Snuck out to the Range: Clapp BlackHawk, WC Carry Comp, DW Specialist, STI Staccato P - 1911Forum
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:30 PM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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Snuck out to the Range: Clapp BlackHawk, WC Carry Comp, DW Specialist, STI Staccato P

I have had a VERY Stressful 3 three weeks at work, well life in general, and I had to clear my head. I grabbed four pistols from my office safe, filled my ever growing range bag with ammo, and headed off to the range!

I'm working on article that examines recoil along more than one dimension. Instead of just looking at the force of recoil; the usual Gun X has mild recoil while Gun Y has strong recoil, I'm also looking at the speed at which the recoil event takes place. Some of the guns I shot today and some of the drills I did are part of my research for this particular article; which will continue over a number of future range visits.

The first gun I shot today, however, had nothing to do with this research. When I was at SHOT Show a few weeks back there was only one gun that really caught my attention and said to me "Log onto Gunbroker and buy me today!" So I did! You would think the strange part about this is the talking gun, but even stranger was the fact that this talking gun was a Single Action Revolver?!?!?! I have literally shot a total of 5 or 6 cylinders of ammo through a Single Action Only Revolver in my entire 51 years. But this was no ordinary Single Action Revolver; it was the new Ruger Wiley Clapp BlackHawk with a non-traditional 4" barrel, matte black finish, XS Big Dot Sights, and 45LC and 45ACP cylinders. It also goes by the name The ClappHawk.


My New Ruger Wiley Clapp BlackHawk with a Non-traditional 4" Barrel and Finish






Today was the first time I shot this Tactical Single Action Revolver. This gun is so much damn fun to shoot, it was very hard to put it away after running over 70 rounds of 45ACP through it. I felt like a kid with a new toy who could not wipe the smile off his face every time I cocked the hammer and let it drop! This thing is also very easy for me to shoot accurately! Looks at these groups!


First Cylinder Fired




As I was wrapping up my session with the ClappHawk, I decided to send the target to the end of the range and see if I could hit it. I was EXTREMELY impressed with the results...




A few months back I was doing some Steel Shooting with my buddy and I shot his STI DVC L 9mm 2011. I fell in love with the STI's fast action, mild recoil and endless capacity! So I bought one. This piqued my curiosity about STI's current 2011 tactical offerings. About a month ago I took a chance and picked up a Staccato P 9mm hoping it would have the same mild recoil and fast slide action. Much to my joy, it did! Not only is the recoil on the Staccato P so mild, the recoil event happens very quickly, meaning the slide cycles faster then my typical 1911 9mm pistols and is back on target very quickly ready for the next shot.


My First STI Staccato P




I was so impressed with the Staccato P, I felt compelled to grab another one last week before then ran out! STI just revamped their entire lineup and changed the Staccato P in ways that I don't care for; I don't like the sights, slide, dustcover, rail, hammer, and grip safety. STI also removed features like the magwell, and the DLC coated barrel. Personally think the Gen1 Staccato P is the better gun when compared to the Gen2. I had put over 1000 rounds through my first Staccato P in the first few weeks I had it. It was no time to take out Staccato P #2 and see if it is of the same quality. Indeed it is!


My Pair of STI Staccato Ps (Gen1) in 9mm




Typical Groups inside 10 yards with the Staccato P Gen1




Where the Staccato really shines, because of its fast action and mild recoil, is rapid-fire drills. It is absolutely effortless to print the kind of double taps pictured below. The gun just doesn't really come off target very much at all in between shots. I simply cannot wait to try this gun out at a USPSA Match!

Double Taps with the Staccato P


Last edited by Harrish; 02-07-2020 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:31 PM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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After firing a few boxes of ammo through the Staccato P, I needed to run a few mags through one of my trusty favorites, the Dan Wesson Specialist Commander 9mm, to inform the article I am working on about recoil. My Specialist is just one of the guns that just feels perfect in my hands, it is also one of my most accurate pistols. Though it's been a few months since I shot it, once I inserted the loaded magazine and raised it toward the target, it felt like I was born with this gun in my hand. Hey, now that I think about it, maybe that's why I had my birthdate engraved in the frame?


