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  #1  
Old 03-04-2020, 03:59 PM
GaryWWhite GaryWWhite is offline
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What's Going on with Wilson?

I received an email from WC indicating they are getting rid of the .38 Super, .40 and .460 Rowland. I own a WC Hunter in .460 Rowland. No comment was made about the 10mm Hunter. I was then drawn to the website and see that WC's store now looks like a Glock, Sigs and Beretta's outlet. WC must be hard up to sell guns having to market the noted firearms. I see in the advertisements that there is no waiting for your guns. I guess I'm kind of perturbed at WC's move away from semi-custom made guns and they're carrying the Euro trash. I hope if someday my REAL WILSON'S need service that the same service I have always had in the past will still be there. I received a noted when inquiring about why the .460 Rowland was discontinued and the remark came back "lack of interest"!
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Old 03-04-2020, 04:44 PM
None.Ya None.Ya is offline
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I think its called expanding your business and diversifying.

When us old diehard 1911 fans die off they still need customers.
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Old 03-04-2020, 05:25 PM
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The response of "lack of interest" is undoubtedly related to very small number of orders, it is an economic decision that all businesses have to make at some point. As far as semi-custom, you can still order and spec your own gun, and many of the in-stock 1911's are made with the same care as any order and are nothing more than the popular ordered options packages; nothing more, nothing less.

As far as Euro-trash, that may be your own opinion, but I don't consider the Beretta's to be trash by any stretch of the imagination. I would not necessarily, personally, consider Sigs or Glocks trash either, as I have owned both and they a good guns for their price point and purpose role.

As None.Ya said above, diversifying ones offerings is not a bad business decision, and as far as us old relics that love the 1911, there will always be new generations that enjoy them and value them, but the numbers won't be like our generation. They still need customers. Support for our 1911's, will always (at least in our lifetimes and at least one generation forward) will be supported and taken care of well (IMHO). Through the Berryville Bash, I know many of the next generation gunsmiths there, and they are just as devoted to producing and supporting Wilson 1911's as ever, including newer generation management. Relax and take a breath.
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  #4  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:42 PM
SonnyAK SonnyAK is offline
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I have an entire wall full of "euro trash" guns and scattered in that are a couple of WC's and some other nice 1911's. How many guns costing anywhere from $3k-$10k can someone realistically afford to own or desire to beat-up with certain types of use? I think WC is just being realistic and continuing to keep growing with an ever-changing market. Good for them! You can grow and with the change or you can just let the market outgrow you. It's a heck of a lot better than shuttering the doors and walking away like so many other companies are forced to do when they refuse to realize what it takes to stay alive. At least this way they'll hopefully be around a bit longer when you do need them to work on your "real Wilson's"...
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:19 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Pretty much covered in the other thread...

My opining bottom line on WC:

-Bill is all in on 9mm platforms and that is where their major innovation has been going.
-No sign the above is going to change.
-45 platform is now their "Legacy" product, no new major innovation since their 8R flatwire magazine which was a home-run. But where is our 45 3.25" and our 45 high-cap, etc?
-Dropping these other calibers is disappointing, and will force some of us to look elsewhere for a 38S, etc., even though WC-CS is still preferred (generally).

It is what it is, and life will go on...

C.A.

(I was considering a 6th WC consolidating all my learning shooting over the last 10 years into a perfect 1911 either in 38S or a comped 45 in 5". Both of these are now off the table with WC because they have discontinued 38s and the 5" 45 comped barrel starts as a 460...I have no interest personally paying 2.5K-3K$ to support shooting 9mm power factors, I do just fine with 9mm PFs in all plastic guns and as far as I am concerned in 9mm plastic runs more-reliably-(easier) than 9mm-1911s and its derivatives).

Meh, WC probably did me a favor, do I really need any more pistols
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2020, 05:37 AM
Lab4Us Lab4Us is offline
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Originally Posted by None.Ya View Post
I think its called expanding your business and diversifying.

When us old diehard 1911 fans die off they still need customers.
Yep, same reason you have to “special order” a manual transmission on many sports cars, if they’re even available. “Too hard” to learn, though the benefits are proven...
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:06 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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The first wilsonized pistol I wanted was the brigadier tactical 9mm. For me, that was the ‘hook’ which got me to look at WC 1911s and end up buying 4 Wilson 1911s and 2 of their CQB shotguns (Remington). I never got the brigadier tactical, but plenty did and still seem to...Sometimes, besides streamlining business production, there’s an added method to the madness, getting other gun owners to look at their modified pistols. In the last 5-6 yrs I haven’t seen them (WC) produce a flop. As I said in another thread, going forward, if demand was to increase, I’m sure they might go back to caliber like 38 super, etc.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:53 AM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is online now
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If more people had been purchasing.460 Rowland & .38 Super they would remain in the production inventory.

I really wanted my next WC to be a .38S. I was hoping to order in January 2021 when I’d have the next dose of gun money to play with.

I don’t care much for any of the polymer stuff, but evidently folks are buying them.

I do, however, very much want a couple of the WC Berettas. They appeal to me and I would like at least a couple DA/SA failed guns for nightstand use.

It’s taken me forever to finally get my first WC and very disappointing to know that what I wanted next will not be offered. Hopefully Nighthawk and Alchemy will take care of me.
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Old 03-05-2020, 07:50 AM
joey neat joey neat is offline
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I have seen no change in their customer service. I'm sure their decision is made due to lack of sales. I would like to see them come out with a hi-cap .45, along the lines of STI. I own one traditional 1911, a Hackathorn in .45 and one non-traditional an EDC X9L which is an amazing gun, also have an EDC X9S on order. I would definitely order a 2011 in .45 if they come out with it.
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Old 03-05-2020, 09:42 AM
tjpaxton tjpaxton is offline
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I was of the same mindset initially, but after seeing the inprovements they made to the Sig frames, I thought oh, ok, if you can improve another manufacturers product and turn a buck, go ahead. This will feed the Wilson employees.

The diehard 1911 enthusiasts tend to be over 40 years old. The younger generation likes the plastic stuff. We may be a dying breed.

Wilson is adapting to the sign of the times.

Wilson is providing a product based on consumer demand.
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Old 03-05-2020, 10:42 AM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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Wilson is simply doing what allot of small businesses don’t, expanding their product lineup in order to survive during rough times and appeal to their future customers.

I’m not into Wilson’s Remingtons, Berettas, Glocks or Sigs. But, they are enhanced and have improvements that you won’t get anywhere else. There’s a need/want for those customized firearms and Wilson provides it.

Don’t under estimate Ryan Wilson, he knows what he’s doing. Team Wilson is stronger than ever. They’ll never abandon their 1911 roots or commitment to customer service.
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Old 03-05-2020, 10:54 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by tjpaxton View Post
I was of the same mindset initially, but after seeing the inprovements they made to the Sig frames, I thought oh, ok, if you can improve another manufacturers product and turn a buck, go ahead. This will feed the Wilson employees.

The diehard 1911 enthusiasts tend to be over 40 years old. The younger generation likes the plastic stuff. We may be a dying breed.

Wilson is adapting to the sign of the times.

Wilson is providing a product based on consumer demand.
Every single person my age I've put a Wilson 1911 in their hands aspires nothing more than being able to afford one. They have borderline religious experiences in some cases and never look at their glocks/320/HK/whatever the same way ever again. I converted two diehard Glock guys when I had them shoot their comped, optic, Gucci glocks on the clock then handed them my gun. Blew their minds

Most in my age group simply just haven't used a real 1911 and don't get how much better it performs
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:23 PM
GaryWWhite GaryWWhite is offline
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I guess that I got a little exasperated when I found out WC was actually and really into diversification. The first inkling was when BW and KH started saying they liked 9mm more than 45 ACP. The next thing was the make over on the Beretta. Enough said, I just thought WC was a different Company and not really out there just to make a buck. I dreamily thought of WC as stolid gun smiths hand making fine instruments called 1911 firearms caring little except the quality they produced. When BW turned the Company over to his son the torch was passed to something I don't like. I love my 1911 Wilson's but will probably buy a Nighthawk next. I will remain loyal to craftsmen.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:45 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by GaryWWhite View Post
I guess that I got a little exasperated when I found out WC was actually and really into diversification. The first inkling was when BW and KH started saying they liked 9mm more than 45 ACP. The next thing was the make over on the Beretta. Enough said, I just thought WC was a different Company and not really out there just to make a buck. I dreamily thought of WC as stolid gun smiths hand making fine instruments called 1911 firearms caring little except the quality they produced. When BW turned the Company over to his son the torch was passed to something I don't like. I love my 1911 Wilson's but will probably buy a Nighthawk next. I will remain loyal to craftsmen.
Have fun I guess? I have NHCs and I'll take a Wilson any day until my NHs actually can make it 1000 rounds without parts falling off, they have been great about trying to help but my gun is on trip 5 back.

Meanwhile my Wilsons are endlessly marching on......never having any issues that make them stop functioning.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:43 PM
Lab4Us Lab4Us is offline
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As long as Wilson has the older smiths who came up with the company building quality 1911s, their guns will remain awesome. When those folks retire, not sure how things will go. If the focus goes to polymer with the younger owner/smiths(?), I’d just as soon buy from the manufacturer actually producing the guns (Sig, Beretta, S&W, etc.), though I think I’ve got all the polymers I need.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:52 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Have fun I guess? I have NHCs and I'll take a Wilson any day until my NHs actually can make it 1000 rounds without parts falling off, they have been great about trying to help but my gun is on trip 5 back.

Meanwhile my Wilsons are endlessly marching on......never having any issues that make them stop functioning.
I had thought you mentioned the NH's are great some time ago. In particular the Firehawk, are you withdrawing your recommendation at this point? (NP, it happens, I use to totally love Infinity until I needed some warranty work).

I agree on the WC's ruggedness, although 4 of 5 went back of mine, it was only once each, and now they just keeeeep running...And their CS is the best. But if they are not going to do anything new with 45 offerings outside trim options and what not, not too much to get excited about if one already has a bunch of them already.

STI always comes out with interesting and cutting edge models, but my 45 has been back 3X in 2 years. They are finally going to have the 10R 45 mags Gen 2 available in 2 weeks, that would have saved 1 trip back cause the gen 1 suck, so maybe I will warm up to STI again, next to the Infinity it is my best shooter.

Infinity, well, nothing shoots like an infinity, not even WC, but the CS is not good and the 1 year warranty (which is enforced) is a disgrace for a gun at this price, so I will not buy another.

Maybe they all did me a favor - lol, WC - no new 45 innovations and dropping 38S, Infinity's CS stinks, and STI is a TBD pending their 10R mags working in 45, I probably don't need anymore guns anyway - LOL ;-).

I just put in an order for the Walther Q5 Match slide 5" (only, no frame) to upgrade by 4" PPQ9. That may be the closest I come to buying a new gun for a long time. No money issues, but have to get excited about something to spend it.
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:03 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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I guess that I got a little exasperated when I found out WC was actually and really into diversification. The first inkling was when BW and KH started saying they liked 9mm more than 45 ACP. The next thing was the make over on the Beretta. Enough said, I just thought WC was a different Company and not really out there just to make a buck. I dreamily thought of WC as stolid gun smiths hand making fine instruments called 1911 firearms caring little except the quality they produced. When BW turned the Company over to his son the torch was passed to something I don't like. I love my 1911 Wilson's but will probably buy a Nighthawk next. I will remain loyal to craftsmen.
You assert Wilson has abandoned craftsmanship and now is in it "just to make a buck". You attribute this to diversification.

Do you have any actual evidence?
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:27 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Have fun I guess? I have NHCs and I'll take a Wilson any day until my NHs actually can make it 1000 rounds without parts falling off, they have been great about trying to help but my gun is on trip 5 back.

Meanwhile my Wilsons are endlessly marching on......never having any issues that make them stop functioning.
I had thought you mentioned the NH's are great some time ago. In particular the Firehawk, are you withdrawing your recommendation at this point? (NP, it happens, I use to totally love Infinity until I needed some warranty work).

