couple times. STI was great to deal with other than a little lack of communication. They got the guns running 100%.
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Old 03-01-2020, 05:21 PM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Mr Descartian,

Boy howdy, I hope you're right. Maybe they can get this thing to run.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2020, 05:34 PM
soverystout soverystout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartian View Post
I have a lot of STIís but Iíve only had to use warranty a couple times. STI was great to deal with other than a little lack of communication. They got the guns running 100%.
+1911 on this.

just sent my tactical SS 5.0 9mm pistol in for FTRB and even the communication has improved.

They sent me a UPS 2 Day Air label and addressed the issue and sent it back in less than two weeks.

What did they do to it? Not sure as no paperwork came back with the pistol.

The other crazy thing is the sent it back 2 day air with no adult signature needed. I figured I would need to be home to sign but nope, UPS just left the package on my front porch. Kind of uneasy about that aspect.
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:05 AM
ken_mays ken_mays is offline
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Having run into this issue with a Tactical 5.0 in .45, I'm going to bet it's your slide stop. The bullet is probably having trouble getting past the inner lobe of the slide stop. Check it for copper rub marks.

I ended up having to reprofile the lobe to provide clearance for the bullet path.
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  #11  
Old 03-02-2020, 12:08 PM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Hi Ken. Great advice.

Unfortunately, the gun is packaged up so I can't check the slide stop - but I will in the future!

Much to my (very pleasant) surprise, this morning I received an email with a return shipping label and RMA. Gun will go out this afternoon and hopefully they can fix it. From what everyone is saying, they will make it right.

Fingers crossed.

When it comes back we can then discuss how I can get the Dawson grip tape to stick to the grip because right now (well, when I was shooting it) it didn't.

Thanks again

Mike
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Old 03-02-2020, 07:55 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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For about $105 you can send your grip off to Extreme Shooters and have them work their magic. They double undercut the trigger guard then reduce, reprofile and stipple the grip. They are the company that did the grips for STI. I prefer the Costa/TreeBark stipple over the DVC.

Itís the best $100 you can spend on your gun.

I really like grip tape and it has its place but it is not necessarily easy to get it to stick to a stock grip. I much prefer a epoxy adhered Silica Carbide job on a stick grip.
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Old 03-03-2020, 05:20 AM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartian View Post
For about $105 you can send your grip off to Extreme Shooters and have them work their magic. They double undercut the trigger guard then reduce, reprofile and stipple the grip. They are the company that did the grips for STI. I prefer the Costa/TreeBark stipple over the DVC.

Itís the best $100 you can spend on your gun.

I really like grip tape and it has its place but it is not necessarily easy to get it to stick to a stock grip. I much prefer a epoxy adhered Silica Carbide job on a stick grip.
I'm thinking his is a single stack......
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Old 03-03-2020, 06:20 AM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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Says 2011 in the thread subject.
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Old 03-03-2020, 07:45 AM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Says 2011 in the thread subject.
I missed that and that may answer the whole question. I've not heard many good things about double stack .45s. I've also heard mag tuners won't even tune the mags.
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Old 03-03-2020, 11:16 AM
7703 7703 is offline
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I missed that and that may answer the whole question. I've not heard many good things about double stack .45s. I've also heard mag tuners won't even tune the mags.
My .45ACP double stack Eagle runs great. shoot it in Collin County Texas IDPA matches.
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Old 03-03-2020, 04:17 PM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Good for you!! I've never even seen an Eagle in .45.
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Old 03-03-2020, 06:05 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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Originally Posted by rangertrace View Post
I missed that and that may answer the whole question. I've not heard many good things about double stack .45s. I've also heard mag tuners won't even tune the mags.
Iíve ďheardĒ this too but the 3 in 45 that I have function great.
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Old 03-03-2020, 07:32 PM
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I have two STI 2011s (custom builds) in 45 ACP. Both have unramped barrels and function excellent.

Many moons ago a wise old gunsmith told me that ramped barrels in 45 ACP are the devils design and I should avoid using them if at all possible.
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Old 03-03-2020, 08:12 PM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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I have two STI 2011s (custom builds) in 45 ACP. Both have unramped barrels and function excellent.

Many moons ago a wise old gunsmith told me that ramped barrels in 45 ACP are the devils design and I should avoid using them if at all possible.
That has been my experience as well.
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Old 03-04-2020, 10:35 PM
Rizza32 Rizza32 is offline
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My first sti was a 2011 .45 tactical 5.0. Very frustrating experience as it wouldn’t run. Tried to sell or trade multiple times. Finally spent some time with the mags and found that the followers were getting hung up. I hand sanded each follower to each mag. Solved all my problems and now runs like a sowing machine. Either see if u can switch to a 9mm or gonna take some work to get it to run. GL
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:42 PM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Posted the following on the addicts forum; posted here for everyone's edification:

Hi all. The talk about STI's customer service being fast was spot on - got my gun back today.
In speaking with the gentleman who worked on the gun, he found all manner of issues:
1 Throated chamber - was too tight
2 Polished and "adjusted" (his words) feed ramp
3 Found slide stop was being bumped by nose of live rounds (as someone here suggested) and adjusted same
4 Replaced mag release spring - someone at factory had cut some coils off the original spring
5 Adjusted extractor tension.
6 Original 10 round mag was "a piece of junk" (again, his words) so they replaced it with the newer 11 round mag.

Phew!

Will shoot it as soon as I can and report back. I was impressed with the speed of their service and hope this works.

Mike
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:37 AM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Awesome!!
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:50 AM
mbsigman1 mbsigman1 is offline
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Well, folks, with life getting in the way I've been unable to give an update.

Took it to the range and unfortunately, not a whole lot of luck.

Magazines (all of them) continued to fall out of the pistol during shooting, approximately mid way through the magazine.

That's ok, because after I'd picked up the partially full mag and reinserted said mag into the gun, the empty case on the last round of each magazine would conk me in the head upon ejection. Most times it'd smack me in the forehead, sometimes on the left cheek, sometimes on the right cheek, but each last round empty case would smack me.

Emailed STI, and they asked me about my grip. Was my grip actuating the magazine release? Well, no. I own a pile of 1911s (many with over 10K rounds each) and as a part time firearms instructor I kinda know my way around 1911s a bit, so I doubt that was the issue. I even sent them a picture that my wife took of my grip so they could see that my hand was nowhere near the mag release, and even if it was, the mag release was stiff enough to preclude the issue.

They issued an RMI and they have it again.

Between this and the other STI .45 I have, it sure seems I have a black cloud over my noggin when it comes to STIs.

When I get it back I'll report back.
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Old 03-29-2020, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mbsigman1 View Post

Magazines (all of them) continued to fall out of the pistol during shooting, approximately mid way through the magazine.
This is a very common problem for people that dont ride the safety with their right thumb. When I tell people that they are hitting the mag release upon recoil, they insist the gun is broken.

Just saying.
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