Why don't extractors come fitted like this from the manufacturers? - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-08-2019, 12:33 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St Cloud, FL USA
Posts: 1,631
Why don't extractors come fitted like this from the manufacturers?

From Colt and Kimber to Wilson and a Springfield Pro, I've never seen an extractor fitted like this. Specifically, the fact that the hook doesn't touch the case.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-08-2019, 12:53 PM
SFSMedic SFSMedic is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: I.E., CA
Posts: 663
Why don't extractors come fitted like this from the manufacturers?

Because they are mass produced guns and that’s a properly hand fitted extractor. The hook not touching the case helps prevent the case being pushed off the breach face. Along with proper length off the breach face as well of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Brett Cifaldi
Cifaldi Precision
Corona, CA

Last edited by SFSMedic; 06-08-2019 at 03:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-08-2019, 02:56 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
Why don't extractors come fitted like this from the manufacturers?
Because it takes more time and thus more money to fit one as perfectly as Jerry. Instead, they sub-contract out the manufacturing of this part, often times to the lowest bidder, to produce however many hundreds or thousands they think they'll need over some period of time. Then their assemblers (not craftsmen) shove the extractor in the hole and the pistol moves on down the assembly line.

The manufacturers are hoping not too many buyers will send the pistols back under warranty to correct an extractor problem.

I don't think twice about replacing OEM extractors. It's just standard operating procedure for me.

Back in the day Colt employees actually hand fit extractors. Those days are long gone.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 06-08-2019, 03:00 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St Cloud, FL USA
Posts: 1,631
What puzzles me is that I see extractors that have obviously had some hand fitting, but nobody does this. I'm especially surprised I haven't seen it on a Wilson.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-08-2019, 09:57 PM
Wa Jim Wa Jim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Univ. PL. Washington
Posts: 2,921
Most gun owners don't shoot....to any extent.

And when they do its slow and deliberate.
__________________
Peace through Strength.......President R. Reagan

NRA Life Member, Washington Arms Collectors Member, TR&RC Member, GOA Member, IDPA A457315, USPSA A91246. USPSA CRO
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:58 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alabama and Florida, US
Posts: 11,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
What puzzles me is that I see extractors that have obviously had some hand fitting, but nobody does this. I'm especially surprised I haven't seen it on a Wilson.
Perhaps tighter manufacturing tolerances on their parts?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-09-2019, 10:13 AM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,113
Don't forget that case rim dimensions often vary between ammunition manufacturers, so not all will give you that perfect amount of clearance, or even any clearance at all. This level of hand tuning works best when you are building a pistol tailored to specific loads.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-09-2019, 01:04 PM
imjb1911 imjb1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
Because it takes more time and thus more money to fit one as perfectly as Jerry. Instead, they sub-contract out the manufacturing of this part, often times to the lowest bidder, to produce however many hundreds or thousands they think they'll need over some period of time. Then their assemblers (not craftsmen) shove the extractor in the hole and the pistol moves on down the assembly line.

The manufacturers are hoping not too many buyers will send the pistols back under warranty to correct an extractor problem.

I don't think twice about replacing OEM extractors. It's just standard operating procedure for me.

