Alternative housing - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-07-2020, 03:22 PM
johnireland johnireland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 350
Alternative housing

Ideally in a crisis it would be nice to shelter in place at home...3rd floor of a 3 story condo building. But if society really starts to go to pieces, I've been thinking about the alternatives of where to take emergency shelter that is independent of any government aid. I have access to some land in the Santa Monica mountains north of Malibu and south of Oxnard. Not exactly wilderness but with a running creek, a natural well, a half million gallons of stored water for fire fighting, and leveled pads high above the highway that would not be seen from below. The access is defendable if that became necessary. Though my wife and I have the tent and stuff for immediate shelter, we are now negotiating two have two cargo containers put in a specific location. One would be for storing in a well sheltered way our supplies. The second would be a crude but effective form of housing, large enough for two and immediate supplies. The area also has enough wild animals to provide food that can be hunted and land for raising crops if that became needed in a prolonged situation. The containers would be on solid concrete pads, and elevated above that with wooden pallets. We would have both solar and diesel powered generators, and for the moment we are expecting to be without electricity from the grid. We will be partnering with a second couple who will have their own containers and space, but close enough for mutual aid. A third couple now occupy the land and have their own housing. Any added suggestions are welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-12-2020, 12:38 PM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 137
I understand this but I always ask how are you getting to your location in a crisis?

How many of the 3 couples will make it?

Do you have access to each others stores?

How protected are your stores with all the fires in your AO?

Learn how to build a weir for your running creek.

I would add some traps and learn how to build a productive set, its an art.

First aid training and kits?

Access is defendable, I would study strategies and work up a plan.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-12-2020, 02:16 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 21,933
As for growing crops.

If you want to be able to really get anything worth eating inside of two or three years, then you better start now. Additionally you better consider how to protect your crops from predators. Farming is not as easy as most people think.

These people that buy these survival seed kits. They think that they can just throw a bunch of seeds on the ground. And come back six weeks later to a bountiful harvest. They will not last long. Game will dry up pretty quick. Once they start to feel hunting pressure.

Also you should know that those Corten steel shipping containers are pretty strong. But once you cut into them for say a window or something they loose a lot of strength.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 04-12-2020, 03:29 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Ideally in a crisis it would be nice to shelter in place at home...3rd floor of a 3 story condo building. But if society really starts to go to pieces, I've been thinking about the alternatives of where to take emergency shelter that is independent of any government aid. I have access to some land in the Santa Monica mountains north of Malibu and south of Oxnard. Not exactly wilderness but with a running creek, a natural well, a half million gallons of stored water for fire fighting, and leveled pads high above the highway that would not be seen from below. The access is defendable if that became necessary. Though my wife and I have the tent and stuff for immediate shelter, we are now negotiating two have two cargo containers put in a specific location. One would be for storing in a well sheltered way our supplies. The second would be a crude but effective form of housing, large enough for two and immediate supplies. The area also has enough wild animals to provide food that can be hunted and land for raising crops if that became needed in a prolonged situation. The containers would be on solid concrete pads, and elevated above that with wooden pallets. We would have both solar and diesel powered generators, and for the moment we are expecting to be without electricity from the grid. We will be partnering with a second couple who will have their own containers and space, but close enough for mutual aid. A third couple now occupy the land and have their own housing. Any added suggestions are welcome.
So......how bad would it have to be for you to leave your home??? What exactly would have to happen for "society to really go to pieces"? Think about what those conditions are. Exactly what would have to happen to get you to abandon your home.....leaving it open to invasion, theft, arson, squatters.....?? Think about what it would take.......cause I don't think you have.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-12-2020, 03:30 PM
~JM~ ~JM~ is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 28
I've heard the refrigerated containers are better suited due to being well insulated.

A small RV/Travel Trailer/Camper would be helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-12-2020, 04:31 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Del Rio, Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 8,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
If you want to be able to really get anything worth eating inside of two or three years, then you better start now. Additionally you better consider how to protect your crops from predators. Farming is not as easy as most people think.

These people that buy these survival seed kits. They think that they can just throw a bunch of seeds on the ground. And come back six weeks later to a bountiful harvest. They will not last long. Game will dry up pretty quick. Once they start to feel hunting pressure.

Also you should know that those Corten steel shipping containers are pretty strong. But once you cut into them for say a window or something they loose a lot of strength.
I'll beat the others to it. Bloomberg says it's easy. Just dig a hole in the ground and drop in a seed. Not much grey matter required. Of course anyone who has ever farmed or raised a garden knows better.

What I got from the OP is that he is thinking about somewhere for the next shelter in place situation. That it might be better to do so out of town at a second place. Better sheltering in the country than on the third floor of a condo in LA I'm sure. However, much of what others have said is true be it a shelter in place thing for awhile or bug out.

Having someone else already there to keep an eye on things is good if they can and will protect the other two locations. Though that might be tough for just a couple. They might be hard pressed to keep themselves and their supplies safe. Illegals and drug runners may just decide you created a great place to them as a stop. Maybe even to the point of taking out your friends.

Growing a garden means you have to be there, work it, and it will be at least a few months before you get anything from it. If you want to can enough for later, then you have to grow more and that requires more. For conventional gardening the old adage was plant three times what you wanted to harvest. One third for the wildlife, one third for the bugs, and one third for you.

Best bet. Find a way to put a simple, comfortable place on your property and if you can change jobs, make enough off the sale of the condo to live frugally in the country, or get a different source of income, even if reduced, but adequate, and move full time to your property. Get good on a regular basis with the neighbors and enjoy. Anything comes up in the future you are all set to stay in place. In the meantime, you enjoy simpler living and your surroundings.
__________________
"I wish I was stupid enough to be optimistic." Unknown

R.I.P. Miss Andi. It was a fine, long run old pup and I miss ya. AIW
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-12-2020, 04:47 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 11,560
A second home that's usable -- and actually used -- can be a very good thing. Even without considering possible utility in some kind of disaster.

But if it's not a real second home, a lot of questions and doubts arise as to both the likelihood and the practicality of it doing anything for you. These concerns are well covered in preceding posts...+1911.

Of course, if unlimited financial resources, sure, go for it... nothing to lose.

But at the same time, if someone has both the financial resources and a doomsday preparation mentality (I'm saying the latter in strictly neutral manner... nothing negative or anything else is implied), I'd look at more robust solutions.

One example of such: https://www.terravivos.com/secure/vivosxpoint.htm
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member

"Freedom is only a temporary thing unless it is backed by the blunt capability and willingness to fight back against evil with sufficient arms." -- Myself
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-12-2020, 09:17 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 21,933
In other words, bug out ahead of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
But at the same time, if someone has both the financial resources and a doomsday preparation mentality (I'm saying the latter in strictly neutral manner... nothing negative or anything else is implied), I'd look at more robust solutions.

One example of such: https://www.terravivos.com/secure/vivosxpoint.htm
Not putting any words in your mouth chrysanthemum. (Actually could spell it without having to look it up this time.) But just bugging out at the last minute to what you think will be your salvation from the end of the world. This is a really bad plan for any number of reasons.

If you are connected to a specific area for any reason, And most people are. I would try to think of how I could provide myself with the best set of circumstances there. The idea of being able to bug out at the last minute during a Ragnarok event. This is going to get a lot of people killed plain and simple.

If you are concerned enough about it and have the resources to do so. Bug out while you still can. Otherwise deal with it. None of us are going to get out of this alive. Think about what is important to you and go after that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-12-2020, 09:30 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 11,560
^^^

Perhaps (?) fortunately, my financial resources confine me to an ordinary life. Comfortable, but ordinary. And I feel fortunate to have made it through a working career.

If most of the world disappears, that will be a cue that it's likely time to move along to whatever might lay beyond.

I do what I can to prepare for ordinary disasters/trials -- things of a general nature that have occurred before -- but not end-of-world-as-we-know-it cataclysmic events.

I'm not a customer for those bunkers. But I still found the concept interesting. People, and their diversity in what they choose to do, are often fascinating subjects.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member

"Freedom is only a temporary thing unless it is backed by the blunt capability and willingness to fight back against evil with sufficient arms." -- Myself

Last edited by chrysanthemum; 04-12-2020 at 09:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-12-2020, 09:44 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 21,933
Me two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
^^^

Perhaps (?) fortunately, my financial resources confine me to an ordinary life. Comfortable, but ordinary.

If most of the world disappears, that will be a cue that it's likely time to move along to whatever might lay beyond.

I do what I can to prepare for ordinary disasters/trials -- things of a general nature that have occurred before -- but not end-of-world-as-we-know-it cataclysmic events.
I just happened to be fortunate enough to have a job that allowed me to live more or less wherever I wanted to. I generally only went to work once or twice a year. And more often than not I flew to work.

I still remember when I first bought my place here in VA. When I knew that it was getting close to time to go back to work. Before I had electricity and phone service. I had to go up to the top of the mountain to get cell phone reception. I used to get a lot of guff from my fellow officers about living in a cabin in the woods with no electricity. Like I was some kind of Teddy Kaczynski type of character.

Last edited by USMM guy; 04-12-2020 at 09:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-13-2020, 01:05 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
So......how bad would it have to be for you to leave your home??? What exactly would have to happen for "society to really go to pieces"? Think about what those conditions are. Exactly what would have to happen to get you to abandon your home.....leaving it open to invasion, theft, arson, squatters.....?? Think about what it would take.......cause I don't think you have.
The condo building we are in would have to become impractical to defend and continue living in. Other owners abandoning their property so we no longer had mutual aid, loss of power, water, and our security doors and gates (which are electrical), increase in neighborhood crime from deterioration of the police services. A combination of any or all of this would indicate time to leave the property. We would have already begun moving things to the new location before these events occurred. And one would have already prepared for loss of electronic banking by having a certain amount of cash and precious metals and other barter items.

As long as the city was functioning and the primary residence was secure it would probably not be necessary to leave our home...but if things did change as dramatically as described, planning for it well before hand is certainly necessary. It isn't something to do on the fly.

And obviously weapons and ammunition for protection.

neighborhood from lack of police,
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-13-2020, 08:29 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
The condo building we are in would have to become impractical to defend and continue living in. Other owners abandoning their property so we no longer had mutual aid, loss of power, water, and our security doors and gates (which are electrical), increase in neighborhood crime from deterioration of the police services. A combination of any or all of this would indicate time to leave the property. We would have already begun moving things to the new location before these events occurred. And one would have already prepared for loss of electronic banking by having a certain amount of cash and precious metals and other barter items.

As long as the city was functioning and the primary residence was secure it would probably not be necessary to leave our home...but if things did change as dramatically as described, planning for it well before hand is certainly necessary. It isn't something to do on the fly.

And obviously weapons and ammunition for protection.

neighborhood from lack of police,
And you see this as plausible in your lifetime?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-13-2020, 08:50 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,303
I see where the op is going with all this. Most can not move to the country or the burbs for various reasons. And the current dwelling is not adequate for defense positions. So the alternative is a bug out location.

Questions.
1 Is the 3rd couple year round residents?
2 How long does it take to get there?
3 Are you sure it will all still be there when you get there?

If this is your plan then I suggest you spend your vacation time up there living off grid to see how it goes. See what works and what does not.

I don't know if you ever had a camper but here is the advice given for new rv'ers. Camp in your driveway for the weekend. Make a list of everything you run back in the house to get. Soon you will see how under prepared you were.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-13-2020, 01:01 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Del Rio, Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 8,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
The condo building we are in would have to become impractical to defend and continue living in. Other owners abandoning their property so we no longer had mutual aid, loss of power, water, and our security doors and gates (which are electrical), increase in neighborhood crime from deterioration of the police services. A combination of any or all of this would indicate time to leave the property....
Actually, those things you mention as indicators to leave are in reality indicators you stayed too long. It's hard to do and not always practical in a daily life sense, but the time when people are realizing it's time to bug out is when it is too late. You should lead the charge, form the trend, not react to it.

It is difficult to read things and be the one who goes early. It means loss on your part. Leaving a job, abandoning your home and goods left behind, being the laughing stock of friends and neighbors, and the fear that if you are wrong in your read on things you will have a heck of a time recovering. So it's a tough call. But waiting until things are falling down around you. That will put you way behind the curve and severely reduce your survival chances.

Early you should have been "taking a little break at the country place" where you could be getting things up and running. Forming up with the neighbors and be sitting on your stuff already set. Things are so far south that you finally decide to leave the city means someone could already be sitting on your place and enjoying your stuff.

How well do you know the full time residents there. Those year round neighbors you count on just may decide that their families need to join them and you already have a place they can take over. They can always say we figured you didn't make it. Then tell you tough, it's not your place anymore, move on. How loyal are these people to you and who do they have that they would value more? Harsh questions and not pleasant to have to doubt or wonder about others, but it's all easy to talk about when things are mellow.

This is where actually training and practicing post alpacalips (kiss of yuck) scenarios together can build teamwork and reliance. The more you are a team, the more you become family. Sadly, most people will talk, but not get beyond that. I've ran into that way too much. All great to talk about getting together to talk about and plan. It never gets to the first get together.

