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  #101  
Old 04-01-2014, 08:15 PM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
I answered from the start, you just want set statute, that I dont have (maybe a lawyer could find the Federal and State rules that allowed it. Just like a cerfew, set times call for set rules/law. I pointed you the area's that covered it. I pointed out that it has changed. You are using an updated law to argue the past. Did you not find any statutes to reference or look further into? Maybe Pres Bush and his government need to be made as criminals, same for the Gov of LA, ad Mayor of N.O.
The reason you do not have a statute is because one does not exist Cav.

That is the whole point.

YOU are the one who stated that those in Texas who OC/display long arms during emergencies would have their weapons taken. When asked for the statute, you have hemmed, hawed, and cited statutes that were either non-applicable or in opposition to your statement.

Like DT said, as a LEO you are charged with enforcing the statutes/laws/ordinances as written,
Quote:
It's fair to ask for the legal derivation of a police officer's power; as it was explained to me in training, "Everything we do derives from that book (ILCS 720, in this case) making it illegal. We have no authority beyond it or beside it, and we don't get to rewrite it; we just enforce it."
Not department "ROE's", "SOP's", or what YOU would do that is in violation of your State's law as well as federal law.

Finally, this thread WAS about Katrina AND the lessons learned. YOU brought Texas into this when YOU made your post, as a LEO rep from Texas, that YOU would violate your fellow citizens by illegally confiscating their long arms that are being openly being carried (which is legal in Texas BTW) just because it's a "state of emergency." All that was asked was a statute citation supporting your position

What happened in N.O during Katrina and the actions you stated you would take are why federal law (FEMA that you referenced earlier) now specifically address and prohibit such actions.

Have a nice evening Cav
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  #102  
Old 04-01-2014, 08:26 PM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
I answered from the start, you just want set statute, that I dont have (maybe a lawyer could find the Federal and State rules that allowed it. Just like a cerfew, set times call for set rules/law. I pointed you the area's that covered it. I pointed out that it has changed. You are using an updated law to argue the past. Did you not find any statutes to reference or look further into? Maybe Pres Bush and his government need to be made as criminals, same for the Gov of LA, ad Mayor of N.O.
You asserted the right to do something under color of law; it's not our job to find where it's prohibited, it's your job to know where it is authorized. After all, we're not the ones claiming we can/will disarm law-abiding citizens.


Larry
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Government, Anarchy and Chaos
  #103  
Old 04-01-2014, 11:00 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Well, the original post was what have we learned since Katrina.

I'll tell you what I learned.

I learned that there are Cops, Mayors and Congressmen who looted New Orleans under cover of their authority. Jeffers utilized National Guardsmen to go get illicit cash out of a freezer in his home. Nagin was found guilty of corruption for his part in things.

I learned that there were a lot of people who resorted to their baser nature and refused to help themselves or their neighbors.

I learned that "Responders" illegally confiscated firearms from Law Abiding Citizens, depriving them of their Right and Ability to defend themselves and their families.

I learned that Oprah will lie on national tv and then never apologize for it.

So one of the things I learned is that if such a disaster happens here in Kansas, I won't surrender my firearms to anyone and I'll band together with my neighbors to keep our community safe.

I guess if someone claiming to be a "Responder" tries to confiscate my firearms, we'll deal with that when or if it happens.

I know one thing. If they try confiscating my firearms, I'll quit letting them use my boat to rescue people from the floods and I'll quit running it to help them.

My boat has rescued dozens of people over the years, including one of the County boats that died.

Amazingly, nobody has ever told me I couldn't be out there helping "the Responders" evacuate people.

And I know that the last time it was used, the little old lady who needed dialysis and couldn't get out of her home surrounded by flood waters was pretty glad we showed up with it.
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Last edited by NonHyphenAmerican; 04-01-2014 at 11:36 PM.
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  #104  
Old 04-01-2014, 11:41 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Originally Posted by DivePanama View Post
The reason you do not have a statute is because one does not exist Cav.

That is the whole point.

YOU are the one who stated that those in Texas who OC/display long arms during emergencies would have their weapons taken. When asked for the statute, you have hemmed, hawed, and cited statutes that were either non-applicable or in opposition to your statement.

Like DT said, as a LEO you are charged with enforcing the statutes/laws/ordinances as written,

Not department "ROE's", "SOP's", or what YOU would do that is in violation of your State's law as well as federal law.