Back in the day Colt employees actually hand fit extractors. Those days are long gone.
What extractor do you replace them with?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-09-2019, 04:51 PM
MDP MDP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 196
EGW extractor that I recently fit in a custom build. These are far from drop in parts. MP Custom
Attached Thumbnails
C1BD6B9F-5FD5-426C-AFD8-E6EC36CFF6C0_1560116893906.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-09-2019, 04:55 PM
MDP MDP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 196
Hard to see in the picture but the extractor is not touching the inside of the case just the rim.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-09-2019, 05:27 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by imjb1911 View Post
What extractor do you replace them with?
I prefer the EGW Heavy Duty extractors. Plenty of extra "meat" in all the right places to get a perfect fit in any slide. By comparison the Wilson Bullet Proof extractor has a small fitting pad which in the two Caspian slides I'm working on now don't allow for the correct deflection to be set.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:00 PM
partsproduction partsproduction is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,216
So much for the "Shake test". So my question is; Is this optimum? Or is the setup with the shake test where the extractor "holds" the case? This is far more important than it may appear as it might answer many FTF problems it seems to me.
__________________
"Can the liberties of a nation be secure, when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"
—Thomas Jefferson
Hardened 416 stainless guide rods for Colt Mustangs, &
416 stainless Sig P-238 & P938 triggers
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:02 PM
partsproduction partsproduction is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,216
Looking see that the back bottom of the groove can still hold the case under pressure, and only the hook is free fitted.
__________________
"Can the liberties of a nation be secure, when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"
—Thomas Jefferson
Hardened 416 stainless guide rods for Colt Mustangs, &
416 stainless Sig P-238 & P938 triggers
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:37 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,764
Tolerances in extractor length, slide length, hook depth, etc., allow for the tip of the hook to ride the case bevel in in-spec guns.
It might be ideal to have the relationship pictured by the OP, but it's not uncommon, and not the end of the world, if the hook contacts the case.
On a lot of guns, you can't shorten or contour the hook enough to prevent it.
I also like the EGW HD extractor, because the hook is closer the breechface than spec extractors, better to ensure the tip of the hook doesn't ride the bevel.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:45 PM
45dotACP 45dotACP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 402
This was on the RRA Polymer 1911 I just picked up. (Awesome gun BTW)

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-11-2019, 06:02 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Eastern West Virginia
Posts: 4,918
Pretty good but not perfect...
Joe
__________________
1911
The original instant emergency response number.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-11-2019, 06:49 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
Pretty good but not perfect...
Jeez, Joe. I don't see any contact between the claw and the case. What are you seeing that I'm missing?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-11-2019, 08:18 AM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St Cloud, FL USA
Posts: 1,631
Looks good to me.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-11-2019, 01:04 PM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Eastern West Virginia
Posts: 4,918
These old eyes may be wrong but the tip of the claw looks like it is AWEFUL close to the case bevel. And the sharp edges on every corner. But this is way better than the vast majority of production 1911s. Didn't mean to damn it with faint praise. How about darn near perfect?
Joe ( suitably chastised...)
__________________
1911
The original instant emergency response number.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-11-2019, 02:02 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,896
I think what you're seeing, Joe, is that the deflection is off by .001".

I too thought the tip was awfully close to the bevel but after zooming in as much as possible I think it's fine.

45dotACP, can you verify that there is no contact between the claw and any point on the case?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-11-2019, 02:09 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St Cloud, FL USA
Posts: 1,631
I noticed that my 9mm's hold the case with the hook and not the wall.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-11-2019, 02:15 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alabama and Florida, US
Posts: 11,154
Sure looks like the outside corner of the claw tip is touching the bevel. Also looks like the hook to breech face dimension is too much. Calibrated eyeball tells me that if the rim is min spec then the hook to breech is about .085" (max spec)-.090". Of course the photo can deceive.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:40 PM
SFSMedic SFSMedic is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: I.E., CA
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
I noticed that my 9mm's hold the case with the hook and not the wall.


That’s proper for 9mm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Brett Cifaldi
Cifaldi Precision
Corona, CA
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-11-2019, 11:34 PM
45dotACP 45dotACP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Sure looks like the outside corner of the claw tip is touching the bevel. Also looks like the hook to breech face dimension is too much. Calibrated eyeball tells me that if the rim is min spec then the hook to breech is about .085" (max spec)-.090". Of course the photo can deceive.

It is probably a bit on the long side. That said, it has passed the 10-8 extractor test so far and I haven't noticed any brass with a dinged up case bevel. I'll probably run it for a competition season and see whether the extractor starts to lose tension and then replace with an EGW HD.

My photography skills could use work, but I could swear the guys at RRA did a little polish work before they sent the gun out.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:23 AM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
I noticed that my 9mm's hold the case with the hook and not the wall.

What he said...
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved