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  #26  
Old 04-28-2014, 03:33 AM
The Tourist The Tourist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilibreaux View Post
and a pocket knife is NOTHING like a REAL FIGHTING KNIFE.
...and this is where the logic of the argument goes sideways for me...

You have no idea how many times I hear this. A client approaches me with a request, "I need a knife for deer hunting season--and oh, yes, it should also be good for defense and knife fighting..."

Did you know that they also sell insurance to protect your home from a crashing UFO? Of the two, that might be a better buy. As remote a chance as it might be, there might indeed be UFOs. But there ain't no knife fightin' goin' on, because with knife forums and social media, we'd have heard about it long before now.

So what exactly is a REAL FIGHTING KNIFE? Well, if you're riverboat gambler and live near a sandbar, I guess a Bowie knife is fine. You'll need a time-machine first. If you're terrorizing a small town in a PTSD fit while chewing the scenery, I opine a Jimmy Lile knife would be a good choice--until Colonel Trautman shows up in the last scene.

A Sicilian stiletto is always good. Do you socialize well with a gay Broadway dance troupe while singing "Maria" because that's the last knife fight I remember.

Get my point? Knife fighting is at its worse exposure to blood borne pathogens and at its best an urban legend. It denigrates serious cutlers and guys in the knife industry. The encompassing insanity and misinformation is why we cannot take a SAK onto an airplane. It's the genre of zit-faced virgins and poser wannabees.

I'll be more than happy to sell you the best knife fightin' pigsticker on the planet. It'll sit in your closet and never be used. Then again, roofs are expensive and UFOs might exist...
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2014, 07:28 AM
glocktogo glocktogo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
...and this is where the logic of the argument goes sideways for me...

You have no idea how many times I hear this. A client approaches me with a request, "I need a knife for deer hunting season--and oh, yes, it should also be good for defense and knife fighting..."

Did you know that they also sell insurance to protect your home from a crashing UFO? Of the two, that might be a better buy. As remote a chance as it might be, there might indeed be UFOs. But there ain't no knife fightin' goin' on, because with knife forums and social media, we'd have heard about it long before now.

So what exactly is a REAL FIGHTING KNIFE? Well, if you're riverboat gambler and live near a sandbar, I guess a Bowie knife is fine. You'll need a time-machine first. If you're terrorizing a small town in a PTSD fit while chewing the scenery, I opine a Jimmy Lile knife would be a good choice--until Colonel Trautman shows up in the last scene.

A Sicilian stiletto is always good. Do you socialize well with a gay Broadway dance troupe while singing "Maria" because that's the last knife fight I remember.

Get my point? Knife fighting is at its worse exposure to blood borne pathogens and at its best an urban legend. It denigrates serious cutlers and guys in the knife industry. The encompassing insanity and misinformation is why we cannot take a SAK onto an airplane. It's the genre of zit-faced virgins and poser wannabees.

I'll be more than happy to sell you the best knife fightin' pigsticker on the planet. It'll sit in your closet and never be used. Then again, roofs are expensive and UFOs might exist...
I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Most of the guys asking for a good defense/"fighting" knife don't really know what they're looking for or how they'd use it. However, in a pinch it might be pressed into service to save a life.

I've actually spent time in training on surviving edged weapons and a bit sparring with knife trainers. I've studied actual knife attacks and listened to survivors recount their tales. I've treated a knife attack survivor until paramedics arrived. She very nearly died at the hospital. It's pretty horrific. A few points that seem to come up over and over:

Rule #1 in a knife fight, you're gonna get cut.
Most knife wounds are defensive in nature.
Most serious knife wounds are thrusting punctures to the torso.
Most of those are not immediately incapacitating, though they may lead to death.
In cases where common kitchen knives (and to a lesser extent, flimsy pocket knives) are used as makeshift weapons, they break often enough to merit notice.
When using knives not suited to the task or if inexperienced, the attacker will frequently cut themselves with their own knife.
Most hunting knives by design will perform adequately as a "fighting" knife.
Killing someone with a knife is harder than it looks. Most fatal knife attacks display tremendous savagery in their execution.
An experienced knife fighter can kill you pretty quickly with a 1" blade. Most amateurs would need at least a 6" blade to effectively kill or incapacitate.
The larger a knife is, the easier it is for an experienced fighter to take it away from you.