If everything is falling apart and you decide it's time to leave then a whole lot of folks are thinking the same thing. Then it's gridlock and panic. And a big, open air market for bandits.
__________________
"I wish I was stupid enough to be optimistic." Unknown

R.I.P. Miss Andi. It was a fine, long run old pup and I miss ya. AIW
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-13-2020, 02:21 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,725
Make certain you have horded enough toilet paper!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-14-2020, 12:19 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
And you see this as plausible in your lifetime?
Anything is possible at anytime. Certainly a 7.5 to 8 earthquake in Los Angeles is a very real possibility. How much that would effect one neighborhood or another or the entire city depends on what the epicenter turned out to be. Economic crisis has hit many countries in the last 100 years, forcing them into one form of bankruptcy or another, and providing major hardship for their citizens. Germany, Russia, Argentina, Greece come to mind. Etc. etc.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-14-2020, 12:28 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
I see where the op is going with all this. Most can not move to the country or the burbs for various reasons. And the current dwelling is not adequate for defense positions. So the alternative is a bug out location.

Questions.
1 Is the 3rd couple year round residents?
2 How long does it take to get there?
3 Are you sure it will all still be there when you get there?

If this is your plan then I suggest you spend your vacation time up there living off grid to see how it goes. See what works and what does not.

I don't know if you ever had a camper but here is the advice given for new rv'ers. Camp in your driveway for the weekend. Make a list of everything you run back in the house to get. Soon you will see how under prepared you were.
How long to get there would depend on traffic. Usually 60 minutes. The third couple are year round, we all are family. At least the land will be there, but right now there is one significant large building that three couples could comfortable live in...each with their own space, with a large community kitchen, showers and bathroom facilities. There is also an empty horse barn for storage if stuff happened tomorrow. In the meantime we are looking at alternative types of other buildings to add onto the property. It is roughly 95 acres with good close access to major roads, yet tucked away from everything.

Bugging out will always depend on the specific situation. One might chose to get out of town for a few days or a week or so...or longer if necessary. Or to shelter in place as long as that/if that makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-14-2020, 12:30 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Iron Wolf View Post
Actually, those things you mention as indicators to leave are in reality indicators you stayed too long. It's hard to do and not always practical in a daily life sense, but the time when people are realizing it's time to bug out is when it is too late. You should lead the charge, form the trend, not react to it.

It is difficult to read things and be the one who goes early. It means loss on your part. Leaving a job, abandoning your home and goods left behind, being the laughing stock of friends and neighbors, and the fear that if you are wrong in your read on things you will have a heck of a time recovering. So it's a tough call. But waiting until things are falling down around you. That will put you way behind the curve and severely reduce your survival chances.

Early you should have been "taking a little break at the country place" where you could be getting things up and running. Forming up with the neighbors and be sitting on your stuff already set. Things are so far south that you finally decide to leave the city means someone could already be sitting on your place and enjoying your stuff.

How well do you know the full time residents there. Those year round neighbors you count on just may decide that their families need to join them and you already have a place they can take over. They can always say we figured you didn't make it. Then tell you tough, it's not your place anymore, move on. How loyal are these people to you and who do they have that they would value more? Harsh questions and not pleasant to have to doubt or wonder about others, but it's all easy to talk about when things are mellow.

This is where actually training and practicing post alpacalips (kiss of yuck) scenarios together can build teamwork and reliance. The more you are a team, the more you become family. Sadly, most people will talk, but not get beyond that. I've ran into that way too much. All great to talk about getting together to talk about and plan. It never gets to the first get together.

If everything is falling apart and you decide it's time to leave then a whole lot of folks are thinking the same thing. Then it's gridlock and panic. And a big, open air market for bandits.
All well said. Thanks. And we are doing the preparing now for if it becomes necessary. If everything hit the fan tomorrow I'd be behind the curve and have to improvise.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-14-2020, 10:18 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Anything is possible at anytime. Certainly a 7.5 to 8 earthquake in Los Angeles is a very real possibility. How much that would effect one neighborhood or another or the entire city depends on what the epicenter turned out to be. Economic crisis has hit many countries in the last 100 years, forcing them into one form of bankruptcy or another, and providing major hardship for their citizens. Germany, Russia, Argentina, Greece come to mind. Etc. etc.
You're not talking about bugging out. You're talking about moving to a 2nd home.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-24-2020, 06:36 PM
JeepJeff JeepJeff is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 31
30' - 40' Catamaran Sailboat. Equip it with a watermaker, solar and wind power generators and bunch of diesel fuel (for emergency power). Can always eat seafood if supplies get low.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-24-2020, 08:02 PM
AZ Husker's Avatar
AZ Husker AZ Husker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 20,077
I have a cabin in the woods two hours from Phoenix. My neighbors tell me that there are constant break-ins right now. On a simple long weekend the traffic can be so backed up it would take me at least four. I've seen all day in case of an accident. Now multiply that by a hundredfold with everyone in Metro Phoenix trying to get out of town. You'd run out of gas before you got 200 miles.
__________________
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved