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  #51  
Old 11-19-2013, 06:26 PM
Smokers Smokers is offline
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I live in Southern California. No hurricanes or tornadoes but plenty of earthquakes. Earthquakes are not kind enough to give us a warning. Being prepared is the only thing you can do. I received citizen's training by our fire department and was told not to expect any help for at least three days in the event of a major earthquake. Have water and food for at least a week.

After the earthquake I'm more concerned with those who are not prepared. We've already seen the police couldn't control Los Angeles after the Rodney King riots. Looting and burning in some parts of the city was only stopped by armed citizens. Hopefully we won't have to worry about looters and predators but it is something I think about.
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  #52  
Old 11-23-2013, 06:48 PM
Hardballing Hardballing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
I don't care how long your family has lived wherever, if it is in a high risk flood zone, side of a mud mountain, on top of an earthquake fault, or near a dangerous industrial business you take your chances. While I feel sorry for anyone who suffers a loss, it was completely their choice to live in a hazardous area. To me you have completely accepted responsibility for your actions, or lack of them.
Hmmmmmm.

So that means anyone living next to train tracks because they routinely move hazardous cargo via rail. Or next to an airport, because planes can and do crash. Or near refineries, or cargo terminals (either rail, or shipping). Or near military bases where WMD's may be stored or prepped. Or near the New Madrid fault that spans IIRC from AR to New England.

So basically anyone not living in Phoenix? Hope the water table never has an issue there or you'll join the list too I'm thinking. And I've visited Phoenix, if you think some of your neighborhoods will be any different in an emergency...uh...how about I sell you an oasis near your state.

We ALL take our chances Brother. It's called LIFE.
  #53  
Old 12-03-2013, 08:15 PM
The Earl o Sammich The Earl o Sammich is offline
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Originally Posted by Hardballing View Post
Hmmmmmm.

So that means anyone living next to train tracks because they routinely move hazardous cargo via rail. Or next to an airport, because planes can and do crash. Or near refineries, or cargo terminals (either rail, or shipping). Or near military bases where WMD's may be stored or prepped. Or near the New Madrid fault that spans IIRC from AR to New England.

So basically anyone not living in Phoenix? Hope the water table never has an issue there or you'll join the list too I'm thinking. And I've visited Phoenix, if you think some of your neighborhoods will be any different in an emergency...uh...how about I sell you an oasis near your state.

We ALL take our chances Brother. It's called LIFE.
Ya, but those people living in the Mississippi flood plains, that want my donations, my taxes to bail their stupid arses out every three to five years, I call it insanity. Have their life, or death if it comes to it, be on their own hands.

Back to what did I learn from Katrina, Don't let the NG or LEO know you're there and hide your guns.
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  #54  
Old 12-06-2013, 08:07 PM
South South is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Earl o Sammich View Post
Ya, but those people living in the Mississippi flood plains, that want my donations, my taxes to bail their stupid arses out every three to five years, I call it insanity.
Most people here are used to it, a hurricane strikes here direct or indirect about every 2 years.
We may get another major storm in 50 years.
Most of us have insurance, and if you live in a flood zone you are required by the bank to have flood insurance.
If you felt obligated to donate to red cross for a cause you were fooled. They play on your heart strings from any catastrophe to get money. Red Cross did help after Katrina, and a lot of their help was in the form of a free handout for anyone wanting one.
  #55  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:08 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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While I sometimes have my beefs with Red Cross, I must admit that at the shelters in SA they were quite active with a lot of volunteers who left their jobs in other locations, even states, to come help with the shelters.

But, too often it's about the red tape, bureaucracy, and posturing for position when the Red Cross moves in. The worker bees are hard at it working with good hearts and often only getting room and board while away form their paying jobs. The problems rise up with the paid "professionals" in the organization.

Most folks that live in an area that has any particular natural, destructive (and constructive in purely natural terms) events that occur on a relatively recurring basis usually adapt and take such things in stride. The only real big events are when it's something way over and above the norm. For those things there is no holding it back.