Overall, I'd never want to tangle with anyone holding a knife. I'd be seriously concerned facing someone with a basic Buck 110 folding hunter. While I prefer fixed blades for defensive carry, in many cases they're just not practical out of uniform (I carry a TDI behind my double mag pouch on duty).

In folders, A Benchmade AFCK is a pretty good defensive knife. My preferred EDC folder is the Benchmade 805 TSEK. Both are quick to deploy and have good overrun protection with the deep finger groove. They also have good strike points at the butt for use as a striking tool. Most knife trainers rightly point out that effectively deploying a folder in a fight is almost impossible. However, on more than one occasion I've palmed my TSEK in Condition Orange while egressing a potentially harmful situation (usually out of state on vacation, where carrying a gun is problematic). I tend to dislike self-deploying folders (wave device) for this reason. I might want to palm a knife but not immediately open it.

Overall, it's not a bad idea to have a good sturdy folder that can be used for defense if necessary. Just don't expect it to be a magic wand and understand the stakes involved in using it as such!

Last edited by glocktogo; 04-28-2014 at 07:31 AM.
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2014, 08:02 AM
The Tourist The Tourist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Most of the guys asking for a good defense/"fighting" knife don't really know what they're looking for or how they'd use it. However, in a pinch it might be pressed into service to save a life.
You might not know it, but that's the excuse and justification. The guy pleads innocence and adds, "Well, just in case." There are more people who have been killed and trampled by runaway circus elephants than have been subjected to knife fights. How come everyone doesn't carry a 600 Nitro Express? You know, just in case?

I think we should start a thread. For example, over the winter my wife got rear-ended by a snowplow. Since that time we have compiled a file of estimates, a doctor's appointment, two inspections (one for our insurance, one for the driver's insurance) and a myriad of phone message. Everything has left a paper-trail.

So if a guy claims to have been in a knife fight, let's give him the floor here. He'll have an arrest record, or a case number from the police, a receipt from the ER where he was treated with the med-recs, a court appearance, some newspaper clippings and possibly some jail time which is also a public record.

In other words, it's the easiest thing in the world to prove--or for us to expose.

I don't have to "claim" to be married, I have a Marriage Certificate. I don't have to "claim" to be a biker, I have two bikes you can see and 40 year old colors so crusty that stand by themselves. I don't "claim" to be a sharpener, you can come to Madison and watch me do it.

But tens of thousands of guys like me work in the cutlery business. And right now the political climate tends to "blame the weapon." Look at all of the nonsense spit out about black rifles. The issue here is that there isn't any knife fighting, but a small vocal bunch of chest-thumpers has convinced the public anyone with a knife is an aggressor.

A few weeks ago I went to drop off some forms to my tax guy. Their office now lists knives as prohibited.

You might also be too young to remember 1958. That's when switchblades were made illegal due to knife fighting. Oh, not in public among real people, but in two Hollywood movies!

If the knife duelers have the right to boast about this nonsense, then the good guys in cutlery should have the right to expose the fraud.
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  #29  
Old 04-28-2014, 11:05 AM
glocktogo glocktogo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
You might not know it, but that's the excuse and justification. The guy pleads innocence and adds, "Well, just in case." There are more people who have been killed and trampled by runaway circus elephants than have been subjected to knife fights. How come everyone doesn't carry a 600 Nitro Express? You know, just in case?

I think we should start a thread. For example, over the winter my wife got rear-ended by a snowplow. Since that time we have compiled a file of estimates, a doctor's appointment, two inspections (one for our insurance, one for the driver's insurance) and a myriad of phone message. Everything has left a paper-trail.