I agree on the WC's ruggedness, although 4 of 5 went back of mine, it was only once each, and now they just keeeeep running...And their CS is the best. But if they are not going to do anything new with 45 offerings outside trim options and what not, not too much to get excited about if one already has a bunch of them already.

STI always comes out with interesting and cutting edge models, but my 45 has been back 3X in 2 years. They are finally going to have the 10R 45 mags Gen 2 available in 2 weeks, that would have saved 1 trip back cause the gen 1 suck, so maybe I will warm up to STI again, next to the Infinity it is my best shooter.

Infinity, well, nothing shoots like an infinity, not even WC, but the CS is not good and the 1 year warranty (which is enforced) is a disgrace for a gun at this price, so I will not buy another.

Maybe they all did me a favor - lol, WC - no new 45 innovations and dropping 38S, Infinity's CS stinks, and STI is a TBD pending their 10R mags working in 45, I probably don't need anymore guns anyway - LOL 😉.

I just put in an order for the Walther Q5 Match slide 5" (only, no frame) to upgrade by 4" PPQ9. That may be the closest I come to buying a new gun for a long time. No money issues, but have to get excited about something to spend it.
NHs are outstandingly beautiful guns, with unrivaled triggers, they shoot and perform excellent as well with my predator II opticomp being within 5% of my carry comp but they simply do not run like a Glock so to speak. Wilsons do, they just simply work and I've yet to use anything other than Ed Brown guns in the 1911 world that can say the same.

I don't dislike NHC at all and the people there are fantastic but for example my opti-comp predator when I got it back (4th time) I went into my usual 1000/300/300 test with a 500 round burn and the sights fell off from shock at the rear and the front had its locktite melt and get loose. Then at around 700 rounds I had a fail to feed, still can't get a NHC to pass this test while my last two Wilsons have literally gone from the counter into the range with nothing more than lube at first and went 3500+ before I cleaned.

Both companies live up to their names and have awesome CS but Wilson COMBAT is a bit more up my street than Nighthawk CUSTOM. My carry gun is a tool and it must work, my competition guns are tools and must work. Every time.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:12 PM
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As long as Wilson has the older smiths who came up with the company building quality 1911s, their guns will remain awesome. When those folks retire, not sure how things will go. If the focus goes to polymer with the younger owner/smiths(?), I’d just as soon buy from the manufacturer actually producing the guns (Sig, Beretta, S&W, etc.), though I think I’ve got all the polymers I need.
They already have a newer generation of younger folks that have been trained and are currently in the build process - no difference in quality of their 1911's so far as I have been able to determine. I doubt this will change for a long, long time.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:27 PM
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Well.....at least Wilson Combat didn't go the direction of STI.

One look on the STI webpage had me scratching my head and wondering what the heck happened ? Maybe I was navigating the site incorrectly.....but a 1911 wasn't to be found....only these hybrid polymer/steel Space Force looking guns were there.

No freaking thanks.

I guess I should feel relieved that WC is still making 1911 pistols, even if not in the classic cartridge I'd been zeroing in on.....just too slowly on my part.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:46 PM
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Well.....at least Wilson Combat didn't go the direction of STI.

One look on the STI webpage had me scratching my head and wondering what the heck happened ? Maybe I was navigating the site incorrectly.....but a 1911 wasn't to be found....only these hybrid polymer/steel Space Force looking guns were there.

No freaking thanks.

I guess I should feel relieved that WC is still making 1911 pistols, even if not in the classic cartridge I'd been zeroing in on.....just too slowly on my part.
Amen, when I finally got to the point where I had some STI money to spend I took a look at their site and ... Yuck.

Went with a Wilson and I'm quite happy.

Speaking of diversification, guess Wilson is in the suppressor game now.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:47 PM
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Well.....at least Wilson Combat didn't go the direction of STI.

One look on the STI webpage had me scratching my head and wondering what the heck happened ? Maybe I was navigating the site incorrectly.....but a 1911 wasn't to be found....only these hybrid polymer/steel Space Force looking guns were there.

No freaking thanks.

I guess I should feel relieved that WC is still making 1911 pistols, even if not in the classic cartridge I'd been zeroing in on.....just too slowly on my part.
My impression, and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong, is that STI is primarily focused on 2011's and "race guns" that are competition guns; not on EDC and standard configuration guns. That could explain their website.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:53 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is online now
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Amen, when I finally got to the point where I had some STI money to spend I took a look at their site and ... Yuck.

Went with a Wilson and I'm quite happy.

Speaking of diversification, guess Wilson is in the suppressor game now.

They certainly cover a lot of ground with the product line.

I sure hope things go favorably in the 2020 election so that gun enthusiasts are able to continue supporting companies like Wilson Combat.

I'm really looking forward to my first WC.....and Lord willing...my second WC....and maybe more.

Striker & Harrish have me thinking along the lines of comped models, too.





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My impression, and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong, is that STI is primarily focused on 2011's and "race guns" that are competition guns; not on EDC and standard configuration guns. That could explain their website.

2011 & 2011-ish sure seems to be their target market.

Seemed to have race & duty type guns.

In their defense, many of the owners on the forums seem to be very pleased with them.

Just not the type of gun that interests me...at least for the foreseeable future.

Now....if the gubmint decides to come up with a group of special operators comprised of geriatric & out of shape guys with bad knees & shoulders....then I'll gear up with the tactical stuff and jump aboard.

Until then I'll be happy with conventional or semi-conventional stuff.

I consider the EDC X9 to be conventional....strikes me as a modern pistol that pays homage to the "Eurotrash" as I believe the OP labeled them.... CZ75, Beretta M92 and our own 1911 & Hi Power. Size comparison is made over and over again to the other little G19 "Eurotrash", which I have to say is one of the most handy sized guns I've ever used.

Very much looking forward to adding the EDC and then delving back into the 1911 lineup again....maybe a a longside 10mm hunting pistola.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:43 PM
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Well.....at least Wilson Combat didn't go the direction of STI.

One look on the STI webpage had me scratching my head and wondering what the heck happened ? Maybe I was navigating the site incorrectly.....but a 1911 wasn't to be found....only these hybrid polymer/steel Space Force looking guns were there.

No freaking thanks.

I guess I should feel relieved that WC is still making 1911 pistols, even if not in the classic cartridge I'd been zeroing in on.....just too slowly on my part.
And those 2011 are the absolute kings of performance even if you don't want to acknowledge it.
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Old 03-06-2020, 05:22 AM
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STI perform really well, in absolute performance IMO, it is Infinity, STI, WC, in that order. Not at all saying WC don't perform, they do like heck, but the other two just a little better...BTW, I did a perfect apples to apples shootout btwn my WC-carry-comp and my STI-CC both in 45 about 2 and a half year's ago (posted in this Folder.1911-forum), and the STI edged out the WC in performance. Various reasons for this among them are the STI has a poly grip, a better trigger, and a barrel-mounted island sight, for example.

That said, as I noted above, when one buys a gun, all the other attributes of the transaction need to be considered, like post sale-support.

Infinity falls flat there - they are nice people, the tech will spend all the time on the phone with you which you heart desires, but the CS overall is very lacking.

STI is going through branding and other changes, their 9mm run fine, the 45' questionable. I like My STI for the way it shoots, but they have a big magazine problem in 45, the G1's are garbage. The 9mm folks claim their G2's are great, I'll finally get my G2's in a few weeks. It could make a big difference - TBD.

WC are awesome, but if they aren't going to innovate on the 45 side hard to get excited for us who want to stick with the caliber. Yes, every promo for the latest trim option's has me drooling, but with 5 WC 1911's already, am I going to spend 3-4$K to get an xtack gun or the grenade-type grip which may enhance the shootability a little but still basically shoot like the 5 I already own?

Yes, 9mm is popular, especially outside the "enthusiast" segment, but 45 is still carried by many more people in this segment than 9. I don't really buy the notion that there isn't a strong market for 1911 derivatives in 45 (like a 45small, or 45high-cap). With the quality WC produces, they can produce some real differentiation in their favor along these lines.
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Last edited by combat auto; 03-06-2020 at 02:07 PM.
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