Typical Inside 10 Yards Performance




Yesterday I received my most recent Wilson Combat purchase back from Wilson Combat. I had them round the square butt on my new bronze-frame Carry Comp 9mm Compact. I ran 100 rounds through it to help contribute toward the break-in of this particular Carry Comp; I hit 500 rounds today I am also going to be using my Carry Comps heavily in the article about recoil I am working on. While the action may not be quite as fast as the action on my Staccato P, there is no defensive handgun manufactured in 9mm that has recoil as mild as my Carry Comps. The Carry Comp in 9mm is documented to have over 60% less recoil than a typical 9mm carry pistol. There is simply no doubt about it. If you shoot a WC Carry Comp side by side with any other 9mm carry gun you can come can up with, you will see exactly what I'm talking about.





Typical Wilson Combat Carry Comp results inside 10 yards




Spent almost three hours at the range with these four pistols today and enjoyed every second of it! Next time you are felling stressed out at work, I suggest slipping out to the range for a few hours. Golf just doesn't it for me!

Last edited by Harrish; 02-07-2020 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 02-06-2020, 03:11 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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LOVE that ruger. It is on my short list. Never thought I would be excited about getting "the clapp" I had the vaquero birdshead in 45acp and sold it for some dumb reason.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:27 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
LOVE that ruger. It is on my short list. Never thought I would be excited about getting "the clapp" I had the vaquero birdshead in 45acp and sold it for some dumb reason.
LMAO....I know what you mean.

This is Clapp to get exited by, too.


I also let my .45Colt Birdshead Vaquero go. It was one of those guns that just didn't do it for me. The sights were the sole reason....and there was no way around them.

This Clapp version solves that issue and raises the bar hugely. Now I want one....grrrrrrrr.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:45 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrish View Post
After firing a few boxes of ammo through the Staccato P, I needed to run a few mags through one of my trusty favorites, the Dan Wesson Specialist Commander 9mm, to inform the article I am working on about recoil. My Specialist is just one of the guns that just feels perfect in my hands, it is also one of my most accurate pistols. Though it's been a few months since I shot it, once I inserted the loaded magazine and raised it toward the target, it felt like I was born with this gun in my hand. Hey, now that I think about it, maybe that's why I had my birthdate engraved in the frame?


Typical Inside 10 Yards Performance




Yesterday I received my most recent Wilson Combat purchase back from Wilson Combat. I had them round the square butt on my new bronze-frame Carry Comp 9mm Compact. I ran 100 rounds through it to help contribute toward the break-in of this particular Carry Comp; I hit 500 rounds today I am also going to be using my Carry Comps heavily in the article about recoil I am working on. While the action may not be quite as fast as the action on my Staccato P, there is no defensive handgun manufactured in 9mm that has recoil as mild as my Carry Comps. The Carry Comp in 9mm is documented to have over 60% less recoil than a typical 9mm carry pistol. There is simply no doubt about it. If you shoot a WC Carry Comp side by side with any other 9mm carry gun you can come can up with, you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

Typical Wilson Combat Carry Comp results inside 10 yards




Spent almost three hours at the range with these four pistols today and enjoyed every second of it! Next time you are felling stressed out at work, I suggest slipping out to the range for a few hours. Golf just doesn't it for me!






Great guns and great shooting.



You have flung a craving for that Wiley Ruger. Very cool gun.

What type of finish is that ?




I'd like to learn more about the WC Carry Comp pistolas.

I've never shot one.




I know this is an oddball question....but do you think the comp would worsen things in an indoor emergency use in terms of 1) increased sound volume from the upward venting 2) temporary loss of low-light vision


The only reference I have is with hunting.

I've had a ported guns that were insanely loud compared to their non-ported counterparts.

I know that any centerfire round is going to be hugely loud when fired inside....just wondering how much additional volume will assail the shooter ? Would it be enough to alter the shooter's ability to recover and stay on target ?


Also....any trouble with the fiber optic sights used with the comp guns ??? I'm growing mighty fond of fiber optic fronts.




I know these are oddball considerations.