So if a guy claims to have been in a knife fight, let's give him the floor here. He'll have an arrest record, or a case number from the police, a receipt from the ER where he was treated with the med-recs, a court appearance, some newspaper clippings and possibly some jail time which is also a public record.

In other words, it's the easiest thing in the world to prove--or for us to expose.

I don't have to "claim" to be married, I have a Marriage Certificate. I don't have to "claim" to be a biker, I have two bikes you can see and 40 year old colors so crusty that stand by themselves. I don't "claim" to be a sharpener, you can come to Madison and watch me do it.

But tens of thousands of guys like me work in the cutlery business. And right now the political climate tends to "blame the weapon." Look at all of the nonsense spit out about black rifles. The issue here is that there isn't any knife fighting, but a small vocal bunch of chest-thumpers has convinced the public anyone with a knife is an aggressor.

A few weeks ago I went to drop off some forms to my tax guy. Their office now lists knives as prohibited.

You might also be too young to remember 1958. That's when switchblades were made illegal due to knife fighting. Oh, not in public among real people, but in two Hollywood movies!

If the knife duelers have the right to boast about this nonsense, then the good guys in cutlery should have the right to expose the fraud.
Technically, all that's required to be in a knife fight is to have been cut by someone with unlawful intent. Contrary to what you're saying, emergency rooms across America would readily dismiss your claim that more people are trampled by circus elephants. Most major urban ER's will see knifing victims every weekend, payday and full moon.

No, the typical fantasy of dancing gangs with switchblades having a rumble isn't realistic. Most knife fights occur around bars and domestic altercations near the kitchen. Staying away from those two situations will cover 99.9% of all knife fight risk. However, the question is still valid. If you happen to be in a place where it's illegal to carry a gun and you're backed into a corner by someone with a knife, would you rather have your bare hands, a flimsy slipjoint pocketknife, or a robust locking folder?

I don't carry a gun because I expect to get into a gunfight when I walk out the door. Where I'm not legally allowed to carry a gun, I don't carry a TSEK because I expect to get into a "knifefight". Both are nothing more than reasonable risk mitigation using common tools appropriate for the potential task. You yourself admitted that insurance was involved with your wife's vehicle accident. The gun and knife are merely portable insurance policies. While I don't use my gun as a prybar or a hammer, I might cut the odd thing here or there with the TSEK. Unlike you, I don't go out of my way to find things to cut every day.

I feel better walking out the door with a G-19 than a P-32. I feel better walking out with a TSEK than a stockman. Nothing more, nothing less.

Last edited by glocktogo; 04-28-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2014, 01:41 AM
NoJoy NoJoy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle
Age: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilibreaux View Post
How many consider a sword an essential part of any survival kit?
I'm not talking fancified machetes, or quasi-swords, I mean the real deal.
I personally believe the Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass, or 1917 Sabre are "must have" tools for every BOB.
Cold Steel 1055 medium carbon steel is spring tempered and will handle an amazing level of abuse. They can be used to chop brush and tree limbs...even chop down trees, yet they are also a viable part of the survival arsenal. When people are in close a sword is an amazingly deadly weapon.

Oh, and not to "diss" other makes of swords...I own a couple of Cheness swords that are superbly made from 9260 silicon spring steel and 1095 HIGH carbon steel...and both are THE REAL DEAL...
The collective "we" does not like to abuse our swords, but if it came to survival of course we're bringing these bad boys to the party!
For a Cutlass, I want this:

http://www.zombietools.net/shop/dcapitan/

I have their Felon bowie style knife, and its the real deal.
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  #31  
Old 04-30-2014, 11:33 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
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Actually I think that I will look pretty cool.

I am trying to decide if a Mace or a Claymore looks better with my chain mail Cuirass. I am also building a Trebuchet for my artillery unit.
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