Detonics questions - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-21-2016, 05:09 PM
Thewildman Thewildman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 79
Detonics questions

I recently picked up an early de tonics combat master frame that I intend to build as a project, and I have plenty of questions.


Does anyone know what parts are standard 1911 part, and what I will have to make myself?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-21-2016, 05:53 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,762
In the frame, the hammer strut is shorter than standard, and the "grip plate" replaces the grip safety.
A standard strut can be shortened, and with some effort you can turn a grip safety into a grip plate.
The sear spring is different, and I don't know if you can make one from a standard part.
The slidestop has some unusual contours, in the interest of preventing premature slidelock, I think, but I have seen Combat Masters with standard "1911" slidestops.
The ejector is a long, .45 Gov't part.
The mainspring is shorter than a Gov't part. I'm putting together a complete mainspring housing/magwell for my Combat Master, and I'm going to just cut down a standard spring until it doesn't stack solid when the hammer is all the way back.
Standard parts are hammer (with short spur), sear, disco, trigger, thumb safety, mag release, grip screws/bushings, and pins.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-21-2016, 06:05 PM
Thewildman Thewildman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
In the frame, the hammer strut is shorter than standard, and the "grip plate" replaces the grip safety.
A standard strut can be shortened, and with some effort you can turn a grip safety into a grip plate.
The sear spring is different, and I don't know if you can make one from a standard part.
The slidestop has some unusual contours, in the interest of preventing premature slidelock, I think, but I have seen Combat Masters with standard "1911" slidestops.
The ejector is a long, .45 Gov't part.
The mainspring is shorter than a Gov't part. I'm putting together a complete mainspring housing/magwell for my Combat Master, and I'm going to just cut down a standard spring until it doesn't stack solid when the hammer is all the way back.
Standard parts are hammer (with short spur), sear, disco, trigger, thumb safety, mag release, grip screws/bushings, and pins.
Thank you so much, this helps a ton
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 07-25-2016, 07:01 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Great American Desert
Posts: 23,003
That will be an "interesting" project. Here is my 1984 Detonics next to my 2002 Colt Defender. I changed the grips on both pistols.



And thinking of grips below are the original Detonics wood stocks compared to a full length Gov. sized stock.


__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-25-2016, 07:35 PM
emptymag emptymag is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,936
Assuming the OP wants to build a stumpy .45acp...
modifying regular 1911 parts to fit the short CM frame will be easy compared to sourcing quality/affordable magazines... that work.
I would research the magazines before proceeding with such a project.
If you revert to just using longer Officer's or Gov't model magazines, then using that frame, along with all the special parts/mods needed...
would be a wasted effort.
__________________
'99 Colt CCO, Colt Officer's ACP Enhncd, Springfield LWT Compact compensated .45, Springfield LWT Compact Night.45, Kimber Super Carry Pro, Kimber Ultra .40, Kimber Combat Carry .40, Beretta 92C, Caspian/Fusion .38 Super LWT Officers Hybrid ported, M&P PC ported .40 CORE, M&P 2.0 Compact .40, S&W 4040PD, S&W 65-5 3", S&W 625-6 & 629-2 Mtn Guns.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-25-2016, 09:16 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,762
I have only two CM mags, and four officers mags; only the one in the gun "needs" to be flush-fit, and I use the officers mags, and even gov't mags, more than the short ones.
I spent three hours on Saturday cutting-down a pair of gov't grips to fit; I'd rate a grip source as highly as a source for mags.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-25-2016, 09:39 PM
whiffledust whiffledust is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Posts: 702
Hope you have plenty of money for CM parts are scarce and pricey........

ps - I have 2 gen 1 mags, 3 gen 2 mags and a dozen Metalform, (one w/ a really nice plastic pinky finger rest - which I wish I could find more of, the rest feature anyway - all these came from the new Detonics company) I got 5 spare CM recoil systems and even one complete slide/barrel/assembly, also from the new Detonics company (and it would have to be fitted to the one new Detonics CM that weights a ton more than the originals, is ugly as sin but appears to shoot good and is very reliable, but so fat it don't fit my holster).