I mean, if you are in a life threatening situation a little more muzzle blast is a distant priority......but the particular hunting guns I shot at game with (with no hearing protection) were enough of an assault to my senses to temporarilycompromise my abilities.

It's not always easy to slip in ear plugs when a deer sneaks in close.

Thankfully now there are some really nice electronic plugs that do very well and can be left in the entire hunt.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:56 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Absolutely doesn't risk any harm to you, you can hold it with the slide touching your chest and fire and the blast is not going to hurt you. Flash is LESS than an uncomped gun by a large margin and it only effects a much smaller section of your vision, comps are nothing at all like porting in those two areas.

You will not be able to tell a difference firing a comped gun vs uncomped with no ear pro, your hearing gets rung out instantly with both so it won't matter at all. I tried it and found no difference at all

Comps are literally cheating my .45 compact with 230g +P HSTs doing 950-70 out of my exact gun have less left recoil and WAY less muzzle deflection than 185g going 990 out of a full-size Ed brown wearing a light a optics (20oz heavier gun). It also has less deflection than a Glock 19 shooting 124 HST, if I opt for normal loadings it's FASTER than my full-size all steel 9mm 1911 in all drills, with my usual it's about a tie except for first shot speed and the FAST drill. Once you try a gun with a comp you will not go back, be warned a comped Glock only has about 12% reduction vs the obscene reduction seen in 1911s, CZs, and SIGs
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:55 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Absolutely doesn't risk any harm to you, you can hold it with the slide touching your chest and fire and the blast is not going to hurt you. Flash is LESS than an uncomped gun by a large margin and it only effects a much smaller section of your vision, comps are nothing at all like porting in those two areas.

You will not be able to tell a difference firing a comped gun vs uncomped with no ear pro, your hearing gets rung out instantly with both so it won't matter at all. I tried it and found no difference at all

Comps are literally cheating my .45 compact with 230g +P HSTs doing 950-70 out of my exact gun have less left recoil and WAY less muzzle deflection than 185g going 990 out of a full-size Ed brown wearing a light a optics (20oz heavier gun). It also has less deflection than a Glock 19 shooting 124 HST, if I opt for normal loadings it's FASTER than my full-size all steel 9mm 1911 in all drills, with my usual it's about a tie except for first shot speed and the FAST drill. Once you try a gun with a comp you will not go back, be warned a comped Glock only has about 12% reduction vs the obscene reduction seen in 1911s, CZs, and SIGs

Thank you for your sharing your experience and knowledge.


I've never fired a comped gun....just ported hunting weapons.


A comped commander would fit just fine in holsters made for 5", I suppose.


I'd looked into the WC .460 Rowland but never really gave the matter much thought for my carry cartridges.

Sounds like it would be a welcome enhancement.
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:49 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Absolutely doesn't risk any harm to you, you can hold it with the slide touching your chest and fire and the blast is not going to hurt you. Flash is LESS than an uncomped gun by a large margin and it only effects a much smaller section of your vision, comps are nothing at all like porting in those two areas.

You will not be able to tell a difference firing a comped gun vs uncomped with no ear pro, your hearing gets rung out instantly with both so it won't matter at all. I tried it and found no difference at all

Comps are literally cheating my .45 compact with 230g +P HSTs doing 950-70 out of my exact gun have less left recoil and WAY less muzzle deflection than 185g going 990 out of a full-size Ed brown wearing a light a optics (20oz heavier gun). It also has less deflection than a Glock 19 shooting 124 HST, if I opt for normal loadings it's FASTER than my full-size all steel 9mm 1911 in all drills, with my usual it's about a tie except for first shot speed and the FAST drill. Once you try a gun with a comp you will not go back, be warned a comped Glock only has about 12% reduction vs the obscene reduction seen in 1911s, CZs, and SIGs

Thank you for your sharing your experience and knowledge.


I've never fired a comped gun....just ported hunting weapons.


A comped commander would fit just fine in holsters made for 5", I suppose.


I'd looked into the WC .460 Rowland but never really gave the matter much thought for my carry cartridges.

Sounds like it would be a welcome enhancement. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/rock.gif[/IMG]
.460 is badass, I have a 5 inch colt in .460 and with 185 at like 1600 or some stupid number like that (1000ish lb/ft) it actually doesn't lift as much as an uncomped .45 but the rearward force is higher.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:02 PM
wc145 wc145 is offline
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I also bought a Carryhawk. You should measure the barrel because it's not 4", it's 4 5/8" like a standard Blackhawk. Ruger says that's the way it is, TALO says "Whoops, our mistake, we just quoted the specs we were given", never mind they're the ones that arranged the guns to be built by Ruger.

When I ordered mine the first one came with all the screw heads chewed up and adhesive all around the front sight and on the barrel, and the finish was marred. I had the dealer return it and get me another. That one had the wrong rear sight blade and the wrong grips. Ruger made good on the sight and grips but neither they nor TALO care that the barrel is not the length they advertised and that shorter barrel is one of the main reasons I bought the gun.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:40 AM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post
Great guns and great shooting. You have flung a craving for that Wiley Ruger. Very cool gun. What type of finish is that?
It is a very cool pistola! I wish I knew exactly what kind of finish it is. In person it looks a lot like Parkerizing, but I don't think it is. It is just some kind of black/blue matte finish. It doesn't seem very durable though. Time will tell though




Quote:
Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post
I'd like to learn more about the WC Carry Comp pistolas. I've never shot one.
It is a must shoot. The difference in recoil issue dramatic, it is hard to go back to shooting non-comped pistols. I have three Wilson Compact 9mm pistols that are not comped, and they have more than twice the recoil of my Carry Comps. In my opinion Wilson leaves a lot on the table in terms of recoil. They could really come up with a much better combination of recoil spring weight, main spring weight, and Firing Pin Safety contour to tame recoil. Dan Wesson clearly engineers out as much recoil as possible from their non-comped 1911 pistols. They are much more soft shooting compared to Wilson's. Dan Wesson has clearly tested different combinations of the three parts I mentioned above to find the perfect combination to minimize recoil as much as possible.

I have replaced those 3 parts on my Colt 1911s with the same weights and shapes DW uses and tamed them considerably.

Bottom line, the Wilson Comped pistols are the softest shooting 1911 carry guns I have EVER encountered by a large margin.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post
I know this is an oddball question....but do you think the comp would worsen things in an indoor emergency use in terms of 1) increased sound volume from the upward venting 2) temporary loss of low-light vision

The only reference I have is with hunting.

I've had a ported guns that were insanely loud compared to their non-ported counterparts.

I know that any centerfire round is going to be hugely loud when fired inside....just wondering how much additional volume will assail the shooter ? Would it be enough to alter the shooter's ability to recover and stay on target ?

Also....any trouble with the fiber optic sights used with the comp guns ??? I'm growing mighty fond of fiber optic fronts.

I know these are oddball considerations.

I mean, if you are in a life threatening situation a little more muzzle blast is a distant priority......but the particular hunting guns I shot at game with (with no hearing protection) were enough of an assault to my senses to temporarilycompromise my abilities.

It's not always easy to slip in ear plugs when a deer sneaks in close.

Thankfully now there are some really nice electronic plugs that do very well and can be left in the entire hunt.
First, the comp on the Wilson Carry Comp does make the report a little louder, but we are NOT talking about a muzzle brake on a 223 or 308 rifle! NOT EVEN CLOSE! It sounds like a 9mm pistol, but a little louder. My FN Five seveN in 5.7x28 is a loud pistol round! Much louder than my comped 9mm. I would even say that 22 mag out of a short pistol barrel is louder than 9mm Wilson Carry Comp. So this is a non-issue.

As far as flash goes, a well-designed comp is not going to produce much of an upward flash on a pistol. Again we are talking about pistol rounds here NOT rifle rounds. I have fired my Wilson Carry Comp in low-light conditions and it produces no more flash than any of my non-comped 9mm pistols with a 4" barrel. There's no situation where you should be firing a gun in complete darkness. It should be well lit enough for you to clearly see your target and what surrounds your target. In those conditions, flash is not an issue. In Pitch black, it's an issue with ANY firearm. But no one should be pulling any triggers in that kind of darkness.

The comp does, however, make the front of the Fiber Optic sight pretty dirty. I have to clean the sight off pretty darn well to get the fouling off. I change out the fiber optic rods pretty often on my carry comps for this reason. I too LOVE and prefer a Fiber Optic front sight and blacked out rear. I have them on every pistol I can put them on.

In order to keep the comp clean and free any fouling, I use the same method as competition shooters. You take some Case Lube, dip a q-tip in it and swab the inside of the comp. Case Lube dries pretty much instantly. It creates barrier between the inside of the comp and the subsequent fouling. After shooting, I spare a little Kroil, or WD-40, or just gun oil inside the comp and swab it out. It looks brand new after each range session. I learned this the hard way. I let all the fouling build up inside the comp on my first carry comp. It basically built up to the point where the comp was unable to do its job as effectively as it should. I had to send the barrel back to WC to have them get the fouling and carbon build up out. They had to refinish the entire barrel!
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:42 AM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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Originally Posted by wc145 View Post
I also bought a Carryhawk. You should measure the barrel because it's not 4", it's 4 5/8" like a standard Blackhawk. Ruger says that's the way it is, TALO says "Whoops, our mistake, we just quoted the specs we were given", never mind they're the ones that arranged the guns to be built by Ruger.

When I ordered mine the first one came with all the screw heads chewed up and adhesive all around the front sight and on the barrel, and the finish was marred. I had the dealer return it and get me another. That one had the wrong rear sight blade and the wrong grips. Ruger made good on the sight and grips but neither they nor TALO care that the barrel is not the length they advertised and that shorter barrel is one of the main reasons I bought the gun.
VERY interesting!
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:23 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Great info on those comped WC models. Thanks Harrish & Striker.

Sure would be cool if they’d offer one in the EDC X9.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:36 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post
Great info on those comped WC models. Thanks Harrish & Striker.

Sure would be cool if they’d offer one in the EDC X9.
Oh trust me. I call on the 3rd of every month to annoy Guy if it's ready yet
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:32 PM
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Revolvers with bird's head grips just look retarded to me, like a midget pushing a cannon.
Just cannot get myself to embrace those.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:24 PM
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Superb gathering of gats, nice shooting too. Iím really diggin the Ruger, .45ACP/.45C convertibles are tons of fun all by themselves.
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:33 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Oh trust me. I call on the 3rd of every month to annoy Guy if it's ready yet
Awesome!!!


Keep up the pressure. Would be a neat gun to see come to market.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:22 AM
joesosnowski448 joesosnowski448 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harrish View Post
After firing a few boxes of ammo through the Staccato P, I needed to run a few mags through one of my trusty favorites, the Dan Wesson Specialist Commander 9mm, to inform the article I am working on about recoil. My Specialist is just one of the guns that just feels perfect in my hands, it is also one of my most accurate pistols. Though it's been a few months since I shot it, once I inserted the loaded magazine and raised it toward the target, it felt like I was born with this gun in my hand. Hey, now that I think about it, maybe that's why I had my birthdate engraved in the frame?


Typical Inside 10 Yards Performance




Yesterday I received my most recent Wilson Combat purchase back from Wilson Combat. I had them round the square butt on my new bronze-frame Carry Comp 9mm Compact. I ran 100 rounds through it to help contribute toward the break-in of this particular Carry Comp; I hit 500 rounds today I am also going to be using my Carry Comps heavily in the article about recoil I am working on. While the action may not be quite as fast as the action on my Staccato P, there is no defensive handgun manufactured in 9mm that has recoil as mild as my Carry Comps. The Carry Comp in 9mm is documented to have over 60% less recoil than a typical 9mm carry pistol. There is simply no doubt about it. If you shoot a WC Carry Comp side by side with any other 9mm carry gun you can come can up with, you will see exactly what I'm talking about.





Typical Wilson Combat Carry Comp results inside 10 yards




Spent almost three hours at the range with these four pistols today and enjoyed every second of it! Next time you are felling stressed out at work, I suggest slipping out to the range for a few hours. Golf just doesn't it for me!
That DW is disgusting

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