One thing to remember about Katrina is that it wasn't the actual storm itself the caused so much trouble, but the surge resulting from it that overpowered the levees and flooded the place. I do think living below sea level in a place that isn't an undersea dome is a recipe for eventual disaster though. Rebuilding there is even worse.

If everyone lived where there wasn't any or an extreme minimum chance of a natural or man made disaster no one would be living anywhere. Plus unlike the wealthy elite of the forums not everyone has the means to just pack up and move. They certainly can't up and move to the perfectly safe and secure neighborhoods of those who say they should move. Not to mention they probably wouldn't be welcome there. Personally, I wish the trash that floated up out of NO and Beaumont and stayed around San Antonio would have never come near the city limits.

Some people feel that some places are worth living in that living with the occasional risk is better than living somewhere else all safe and secure. Just like some people would rather live free and deal with the issues that come from that than living in a nice "safe" place like NYC where the government will do all it can get away with to protect you from yourself.
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:34 PM
The Tourist The Tourist is offline
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I've read this thread a few times and I'm beginning to come away from it with a slightly differing perspective. It's not the storm that bothers me, but the average citizens' reaction.

We're gun guys, we rely on ourselves. Nationally, I'm seeing it less and less often.

Even before this particular event, it always amazed me about the criticism our leaders got over wind, rain and snow--like they could control those things. What is starting to disgust me is how wussy people have become. Of course your roof blew off, of course the stores were picked clean, or course first responders needed time to find boats, helicopters and ambulances. Of course the central government was clueless, haven't these citizens had contact with our postal service or IRS?

Several years ago my home was hit by lightning. I didn't call Governor Jim Doyle (for all the good that joker could have done), but I did have the common sense to buy my own home insurance, get my roof fixed and appliances replaced. No magical elves were going to show up with new joists, jack-rafters and shingles.

Comedian Sam Kinison once commented on the plight of Ethiopians by yelling, "Move to where the food is!" This storm caused a tremendous loss, but then, when does a natural disaster mean you don't have to take some personal responsibility for your own plight?
  #57  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:43 PM
South South is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Iron Wolf View Post
One thing to remember about Katrina is that it wasn't the actual storm itself the caused so much trouble, but the surge resulting from it that overpowered the levees and flooded the place. I do think living below sea level in a place that isn't an undersea dome is a recipe for eventual disaster though. Rebuilding there is even worse.
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans
A recent study by Tulane and Xavier University notes that 51% of New Orleans is at or above sea level, with the more densely populated areas generally on higher ground. The average elevation of the city is currently between one and two feet (0.5 m) below sea level, with some portions of the city as high as 20 feet (6 m) at the base of the river levee in Uptown and others as low as 7 feet (2 m) below sea level in the farthest reaches of Eastern New Orleans.[52]

Why is it up to anyone were a resident chooses to rebuild? Rebuilding usually constitutes gutting drywall and insulation up to 4 ft, getting new carpet, and a remodeled kitchen. Real wood furniture can be salvaged if you like it, particle board never survives. Residents in flood zones pay a huge premium for flood insurance. It's not like a flood comes and they win a lottery either, they just get some of the money back they have put into the system.
If by "rebuilding is even worse" you really mean that rebuilding the poor areas like section 8 homes and the projects is even worse then we are in agreement. a lot of homes would be boarded up and knocked down anyway. We lost a lot of our poor to other cities too. If you're suggesting that public services that are supposed to work FOR taxpayers shouldn't have been rebuilt then I kindly disagree.

New Orleans has a lot to offer the country. The Louisiana purchase is why America is as large as it is. We have a great seafood industry. We are a port city. A lot of oil and gas comes through here and is processed here too. It is a great place for tourism and has culture like no other city in America. The food alone is unique and worth visiting here.

That said I still want to escape this place!
  #58  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:53 PM
South South is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
I've read this thread a few times and I'm beginning to come away from it with a slightly differing perspective. It's not the storm that bothers me, but the average citizens' reaction.

We're gun guys, we rely on ourselves. Nationally, I'm seeing it less and less often.

Even before this particular event, it always amazed me about the criticism our leaders got over wind, rain and snow--like they could control those things. What is starting to disgust me is how wussy people have become. Of course your roof blew off, of course the stores were picked clean, or course first responders needed time to find boats, helicopters and ambulances. Of course the central government was clueless, haven't these citizens had contact with our postal service or IRS?

Several years ago my home was hit by lightning. I didn't call Governor Jim Doyle (for all the good that joker could have done), but I did have the common sense to buy my own home insurance, get my roof fixed and appliances replaced. No magical elves were going to show up with new joists, jack-rafters and shingles.

Comedian Sam Kinison once commented on the plight of Ethiopians by yelling, "Move to where the food is!" This storm caused a tremendous loss, but then, when does a natural disaster mean you don't have to take some personal responsibility for your own plight?
I couldn't agree more. A lot of weak people were on the news begging for help and the news sensationalizes it because it sells advertising. I was a boy helping my stepdad gut the house we lived in. My large family helped restore that house. Nowadays it is more typical for people to toss there hands up and demand the government bribe them to come back with road home grant money, give them money to buy new groceries, and get public assistance for not working WHILE choosing not to come back to work. Our country has grown weak because of the new perception on how things should be.
George Bush sent in the military or national guard (guys in full camo with guns) and distributed ice, clean water, and MREs. It probably should have happened a little sooner than it did but I am very grateful for that government response. I don't think the government should have done much more.
  #59  
Old 01-01-2014, 07:24 PM
markshere2 markshere2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans
A recent study by Tulane and Xavier University notes that 51% of New Orleans is at or above sea level, with the more densely populated areas generally on higher ground. The average elevation of the city is currently between one and two feet (0.5 m) below sea level, with some portions of the city as high as 20 feet (6 m) at the base of the river levee in Uptown and others as low as 7 feet (2 m) below sea level in the farthest reaches of Eastern New Orleans.[52]

Why is it up to anyone were a resident chooses to rebuild? Rebuilding usually constitutes gutting drywall and insulation up to 4 ft, getting new carpet, and a remodeled kitchen. Real wood furniture can be salvaged if you like it, particle board never survives. Residents in flood zones pay a huge premium for flood insurance. It's not like a flood comes and they win a lottery either, they just get some of the money back they have put into the system.
If by "rebuilding is even worse" you really mean that rebuilding the poor areas like section 8 homes and the projects is even worse then we are in agreement. a lot of homes would be boarded up and knocked down anyway. We lost a lot of our poor to other cities too. If you're suggesting that public services that are supposed to work FOR taxpayers shouldn't have been rebuilt then I kindly disagree.

New Orleans has a lot to offer the country. The Louisiana purchase is why America is as large as it is. We have a great seafood industry. We are a port city. A lot of oil and gas comes through here and is processed here too. It is a great place for tourism and has culture like no other city in America. The food alone is unique and worth visiting here.

That said I still want to escape this place!
All that is nice, but living below sea level in a place where hurricanes come through EVERY YEAR is stupid.

If you want to live in a dangerous pace, that's your choice. But why should the rest of the country be obligated to pay to rebuild that cesspool over and over again?

If we filled in the area until it was 5' over sea level, then I would have no problem with .FEDGOV providing a one-time disaster relief. But rebuilding over and over? Stupid stupid stupid.

Katrina was the best chance to create a national landfill I ever heard of.

Yes, I've been to Nawlins, a couple of times.
  #60  
Old 01-01-2014, 08:24 PM
flyinrock flyinrock is offline
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Has anyone else noticed the signs put up by National Forest Service and other agencies, "Please do not feed the wild life. It causes them unable to forage naturally for themselves".
Geeez how does that sound like our welfare system?
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  #61  
Old 01-02-2014, 10:31 AM
South South is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markshere2 View Post
If you want to live in a dangerous pace, that's your choice. But why should the rest of the country be obligated to pay to rebuild that cesspool over and over again?

If we filled in the area until it was 5' over sea level, then I would have no problem with .FEDGOV providing a one-time disaster relief. But rebuilding over and over? Stupid stupid stupid.
From Wikipedia: It has been argued that since the US Army Corps of Engineers has had oversight over the levee system since the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and most of the destruction in the city occurred due to the levee failure, the federal government should be responsible for rebuilding.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov...ina-flooding19
Furthermore: In a ruling that could leave the government open to billions of dollars in claims from Hurricane Katrina victims, a federal judge said late Wednesday that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had displayed "gross negligence" in failing to maintain a navigation channel -- resulting in levee breaches that flooded large swaths of greater New Orleans.
"The judge agreed with us that Katrina was not a natural disaster," O'Donnell said. "Katrina was a man-made disaster caused by the Army Corps of Engineers."

http://levees.org/myth-busters-by-levees-org/ Army Corp of Engineers admitted to fault. "Responsibility lies with the Corps, mainly for its tragic decision to save $100 million by short-sheeting steel pilings in the canal walls."

Louisiana brings in a lot of oil money to the federal coffers but doesn't get to keep any of it to rebuild the coastline. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...e-single-penn/

The only thing "stupid, stupid, stupid" I see is trusting the government to do the right thing or keep us safe.
  #62  
Old 01-09-2014, 10:14 PM
AMVAN AMVAN is offline
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I would think the question is more: what have we learned about what to expect when our societal construct is no longer in place? The answer is chaos. The government will go into a martial law state, and will be divided. Citizens will no longer be served by the government but directed. Groups of people will form sub-groups for survival...where their's is possibly dependent on yours ending. Other people still will go devolve into what they likely were to begin with: thieves, looters, murderers, rapists, and so forth. They know that the social order is gone and will take advantage. Others will try and follow what rules remain, both given and innate.

The bottom line is this: to prepare for a state of no-government or societal breakdown one must make sure to start with the very basic of needs...food (MRE's and canned goods), wate (good ol' H2O), shelter (bug-in first), safety (by way of medical kits, breathing apparatus's, and weapons--divided amongst both melee (blunt and bladed) as well as projectile (firing bullets, arrows, and bolts).

Last edited by AMVAN; 01-10-2014 at 12:34 AM.
  #63  
Old 01-11-2014, 04:07 AM
Ordnance Ordnance is offline
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What to do?

If I found myself living in a city that was below sea-level, and 5 days beforehand the NWS tells everyone that it may hit New Orleans, I would start packing, board up my house, etc. Then I would take everything of value and necessity that I could with me (including ALL firearms), and get the hell out 3 days in advance.

As a nation, we saw on TV what unfolded in the aftermath of the storm with the "people" who stayed. Much of the ugliness that occurred had nothing to do with the storm, or people not being "prepared." We also learned that Kanye West is a complete ass.
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  #64  
Old 01-11-2014, 10:56 AM
AMVAN AMVAN is offline
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Don't forget that "Bush hates black people."
  #65  
Old 03-19-2014, 09:54 PM
Freek12 Freek12 is offline
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I didn't experience or see the effects of Katrina, but I was "privy" to experience the recent typhoon (Haiyan) in the Philippines. Pretty devastating stuff! What's even more devastating is the government's focus on making such an event a reason to line their own pockets (or fill their own purses, if you prefer) all the more than they are doing already. Corruption rules in this part of the world - big time!
  #66  
Old 03-23-2014, 12:10 AM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Originally Posted by Freek12 View Post
I didn't experience or see the effects of Katrina, but I was "privy" to experience the recent typhoon (Haiyan) in the Philippines. Pretty devastating stuff! What's even more devastating is the government's focus on making such an event a reason to line their own pockets (or fill their own purses, if you prefer) all the more than they are doing already. Corruption rules in this part of the world - big time!
It hasn't changed then from the 60's and 70's.

I can remember the Filipino's that worked in the Base Bakery being "On Strike" until a typhoon hit, so then they brought back the pieces of the equipment they'd stolen to keep the plant from operating so the Americans could send bread to the affected areas.

The USAF was air dropping bread and supplies from C-47's and delivering it in DUKW's.
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  #67  
Old 03-30-2014, 10:36 PM
Bravo16 Bravo16 is offline
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I deployed to Katrina, only to return to Texas to have my personal property torn up by Rita. The things I recall in priority order are 1) Heat, 2) Filth, 3) Fuel, and 4) Tires.

Heat- We had a hard time humping through the storm aftermath because of the heat, even at night, wearing body armor and protective clothing. Even when we were off, it was hard to sleep because of the heat and mosquitos the size of Jap Zeros. Next time I will bring a screen tent and lots of Ambien.

Filth- It was hard to get clean. The water was contaminated. When we did get fresh water your got hydrated, got your body clean, then got your dirty clothes clean. Next time I will get a tetanus and Hepatitis A booster, as well as a broad spectrum antibiotic, and lots of soap and sanitizer. Keep your skin clean and don't wade through anything you do not have to
Fuel- Fuel pods were sketchy, so I will definitely take enough extra fuel to fill up every vehicle we take at least once.

Tires- Roofing nails covered all the streets on both cases Everybody got flats. Best case scenario is that if your unit is big enough, take a guy with a tire truck (and extra gas) with you Beware that unless this guy is a Badge, you will have to detail someone to protect him and your gear while your team in out humping

Lesser concerns -
Underclothes. Under Armour sells their briefs for $20.00 and they are worth every penny. Try to stay with a dri-fit materials for briefs, Tee shirts, and especially socks. If you wash them in the sink and drip dry them, they ought to be dry by morning.Take a couple or three pair of Rip Stop BDUs with two changes of underclothes

Nutrition- If you deploy with an MRE food plan, get some magnesium citrate or some other laxative because after 3 days of MREs, your team will be locked up. Consider Mountain House or one of ration packs you just add hot water to. Make sure you have boocoo batteries, but not so much ammo my weapon loadout was my M-4 with 8 thirty round mags, and my 1911 with seven mags.. I carried a tomahawk rather than a baton or Taser. We did not have but maybe 4 sustained gunfights in N.O. and they ran off after shoting.

The most important thing is to prepare your mind for a deployment that is hot , humid, and low on everything you need. I will be like hell, but it will end. We only deployed around 3 weeks each time.
  #68  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:40 AM
CPTKILLER CPTKILLER is offline
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  #69  
Old 03-31-2014, 04:04 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo16 View Post
I deployed to Katrina, only to return to Texas to have my personal property torn up by Rita. The things I recall in priority order are 1) Heat, 2) Filth, 3) Fuel, and 4) Tires.

Heat- We had a hard time humping through the storm aftermath because of the heat, even at night, wearing body armor and protective clothing. Even when we were off, it was hard to sleep because of the heat and mosquitos the size of Jap Zeros. Next time I will bring a screen tent and lots of Ambien.

Filth- It was hard to get clean. The water was contaminated. When we did get fresh water your got hydrated, got your body clean, then got your dirty clothes clean. Next time I will get a tetanus and Hepatitis A booster, as well as a broad spectrum antibiotic, and lots of soap and sanitizer. Keep your skin clean and don't wade through anything you do not have to
Fuel- Fuel pods were sketchy, so I will definitely take enough extra fuel to fill up every vehicle we take at least once.

Tires- Roofing nails covered all the streets on both cases Everybody got flats. Best case scenario is that if your unit is big enough, take a guy with a tire truck (and extra gas) with you Beware that unless this guy is a Badge, you will have to detail someone to protect him and your gear while your team in out humping

Lesser concerns -
Underclothes. Under Armour sells their briefs for $20.00 and they are worth every penny. Try to stay with a dri-fit materials for briefs, Tee shirts, and especially socks. If you wash them in the sink and drip dry them, they ought to be dry by morning.Take a couple or three pair of Rip Stop BDUs with two changes of underclothes

Nutrition- If you deploy with an MRE food plan, get some magnesium citrate or some other laxative because after 3 days of MREs, your team will be locked up. Consider Mountain House or one of ration packs you just add hot water to. Make sure you have boocoo batteries, but not so much ammo my weapon loadout was my M-4 with 8 thirty round mags, and my 1911 with seven mags.. I carried a tomahawk rather than a baton or Taser. We did not have but maybe 4 sustained gunfights in N.O. and they ran off after shoting.

The most important thing is to prepare your mind for a deployment that is hot , humid, and low on everything you need. I will be like hell, but it will end. We only deployed around 3 weeks each time.

Heat - Make sure you unit has cot's with issued wood poles and misquito nets for each person if you must be outdoors. Find a government building that might have a generator and divert fuel for night time ops to have heat/ac for sleeping and power to charge set things like hand helds, phones, flashlights, etc.. Just take a small area, secure it with guards and enjoy. You should not have your gear outside where it might get stolen at night, so push for a simple building (school, court house, admin building, city hall) use it as a base camp and the security you provide and perks you get will work out nice.

Filth - Baby wipes, baby powder, and set locations. There is something to be said about being in uniform, in a disaster area, away from home, helpping others. You have to net work. We took FEMA supplies to some people vs waiting at a county seat for people to try and get their when they had little to no fuel. We went to larger area's and met with the local Police, FD, and town counsel members to set up helpping the people. Now FEMA said we could not move supplies, but we did. We teamed with the local FD for the most and every night we took clean cold showers using a water reserve and generator pump. We did laundry once a week using all sorts of soaps.

Fuel was an issue. We had a mix of gas and diesel. We brought lots of diesel, more than we knew we would need. We traded it for gas and helpped semi-trucks drop off loads and keep items cold. We had to leave the area to get gas and would bring back gas in cans. We tried to keep a small stash of gas on hand. Things like fork lifts and golf carts were used for some tasks. We never tried to punch gas tanks or open gas station fill holes. We did use our own credit cards to buy gas and would use gas runs as food and shower runs as we left the area.

Tires we ran out of, but we were able to limp vehicles to our base and still use the radio/generator/altenator/ac. We canablized vehicles, and made things work. Tire plugs used as needed, some with 7 to 8 plugs. In the end we had the situation where we could not leave untill vehicles with all 4 tires flat were fixed.

I dont know the last time I ate MRE's was. I would bring protine bars and snack food, and find local food most times. One mission we did was a guy was worried about his business and what it looked like. He also had some cash he wanted to pick up. We decided to help the guy and few friends as our vehicles had been to that area and we knew it was a easy thing over all. The guy told us we could have all the meat in the freezers of the business, this was a major food chain and the fact was no one was going to be in the area for over a week or more, there was no power and all would spoil. We had a huge cook out, and invited locals, who later brought us more food in the days that followed.


I have found that in disaster area's and war zone's, I have always made my quality of life better. Their is a risk, but the reward is nice. Just know what your doing and be in control. I always deploy with gifts to give others, and plan to return with only a 3 day back pack that has personal items I cant replace easy.
  #70  
Old 03-31-2014, 04:56 PM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Lessons learned:

1. Understand the hazards of the area you live in. Be prepared to evacuate if needed. Pay attention to warnings.
2. Have a plan and resources in place; remain flexible.
3. Don't rely on any government entity to take care of you, they will screw it up.
4. Soldiers/LEOs/ FEMA etc will NOT respect your constitutional rights in any way.
Pretty much sums it up, especially number 4.
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  #71  
Old 03-31-2014, 05:03 PM
DivePanama DivePanama is offline
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Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
.......

Even in Texas, we took in guns if you had them out on the street. Dont go out in public armed with a long gun.

.....
Isn't open carry of a long gun legal in Texas?

If it is, then by what statute do LEO's have the authority to confiscate citizens long gun if they are not using them illegally?
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  #72  
Old 03-31-2014, 07:44 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Originally Posted by DivePanama View Post
Isn't open carry of a long gun legal in Texas?

If it is, then by what statute do LEO's have the authority to confiscate citizens long gun if they are not using them illegally?
Like most posts this might be hard to explain to you.

First, what makes you think people can legaly open carry a long gun in public durring a disaster, when orders to evacuate are given and laws are changed via a decleration?

I will lay it out. If you dont get it, look it up on your own, or ignore it.

Texas has an Emergency Management Plan, as do all states I would hope. The Governer and Office of the Attorney General OAG have put presidence on things when Natrual Disasters, Martial Law, etc... come into play. But even a local Judge or Mayor may make a Disaster Decleration for their area. Each situation can be custom taylored, but things like cerfews and off limit areas come to play. It is not just another day. When a Governer states people are to evacuate, he cant force them to leave, but its notice that you are on your own and the state wont send you help.

Major disaster stage one puts First Responders on the ground. In Texas we focus on two things, protection of people and property. Now if told to evacuate, then property is the main issue.

You can not legaly just enter and area assigned as a disaster area if told to evac. You must wait till First Responders are done. You would be trespassing on any land not your own in that area, any land, even what you might have called public land the day prior. So only First Responders have legal access, untill that stage is done. The next stage is letting property owners back to their own property, there can still be cerfews and other things imposed and upheld by courts of law. Then in the end the general public can come in.

Anyone out on the streets can be subject to trespassing/looting laws. Firearms are fine on your own property, but off your property and a decleration is issued, you will have them taken. You can have them taken as safe property, have them taken as a trespasser in possession of a firearm, or shot as a looter based on how you are acting.

Texas is not LA N.O., most Texans support the way our state deals with things. Beumont PD took in a fair number of guns as did a few other places. We even have laws that only cover disasters/martial law. Felony crimes, and property crimes can be met with dealy force, and cerfews are cause to arrest.

LA N.O. might have been a war zone, Texas is more a hunting zone. Nothing made me shake my head then asking a criminal what they were thinking and they say "that aint how it is in New Orleans".
  #73  
Old 03-31-2014, 08:29 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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So CavCop, let me get this straight.

The State of Texas can order you from your land or property and if you take your legally owned firearms with you, they can confiscate them?

And if you refuse to allow them to confiscate them, you can be arrested or shot?


Seems a bit odd given the following narrative about how things get done in Texas.


Here’s some stories you won’t hear about the Tri-county fire in Montgomery, Grimes, and Waller County the weeks following Labor Day, 2011. Although Kenna promises to write a book.

My neighbor across the road has a sister named Kenna. Labor Day, when she saw the huge column of smoke over our homes, she left a birthday party at my neighbor’s house to meet with her friend Tara at the Baseball complex in Magnolia. She called the owner of the complex and got permission to use the warehouse there as a staging area for donations for the fire fighting effort.

They put a notice out on facebook that they were going to be taking donations on their facebook pages. That night as they were setting up tables and organizing, News 2 Houston came by and saw the activity, investigated and left with the phone numbers and a list of suggested donations. The facebook notice propagated faster than the fire. By dawn they had 20 volunteers, bins, forklifts, and donations were pouring in. I stopped by with my pitiful little bags of nasal wash and eye wash, and was amazed.

There must have been 20 trucks in the lot, offloading cases of water, pallets of Gatorade , and people lined up out the door with sacks of beef jerky, baby wipes, underwear, socks, and you name it. School buses and trailers from many counties around were there offloading supplies, students forming living chains to pass stuff into the bins for transport to the command center and staging areas. If the firefighters had requested it, it was there. What do you give the guy out there fighting the fire that might engulf your home? Anything he or she wants. Including chewing tobacco and cigarettes.

Kenna moved on to the Unified Command Post at Magnolia West High school. She looked at what the fire fighters needed, and she made calls and set it up.

Mattress Mac donated 150 beds. Two class rooms turned into barracks kept quiet and dark for rest.

The CEO of HEB donated 2 semi trailers full of supplies, and sent a mobile commercial kitchen at no charge to feed all the workers, but especially our firefighters, 3 hot meals a
day.

An impromptu commissary was set up, anything the firefighters had requested available at no charge. As exhausted firefighters (most of them from local VFDs with no training or experience battling wildfires) and workers came into the school after long hours of hard labor, dehydrated, hungry, covered with soot and ash, they got what they needed. They were directed through the commissary, where they got soap, eye wash and nasal spray,
candy, clean socks and underwear, and then were sent off to the school locker rooms for a shower. HEB then fed them a hot meal and they got 8 hours sleep in a barracks, then another hot meal, another pass through the commissary for supplies to carry with them out to lines, including gloves, safety glasses, dust masks and snacks, and back they went.

One of the imported crew from California came into Unified Command and asked where the FEMA Powerbars and water were. He was escorted to the commissary and started through the system. He was flabbergasted. He said FEMA never did it like this. Kenna replied, ”Well, this is the way we do it in Texas.”

Fire fighting equipment needed repair? The auto shop at the High School ran 24/7 with local mechanics volunteering, students, and the firefighters fixing the equipment. Down one side of the school, the water tankers lined up at the fire hydrants and filled with water. Down the other side there was a steady parade of gasoline tankers filling trucks, dozers, tankers, cans, chain saws, and vehicles.

Mind you, all of this was set up by 2 Moms, Kenna and Tara, with a staff of 20 simple volunteers, most of them women who had sons, daughters, husbands, and friends on the fire lines. Someone always knew someone who could get what they needed- beds, mechanics, food, space. Local people using local connections to mobilize local resources made this happen. No government aid. No Trained Expert.

At one point the fire was less than a mile from the school, and everyone but hose volunteers were evacuated. The fire was turned. The Red Cross came in, looked at what they were doing, and quietly went away to set up a fire victim relief center nearby. They said they
couldn’t do it any better.

Then FEMA came in and told those volunteers and Kenna that they had to leave, FEMA was here now. Kenna told them she worked for the firefighters, not them. They were obnoxious, bossy, got in the way, and criticized everything. The volunteers refused to back down and
kept doing their job, and doing it well. Next FEMA said the HEB supplies and kitchen had to go, that was blatant commercialism. Kenna said they stayed. They stayed. FEMA threw a wall eyed fit about chewing tobacco and cigarettes being available in the commissary area.
Kenna told them the firefighters had requested it, and it was staying. It stayed. FEMA got very nasty and kept asking what organization these volunteers belonged to- and all the volunteers told them “Our community”.

FEMA didn’t like that and demanded they make up a name for themselves. One mother remarked “They got me at my boiling point!” and suddenly the group was “212 Degrees”. FEMA’s contribution? They came in the next day with red shirts embroidered with “212 Degrees”, insisting the volunteers had to be identified, never realizing it was a slap in their face. Your tax dollars at work - labeling volunteers with useless shirts and getting in the way.

The upshot? A fire that the experts from California (for whom we are so grateful there are no words) said would take 2-3 weeks to get under control was 100% contained in 8 days. There was so much equipment and supplies donated, 3 container trucks are loaded with the excess to go and set up a similar relief center for the fire fighters in Bastrop.

The local relief agencies have asked people to stop bringing in donations of clothing, food, household items, and pretty much everything else because they only have 60 displaced households to care for, and there is enough to supply hundreds. Again, excess is going to be shipped to Bastrop, where there are 1500 displaced households. Wish we could send Kenna, too, but she has to go back to her regular job.

And that’s the way we do it in Texas!!!
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  #74  
Old 03-31-2014, 08:38 PM
flyinrock flyinrock is offline
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  #75  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:05 PM
CavCop CavCop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonHyphenAmerican View Post
So CavCop, let me get this straight.

The State of Texas can order you from your land or property and if you take your legally owned firearms with you, they can confiscate them?

And if you refuse to allow them to confiscate them, you can be arrested or shot?
No, you dont have it straight.

Where do you get that if you take your guns with you, they will be taken?

What?
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