I could kick myself for not buying more of their grips when I could as I only bought 2 sets of them....... but then I have several sets of original take-offs and one original Pachmayr
__________________
Whiffledust off
NRA Life/Endowment Member
NRA RSO, Pistol & Personal Protection Instructor
TSRA Life Member
LEAA Life Member

Last edited by whiffledust; 07-25-2016 at 11:30 PM. Reason: added ps
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:21 PM
emptymag emptymag is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,936
Alumagrips USED TO make grips for Detonics (and STI's Rogue/LS9/LS40),
but it looks like they don't offer them anymore... bummer.
Ebay has grips and mags;
wood grips for about $30,
Pachmayrs for $65,
crappy aftermarket mags are "all over the place" for pricing... as some sellers are saying they are original mags because they say DETONICS on the bottom,
true original mags are $150, and up.

I think Brownells still sells the proper formed stainless rounded magazine followers (Pachmayr 1911 .45acp, $6 or $7?)
and Wolff sells replacement Combatmaster mag springs.

Looks like METALFORM lists TWO offerings for 5 round 'officers' mags, with "CM" in their part numbers...
SKU: 45CM.273 (blue/black, removable base, flat follower),
and 45CM.733 (stainless, welded base, flat follower).
Those may be worth looking into.
__________________
'99 Colt CCO, Colt Officer's ACP Enhncd, Springfield LWT Compact compensated .45, Springfield LWT Compact Night.45, Kimber Super Carry Pro, Kimber Ultra .40, Kimber Combat Carry .40, Beretta 92C, Caspian/Fusion .38 Super LWT Officers Hybrid ported, M&P PC ported .40 CORE, M&P 2.0 Compact .40, S&W 4040PD, S&W 65-5 3", S&W 625-6 & 629-2 Mtn Guns.

Last edited by emptymag; 07-25-2016 at 11:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-26-2016, 12:59 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,762
It used to be that you could be pretty certain that stainless mags marked "Detonics/.45 ACP" were factory original mags, and anything else was aftermarket or "fake", but there apparently are some factory mags that are marked "Auto" rather than "ACP", so you're back to caveat emptor.

Even after Metalform was making "factory" mags for Detonics USA, the Combat Master mags sold under their own brand name were built to older, New Detonics specs. If you can't find D-USA mags (probably $$$), you can make a decent facsimile by cutting a slot in the baseplate to accommodate a Pachmayr follower.

I emailed Metalform about those 5-round mags, and they are no longer available.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-26-2016, 09:24 PM
Stevegr Stevegr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 115
detonics mags

I have 6 OE mags I only use for CCW - for range use I modify Kahr K625G mags - only a slight trim to the baseplate, and about .020 off the left side at the top where it can bind the slide stop. 6 rounds with a pinky rest for about 30 bucks - the only downside is sometimes the last empty come straight back. Way more robust than the aftermarket crap mags.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-04-2016, 04:50 AM
Thewildman Thewildman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 79
Will one of you guys who has a factory detonics pistol and a pair of calipers take a few measurements for me please? I need the length of the main spring and the length of the Hammer strut. I would greatly appreciate this
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-04-2016, 09:21 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,762
I'd be happy to do it, if I weren't 2000 miles from my pistol, right now.
I've had my gun apart a half-dozen times over the last two weeks, installing grips and a S&A magwell.
I wanted a complete set of internals for the S&A, so I can just swap MSHs as units, and the Combat Master mainspring is not just a shortened "1911" spring. I bought a 23# mainspring, cut it down to CM length, and it is considerably weaker, and stacks solid after less compression than the factory Detonics mainspring.
The coils on the Detonics spring are more widely spaced, and I haven't had a chance to measure the wire diameter.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-07-2016, 11:24 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Great American Desert
Posts: 23,003
Nice article on Detonics. Part of it discusses parts that are similar and different.

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/detonics.htm
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-07-2016, 09:09 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,762
I wrote it.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-10-2016, 01:48 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Great American Desert
Posts: 23,003
Good article. Thanks for writing it.

I just picked up another little guy I am roughly dating to 79-80, but I could be wrong. It has a serial number of I 52xx and there is a space between the I and the 5.



So far I have just field stripped it and inspected it more than I did in the gun store then cleaned and lubed it. I have just function tested the little guy with 230gr FMJ so far. In the near future I will no doubt do a detail strip on it. I plan on leaving it alone except for new springs maybe and am thinking of a flat MSH as I have Pachmayr flat rubberized housings bought back in the late 70s to early 80s in my parts box.
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:32 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Great American Desert
Posts: 23,003
O.K. Here is pretty much a detail strip on a 1980 Combat Commander to sort of remind us was sort of normal looks like.