Finally, this thread WAS about Katrina AND the lessons learned. YOU brought Texas into this when YOU made your post, as a LEO rep from Texas, that YOU would violate your fellow citizens by illegally confiscating their long arms that are being openly being carried (which is legal in Texas BTW) just because it's a "state of emergency." All that was asked was a statute citation supporting your position

What happened in N.O during Katrina and the actions you stated you would take are why federal law (FEMA that you referenced earlier) now specifically address and prohibit such actions.

Have a nice evening Cav

Things are a case by dealing. While you might think you can care for yorself, many more will turn to the Government.

What the people dont want is armed groups that become vigilanties, or take over set places.

For those in Texas, they will see Law Enforcement and the National Guard in force at first. Saving/evac of those who need it is #1, then #2 becomes protecting property. Helping those who decide to stay is below protection of property untill later stages. If you go out armed onto public places durring the first stage, be ready to have your guns taken or be shot. Why are you there? What are you doing? Sure like CJ Grisham you can argue its your right. A Judge will question why you caused a scene for first reponders and might give a max sentance for the cause of arrest.

I get you own a gun and feel you have a right to walk the streets. Only you were told to leave/depart the area, first responders are on scene trying save real lives and property, and you are just being you tossing a cog in the gears. Why walk around with a rifle off your property? Attention? Walking target for others?

Unless your area has no emergency plan set up, play nice and stay at home with your bullet launcher and guard what you own, others will be taking the risks for you. I know those evil members of the government that try to save people that could not save themself, who needs the Military and Law Enforcement right, when you and your neigbors have a team that can do the same...
  #105  
Old 04-02-2014, 05:05 AM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
If you go out armed onto public places durring the first stage, be ready to have your guns taken or be shot.

Wow. Just when I think you've bottomed out, you manage to surprise me.

People ask for the legal basis for a statement you made, and your response is, essentially, a threat of lethal force. This sounds like something a fascist regime would say, not an American police officer.


Larry
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  #106  
Old 04-02-2014, 06:36 AM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
Things are a case by dealing. While you might think you can care for yorself, many more will turn to the Government.
Which in no way authorizes you as a agent of government to disarm law abiding citizens.

Quote:
What the people dont want is armed groups that become vigilanties, or take over set places.
Being armed does not make one a vigilante. By your twisted logic, then no one should armed at anytime.

Quote:
For those in Texas, they will see Law Enforcement and the National Guard in force at first. Saving/evac of those who need it is #1, then #2 becomes protecting property. Helping those who decide to stay is below protection of property untill later stages. If you go out armed onto public places durring the first stage, be ready to have your guns taken or be shot. Why are you there? What are you doing? Sure like CJ Grisham you can argue its your right. A Judge will question why you caused a scene for first reponders and might give a max sentance for the cause of arrest.
First off, no citizen should need to justify to you or any other agent of government their "need" to be armed, emergency or not. Second, your badge does not authorize to to murder, and yes, I said murder, citizens who lawfully carry just because you do not like having citizens having the means to defend themselves available during times of emergency.


Quote:
I get you own a gun and feel you have a right to walk the streets. Only you were told to leave/depart the area, first responders are on scene trying save real lives and property, and you are just being you tossing a cog in the gears. Why walk around with a rifle off your property? Attention? Walking target for others?
Cav, you do not "get" absolutely anything about this conversation. BTW Cav, here in WV we had folks, during the derecho a couple of years back, who only owned long arms and carried them initially everywhere they went. This was also a "state of emergency" event. At no time was there ever any talk of "shooting" or "confiscating" just because of the sight of a firearm. Considering I worked for USCOE at the time and was part of the initial responder effort and worked with state LEA's then, I can say with 100% accuracy you are basically full of it at this point and if anything, you are a threat to your fellow citizens.

Quote:
Unless your area has no emergency plan set up, play nice and stay at home with your bullet launcher and guard what you own, others will be taking the risks for you. I know those evil members of the government that try to save people that could not save themself, who needs the Military and Law Enforcement right, when you and your neigbors have a team that can do the same...
You obviously have a messianic complex and should not even be in the field of law enforcement.

Good day Cav
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Last edited by DivePanama; 04-02-2014 at 02:11 PM.
  #107  
Old 04-02-2014, 06:38 AM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
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Originally Posted by DT Guy View Post
Wow. Just when I think you've bottomed out, you manage to surprise me.

People ask for the legal basis for a statement you made, and your response is, essentially, a threat of lethal force. This sounds like something a fascist regime would say, not an American police officer.


Larry
Well at least he is out in the open now where everyone can see him for what he truly is.

Luckily the number of outstanding and lawful LEO's in this country do not reflect his values.

Respect
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  #108  
Old 04-02-2014, 10:00 AM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by DivePanama View Post
Well at least he is out in the open now where everyone can see him for what he truly is.

Luckily the number of outstanding and lawful LEO's in this country do not reflect his values.

Respect
I think it's an important point; this is NOT the typical American police attitude. While I can be as hard on a police officer who's made a mistake as anyone, I'm the first to admit that the vast majority are trying to do the right thing every day, sometimes in 'no win' situations.'

On the other hand, I notice no other active LEO's are disputing what's been posted in this thread...sort of disheartening.


Larry
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  #109  
Old 04-02-2014, 10:39 AM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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I find it extremely interesting that the same people who tell us they can't do anything about illegal intruders in our country because it's too big of a problem, think that they're going to be able to roll over armed American Citizens whenever they like because they are "The Law".

There's a heckuva a lot more Armed American Citizens than there are illegal intruders.

And I'll tell you what else.

Around here, the "First Responders" are most often the Mennonite Disaster Relief folks.

Armed LEO's and/or National Guard have never been seen here in my home town and before we got the flood levy built, we flooded 22 times in 17 years.

Not ONCE in 22 instances did we EVER see any of those "LEO's" or "Nat Guard" "Responders".

We evacuated folks with our own boats.

We pumped out houses with personal pumps or MDR pumps.

We sandbagged (I believe that may be the ONLY thing from "The Govt" we got was the bags) homes, businesses and infrastructure all on our own by getting on the blister end of shovels and filling them.

The Greensburg Tornado? The "First Responders" were the locals pulling themselves out of the wreckage.

The local tire guy who'd lost his brother, opened up his tire shop, minus the roof and most of the walls and fixed/repaired flats for all the "First Responders".

Do you s'pose anyone tried jacking him up about the shotgun he'd salvaged and used as protection if needed?

I probably shouldn't state this, but I'm going to anyway.

All of those "First Responders" that come in and think they're in charge and that they get to ride roughshod over the local Citizens? They try confiscating arms somewhere other than an area that's totally dependent on the corrupt Democrat led government handout programs and they might just get themselves spanked and sent home without THEIR firearms.
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  #110  
Old 04-02-2014, 12:13 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Originally Posted by DT Guy View Post
I think it's an important point; this is NOT the typical American police attitude. While I can be as hard on a police officer who's made a mistake as anyone, I'm the first to admit that the vast majority are trying to do the right thing every day, sometimes in 'no win' situations.'

On the other hand, I notice no other active LEO's are disputing what's been posted in this thread...sort of disheartening.


Larry
You might find our Military and Police know the real deal and have no desire on a gun forum to engadge with a vocal minority.

Last edited by CavCop; 04-02-2014 at 12:16 PM.
  #111  
Old 04-02-2014, 01:09 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Originally Posted by NonHyphenAmerican View Post
I find it extremely interesting that the same people who tell us they can't do anything about illegal intruders in our country because it's too big of a problem, think that they're going to be able to roll over armed American Citizens whenever they like because they are "The Law".

There's a heckuva a lot more Armed American Citizens than there are illegal intruders.

And I'll tell you what else.

Around here, the "First Responders" are most often the Mennonite Disaster Relief folks.

Armed LEO's and/or National Guard have never been seen here in my home town and before we got the flood levy built, we flooded 22 times in 17 years.

Not ONCE in 22 instances did we EVER see any of those "LEO's" or "Nat Guard" "Responders".

We evacuated folks with our own boats.

We pumped out houses with personal pumps or MDR pumps.

We sandbagged (I believe that may be the ONLY thing from "The Govt" we got was the bags) homes, businesses and infrastructure all on our own by getting on the blister end of shovels and filling them.

The Greensburg Tornado? The "First Responders" were the locals pulling themselves out of the wreckage.

The local tire guy who'd lost his brother, opened up his tire shop, minus the roof and most of the walls and fixed/repaired flats for all the "First Responders".

Do you s'pose anyone tried jacking him up about the shotgun he'd salvaged and used as protection if needed?

I probably shouldn't state this, but I'm going to anyway.

All of those "First Responders" that come in and think they're in charge and that they get to ride roughshod over the local Citizens? They try confiscating arms somewhere other than an area that's totally dependent on the corrupt Democrat led government handout programs and they might just get themselves spanked and sent home without THEIR firearms.
You say "around here the first responders are". Now my city is about 100,000 people, and we care for ourself. But the City of Houston is about 2.2 Million people, add Beaumont, and the Rita area that went to Port Arthur and into LA, and you have way more people than the whole state of Kansas that is about 2.8 million people for the whole entire state.

The whole deal with Katrina and Rita is its major hubs, not small communities. When I responded to the floods in Eastland, we had no cerfews or weapon issues, as it was small town and spread out. It is the totality of the situation. As stated a few times now, every situation is different.
  #112  
Old 04-02-2014, 01:13 PM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
You might find our Military and Police know the real deal and have no desire on a gun forum to engadge with a vocal minority.
That could be. Of course, it could also be that they know your position is wrong, but the 'thin blue line' prevents them from ganging up on you.

Or it could be they're embarrassed by a fellow LEO who seems to think phrases like 'know the real deal' trump written law, and so prefer to see you flounder on your own.

Being wrong is human; I'm wrong all the time. When I find out I'm wrong, I try to learn what I missed, and do better the next time. If I take a position that isn't supported by facts, and someone shows me the correct position, I adopt it; sometimes with an apology, if appropriate.

But being stubbornly, insistently and unwaveringly WRONG is a character flaw that becomes dangerous when someone is given some authority, or some power. It's a man who will argue his opinion against facts that poses the most danger, especially when he states he's prepared to enforce his opinions with deadly force.

My dad always said, when talking about admitting mistakes with my brother and I, "Even a Porsche has a reverse." Your dad apparently did not.


Larry
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  #113  
Old 04-02-2014, 01:25 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Originally Posted by DT Guy View Post
That could be. Of course, it could also be that they know your position is wrong, but the 'thin blue line' prevents them from ganging up on you.

Or it could be they're embarrassed by a fellow LEO who seems to think phrases like 'know the real deal' trump written law, and so prefer to see you flounder on your own.

Being wrong is human; I'm wrong all the time. When I find out I'm wrong, I try to learn what I missed, and do better the next time. If I take a position that isn't supported by facts, and someone shows me the correct position, I adopt it; sometimes with an apology, if appropriate.

But being stubbornly, insistently and unwaveringly WRONG is a character flaw that becomes dangerous when someone is given some authority, or some power. It's a man who will argue his opinion against facts that poses the most danger, especially when he states he's prepared to enforce his opinions with deadly force.

My dad always said, when talking about admitting mistakes with my brother and I, "Even a Porsche has a reverse." Your dad apparently did not.


Larry
Do you have any idea what happened with Katrina, what orders were given, and what laws were changed? Read up the orders given to the Military, the warning from the governer, and what a fw years later the courts rulled as far as taking weapons. You might read the Feds only had issues with going door to door, and the governer gave orders to shoot and kill looters to the Military. Right/wrong, who knows, its not your small town, its a major city, where you would be run over in a second.
  #114  
Old 04-02-2014, 01:43 PM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
Do you have any idea what happened with Katrina, what orders were given, and what laws were changed? Read up the orders given to the Military, the warning from the governer, and what a fw years later the courts rulled as far as taking weapons. You might read the Feds only had issues with going door to door, and the governer gave orders to shoot and kill looters to the Military. Right/wrong, who knows, its not your small town, its a major city, where you would be run over in a second.
Errr, I work in Chicago? To me, YOU'RE the 'hick'.


And none of this changes that you keep repeating things you cannot support in law; don't tell me to go study laws, I'm not the one misquoting stuff and asserting an authority to do illegal things to law-abiding citizens.

Larry
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  #115  
Old 04-02-2014, 01:48 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
Right/wrong, who knows, its not your small town, its a major city, where you would be run over in a second.

All the more reason not to live in the major cities then.

When the Rights of Citizens, even after the laws have been changed, quoted, and read up on, can be 'run over' by the "First Responders", then it's past time to change things up on a permanent basis.

The last tornado in this region that did major damage, I donated and delivered 2000 pairs of leather work gloves, 2000 construction grade dust masks and 2000 waxed cardboard boxes with attached lids to the affected area. On my own dime.

Maybe I should re-consider doing that the next time.

The "First Responders" evidently will have everything handled on their own.

As evidenced by Katrina, there's certainly enough people willing to sit back and wait for "The First Responders" to bail their butts out of trouble while threatening those who take care of themselves with arrest or shooting.

Hey Cav Cop?

Wanna good deal on 2000 each pairs of leather gloves, dust masks and waxed cardboard boxes?

Evidently, I won't be needing to continue storing them for the next disaster in the local region.

After all, the "First Responders" will save us all.
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I leave this rule for others when I'm dead, Be always sure you're right THEN GO AHEAD! Davy Crockett
  #116  
Old 04-02-2014, 02:07 PM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT Guy View Post
I think it's an important point; this is NOT the typical American police attitude. While I can be as hard on a police officer who's made a mistake as anyone, I'm the first to admit that the vast majority are trying to do the right thing every day, sometimes in 'no win' situations.'

On the other hand, I notice no other active LEO's are disputing what's been posted in this thread...sort of disheartening.


Larry
I completely agree and also have noticed no other LEO's that frequent this forum have come to his defense

That is also why I made the point that the vast majority of LEO's in this country are outstanding members of our society who do the best they can trying to uphold the laws of this nation. Cav in my opinion, based on many of his posts, is not one of those. JMHO.

Take care
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  #117  
Old 04-02-2014, 02:23 PM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by DivePanama View Post
I completely agree and also have noticed no other LEO's that frequent this forum have come to his defense

That is also why I made the point that the vast majority of LEO's in this country are outstanding members of our society who do the best they can trying to uphold the laws of this nation. Cav in my opinion, based on many of his posts, is not one of those. JMHO.

Take care
I have friends who have, and have myself, bled to try to hold the 'thin blue line' against what Col. Cooper called 'the Goblins.' I think many of us here have, whether as LEO or military; that's why I have so much trouble with someone saying "I'm right because I'm doing it" in this context.

We are a nation of laws. As such, our law enforcement is rightly judged on the integrity and fidelity with which they enforce those laws. Some have made profound sacrifices to do so, and we need to keep that in sight.


Larry
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  #118  
Old 04-02-2014, 07:26 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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This is pretty much the way that I see it.

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Originally Posted by DT Guy View Post
That could be. Of course, it could also be that they know your position is wrong, but the 'thin blue line' prevents them from ganging up on you.

Or it could be they're embarrassed by a fellow LEO who seems to think phrases like 'know the real deal' trump written law, and so prefer to see you flounder on your own.

Being wrong is human; I'm wrong all the time. When I find out I'm wrong, I try to learn what I missed, and do better the next time. If I take a position that isn't supported by facts, and someone shows me the correct position, I adopt it; sometimes with an apology, if appropriate.

But being stubbornly, insistently and unwaveringly WRONG is a character flaw that becomes dangerous when someone is given some authority, or some power. It's a man who will argue his opinion against facts that poses the most danger, especially when he states he's prepared to enforce his opinions with deadly force.

My dad always said, when talking about admitting mistakes with my brother and I, "Even a Porsche has a reverse." Your dad apparently did not.


Larry
Thank you for saving me the effort.
  #119  
Old 04-02-2014, 07:29 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I am with you on this one also.

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Originally Posted by DT Guy View Post
Errr, I work in Chicago? To me, YOU'RE the 'hick'.


And none of this changes that you keep repeating things you cannot support in law; don't tell me to go study laws, I'm not the one misquoting stuff and asserting an authority to do illegal things to law-abiding citizens.

Larry
No offense Cav Cop. but you claim a lot of things that are pretty far fetched.
  #120  
Old 04-02-2014, 07:31 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I think that you hit the nail on the head Panama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivePanama View Post
I completely agree and also have noticed no other LEO's that frequent this forum have come to his defense

That is also why I made the point that the vast majority of LEO's in this country are outstanding members of our society who do the best they can trying to uphold the laws of this nation. Cav in my opinion, based on many of his posts, is not one of those. JMHO.

Take care
I really do.
  #121  
Old 04-02-2014, 07:53 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Thumbs down

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Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
You might find our Military and Police know the real deal and have no desire on a gun forum to engadge with a vocal minority.
CavCop,

I've served both inside the Prison system and on the road as a Deputy Sheriff and I disagree with you on almost every point that you have tried to make here.

You do not speak for me Sir. You do not represent the opinion held by the majority of people that I have known and worked side by side with for the last 24 years.

When it comes to opinions such as yours, there is no "thin blue line" for me and I find your opinion offensive and completely out of line. And these are my views and my views alone and they in no way reflect the position or opinion of this forum, the owner or any of the other staff members. This is my personal opinion only.

You have been and continue to be way out of line here on this subject.


Fin

Last edited by M4finny; 04-03-2014 at 04:08 AM.
  #122  
Old 04-04-2014, 01:38 AM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by M4finny View Post
CavCop,

I've served both inside the Prison system and on the road as a Deputy Sheriff and I disagree with you on almost every point that you have tried to make here.

You do not speak for me Sir. You do not represent the opinion held by the majority of people that I have known and worked side by side with for the last 24 years.

When it comes to opinions such as yours, there is no "thin blue line" for me and I find your opinion offensive and completely out of line. And these are my views and my views alone and they in no way reflect the position or opinion of this forum, the owner or any of the other staff members. This is my personal opinion only.

You have been and continue to be way out of line here on this subject.


Fin
The Prision system, and even a county deputy, is different than a major city. Would you give prisioners baseball bats? A disaster tends to be like opening up the prision yard, the big dogs come out to play and the others stay in their cells.

Small towns and rural areas are different than a major city. Can you not get that in places like Los Angles, Chicago, NY, Houston, New Orleans, major population centers that having armed people in masses mixed with a disaster is like tossing fuel on a fire.

This subject is mostly about Katrina, a major US city. The looting was out of control as was people shooting at first responders. Texas took the bull by the horns with Rita. My unit entered Houston as the storm was clearing and secured financial area's. TX DPS occupied major retailers parking lots. Those who were there or have seen pictures should know that things were done in the best overall intrest.

Stay on your property and be armed. If going off your property use your CHL. If going out and about with a long gun just because you can, well Dawin claims a lot of folks. A disaster is not where you want to show off your armed off property.

Its like drunk person, why do they get arrested? Is it the harm they might do to others, or themself (its a little bit of both).
  #123  
Old 04-04-2014, 06:22 AM
M4finny M4finny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
The Prision system, and even a county deputy, is different than a major city. Would you give prisioners baseball bats? A disaster tends to be like opening up the prision yard, the big dogs come out to play and the others stay in their cells.

Small towns and rural areas are different than a major city. Can you not get that in places like Los Angles, Chicago, NY, Houston, New Orleans, major population centers that having armed people in masses mixed with a disaster is like tossing fuel on a fire.

This subject is mostly about Katrina, a major US city. The looting was out of control as was people shooting at first responders. Texas took the bull by the horns with Rita. My unit entered Houston as the storm was clearing and secured financial area's. TX DPS occupied major retailers parking lots. Those who were there or have seen pictures should know that things were done in the best overall intrest.

Stay on your property and be armed. If going off your property use your CHL. If going out and about with a long gun just because you can, well Dawin claims a lot of folks. A disaster is not where you want to show off your armed off property.

Its like drunk person, why do they get arrested? Is it the harm they might do to others, or themself (its a little bit of both).
So now even my experience is not good enough I see.

And your attempt to compare prisoners to law abiding citizens is very telling. It strikes at the crux of the entire argument now doesn't it?

You really can't see the difference between the two groups can you? In your world, everyone is guilty and everyone is suspect. And that's a sad way to go through life on the job.

You and I are polar opposites. Good luck on the job, stay safe.

Fin
  #124  
Old 04-04-2014, 10:59 AM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Virginia, surrounded by good folk. Still trying to figure out the rebel flag deal in a state that fought for the Union LOL.
Age: 57
Posts: 5,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
The Prision system, and even a county deputy, is different than a major city. Would you give prisioners baseball bats? A disaster tends to be like opening up the prision yard, the big dogs come out to play and the others stay in their cells.

Small towns and rural areas are different than a major city. Can you not get that in places like Los Angles, Chicago, NY, Houston, New Orleans, major population centers that having armed people in masses mixed with a disaster is like tossing fuel on a fire.

This subject is mostly about Katrina, a major US city. The looting was out of control as was people shooting at first responders. Texas took the bull by the horns with Rita. My unit entered Houston as the storm was clearing and secured financial area's. TX DPS occupied major retailers parking lots. Those who were there or have seen pictures should know that things were done in the best overall intrest.

AStay on your property and be armed. If going off your property use your CHL. If going out and about with a long gun just because you can, well Dawin claims a lot of folks. A disaster is not where you want to show off your armed off property.
BIts like drunk person, why do they get arrested? Is it the harm they might do to others, or themself (its a little bit of both).
Even though a mod here has discerned this last post quite well IMO, two statements by you are extrememly telling.

Statement A: I know many here in WV who are legal gun owners who do not have CHP's. They are also very isolated rurally. So by your standards they do not have the right to be off their property even though they can legally OC? (BTW, both long arms and sidearms are legal to OC here. Part of the reason why texas does not inpress me at all ) This has nothing to do with "showing off" Cav. This is about the natural born right to self defense. If there ever was a needed "justification" for this right, a state of emergency should fill that bill, even for you.

Statement B: So someone who is legally carrying openly is just like a drunk person????? Do you even read what you write here

Like the mod, I wish you nothing but a safe duty. I also wish, for the sake of your fellow citizens, a short and uneventful career in law enforcement and hopefully you will find a job field that is more suited to your character that has little to no possibilty of being capable of infringing on your fellow citizens civil liberties. The fact that you are so dismissive of a fellow LEO here whose credentials are well known on this forum is quite disappointing and highlights your misplaced arrogance. Blind arrogance in the important position of authority and trust that has been placed on LEO's is very dangerous IMO.

Good luck
__________________
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Last edited by DivePanama; 04-04-2014 at 11:03 AM.
  #125  
Old 04-04-2014, 12:36 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivePanama View Post
Even though a mod here has discerned this last post quite well IMO, two statements by you are extrememly telling.

Statement A: I know many here in WV who are legal gun owners who do not have CHP's. They are also very isolated rurally. So by your standards they do not have the right to be off their property even though they can legally OC? (BTW, both long arms and sidearms are legal to OC here. Part of the reason why texas does not inpress me at all ) This has nothing to do with "showing off" Cav. This is about the natural born right to self defense. If there ever was a needed "justification" for this right, a state of emergency should fill that bill, even for you.

Statement B: So someone who is legally carrying openly is just like a drunk person????? Do you even read what you write here

Like the mod, I wish you nothing but a safe duty. I also wish, for the sake of your fellow citizens, a short and uneventful career in law enforcement and hopefully you will find a job field that is more suited to your character that has little to no possibilty of being capable of infringing on your fellow citizens civil liberties. The fact that you are so dismissive of a fellow LEO here whose credentials are well known on this forum is quite disappointing and highlights your misplaced arrogance. Blind arrogance in the important position of authority and trust that has been placed on LEO's is very dangerous IMO.

Good luck
This is about disasters right? I mean we are talking about Katrina and what we might have learned. I am not talking rural area's and I am not talking rainy days. I am talking major population hubs and major disasters. You seem hung up not on the situation at hand, but on my statements, taken out of context.


Just answer this for me, if you were in Katrina's zone and in N.O., with the Military and Police being shot at by armed gangs and thugs running the streets and looting, would you go outside and walk around with a long gun away from your property (like over a block away)? Why or why not? Where would you go?

Because to me its like a drunk that wants to walk home from the club, there is a high chance of trouble. You might cause it or it might find you. A drunk can feel he needs to challange others, a drunk can wander into danger he is not ready for, a drunk can be seen by others as a target and get taken for his property.

I am a very fair officer. I do my best not to take guns from people. I can retire with pay today if I wanted to, in 3 years I can retire with full perks. I stand up for self defense shootings. Truth be told if you ever had a shooting in my area, you would want me working the case. But my views also are from a safety stand point. My opinion many times is not popular, but it will save you from a bad dealing with other officers that might not be veteran officers and are quick to shoot or arrest. Unless you live in small town, many bigger city police are quick to take action.
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