And here is pretty much a detail strip on that Detonics I recently bought.




The hammer struts are different as noted in the posts above. Here comparing it to the hammer an strut out of the 1980 Commander. Interesting that the one in the Detonics looks like it was ground off. If I measure the distance from one end to the other with calipers I get 1.520 inch with the Detonics hammer strut.



The main spring housing is the same as a Commander or Gov but the main spring is shorter. Here comparing it to the Commander again. It also looks like the mainspring cap is a little shorter.



The firing pin stops are a little different.



But I found a regular FPS would work find but just stick up above a bit so grind it off there.



The sear springs are different and not sure about making one from a regular sear spring. Numrich has the Detonics sear spring in stock so maybe better to just order one there. They also have the FPS and the slide stop in stock now so maybe better to order if you can.



The non grip safety filler might be a hard part to fabricate if one needed that. Here are some pictures.



And......



And......



Anyway have fun with your project.
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:36 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Great American Desert
Posts: 23,003
Almost forgot the grips. If one had the skills and wanted a new set of grips I don't think it would be real hard to modify a set for a Gov or Commander. Not that I would cut down a set of Colt grips, but they are there for comparison.

__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-14-2016, 07:43 PM
AreB AreB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,709
I love looking at those stumpy oldsters. Detonics really did pave the way.

One of my fantasy builds would be cutting/welding a LW frame to Detonics CM specs, then fitting a contemporary 3" top end. Believe that would produce the smallest/lightest 1911 possible, with some degree of interchangeable parts and reasonable potential for reliability. Maybe use Para P-10 MSH/MS/grip safety for more borrowed stuff + retention of functional grip safety.

Anyone built one this way?

Last edited by AreB; 08-14-2016 at 07:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-14-2016, 10:59 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post
Almost forgot the grips. If one had the skills and wanted a new set of grips I don't think it would be real hard to modify a set for a Gov or Commander. Not that I would cut down a set of Colt grips, but they are there for comparison.
I spent three hours on a Saturday morning cutting-down a set of Government grips. I had very basic tools, and though it turned-out OK, don't think I'd do it again without being able to accurately locate the initial hole location; I drilled everything undersize so I could "adjust" as I went.

__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.

Last edited by RickB; 08-14-2016 at 11:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-26-2016, 08:49 PM
Thewildman Thewildman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 79
Hey guys , how far into hell am I going if I decide to have the trigger gaurd squared on an already modified(extended dustcover) combat master frame ?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-28-2016, 02:06 PM
UltraFudd UltraFudd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptymag View Post
Alumagrips USED TO make grips for Detonics (and STI's Rogue/LS9/LS40),
but it looks like they don't offer them anymore... bummer.
Alumagrips still makes grips for the Detonics CM. I ordered a set about a week ago and Chris (the owner) e-mailed me following the order asking which exact model pistol I had.

He said all their compact grips are custom one-off orders and would take about two weeks. I'm getting a set of smooth black grips for my OM-3.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-28-2016, 06:02 PM
AreB AreB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,709
Prestige Grips lists two types of smooth carbon-fiber grips for the Detonics CM frame, finger groove and conventional panels.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-30-2016, 10:46 PM
Bones 123 Bones 123 is online now
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: PNW
Posts: 8
Don't be deterred. I've got two CM's a Mk 1 and Mk 6 (.451/.45 combo).

You can find mags from Triple K or Numrich.

I always carry a backup mag, a Chip McCormack 8 rounder.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-31-2016, 08:25 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Behind the lines in Occupied Central CA
Posts: 984
My "Detonics". It's actually a hybrid. Essex made Detonics style frame mated to a Colt Officer's Model upper. Frame was purchased years ago as a frame only. Grips are from Numrich.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-20-2016, 02:12 PM
Thewildman Thewildman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 79
So far it is an interesting project, but it seems I am the guy who would figure out how to complicate a pistol that you already have to custom make parts for.

A previous owner lengthened the dust cover, so it may actually work with the government slide I have sitting there with rifle sights mounted on it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved