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  #26  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:11 AM
aaronsappl aaronsappl is offline
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I would think WC is making more money and employing more people than any other time.

When they came out with the X9, I thought no one is gonna buy one of those, all of us guys with the 1911's was gonna laugh that external extractor wanna be 1911 out of the market. Couple years later, I finally purchased one like everyone else.

When they came out with the Beretta brigadier, I had never shot a Beretta, guess what, I had to order one.

When they started selling and working on Glocks, I thought, this is the end. My friend that goes to the range with me, has 5 WC Glocks, he never was interested in 1911's or Wilson before.

Not only are they in the AR market, but are building most parts in house. I read not long ago, Wilson offered more caliber rounds than any other AR manufacture. The AR9 , they perfected it, now build it with the option of 3 different magazines.

I truly believe Wilson was one of the early semi custom makers that figured out how to make the 9mm 1911 run, and they are still perfecting it. I remember when they wouldn't build a commander, only a 4 inch. Now look at those commander sales.

Bill Wilson and his company truly read the market and predict what will sell and what customers want. Plus they stay true to there 1911 45 market. After reading his book, watching his videos, buying his products and experiencing the best customer service, he is one hell of a business man. I guess you could call me a WC fanboy.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:39 AM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is online now
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
And those 2011 are the absolute kings of performance even if you don't want to acknowledge it.
I've acknowledged all that I could with STI in my prior responses. I have no hands-on experience with them.

Their new lineup is alien to me. As I said, their owners seem very pleased, but I'm just not into hybrid handguns or whatever they are called.

The point I made stands.....look at their lineup 5 years ago and look at it today. Complete transformation.

They wouldn't have done it if they didn't feel the stuff would sell, I suppose.

As I said, I'm glad Wilson didn't make such a drastic move completely away from one style and into another. Dropping .38Super, .40s&w and .460Roland seems like a much smaller sacrifice in exchange for maintaining the core 1911 style.

The WC changes do hurt, somewhat, as I had future desires for .38Super & a Hunter in .460Roland would have been a pile of fun.

Companies in general must adapt to the markets. I get that....and get that in a big way. My own employer of the past 25 years has learned that lesson and learned it well. I would imagine a gun manufacturer, in particular, has even more pressure to adapt. Not only do they have the market swings to predict and cater to....they also have the political impact that directly threatens their livelihood.

If dropping three cartridges keeps the doors open and keeps their employees secure and thriving, then I will sip a big glass of "deal with it" and be happy about it.

WC is a great American success story and I hope they weather the storms for many, many more decades.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsappl View Post
I would think WC is making more money and employing more people than any other time.

When they came out with the X9, I thought no one is gonna buy one of those, all of us guys with the 1911's was gonna laugh that external extractor wanna be 1911 out of the market. Couple years later, I finally purchased one like everyone else.

When they came out with the Beretta brigadier, I had never shot a Beretta, guess what, I had to order one.

When they started selling and working on Glocks, I thought, this is the end. My friend that goes to the range with me, has 5 WC Glocks, he never was interested in 1911's or Wilson before.

Not only are they in the AR market, but are building most parts in house. I read not long ago, Wilson offered more caliber rounds than any other AR manufacture. The AR9 , they perfected it, now build it with the option of 3 different magazines.

I truly believe Wilson was one of the early semi custom makers that figured out how to make the 9mm 1911 run, and they are still perfecting it. I remember when they wouldn't build a commander, only a 4 inch. Now look at those commander sales.

Bill Wilson and his company truly read the market and predict what will sell and what customers want. Plus they stay true to there 1911 45 market. After reading his book, watching his videos, buying his products and experiencing the best customer service, he is one hell of a business man. I guess you could call me a WC fanboy.

Vey well stated.

There is much to respect about what Bill Wilson has accomplished.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:40 AM
joepilot joepilot is offline
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It's my understanding that Bill's son is actually running the company these days. Bill is primarily living in Texas and enjoying his (semi) retirement. Good on him! But time marches on, and the only thing that doesn't change is that everything changes.

Same thing happened here at EAA where I work. When the founder, Paul Poberezny, turned things over to his son Tom, things changed. People grumbled, but for the most part everyone got on with it. Then Tom retired and the person who shall not be named took over. things changed drastically, and not for the better. Enough people grumbled and that person was removed. Now we have a new CEO and things are better again, but different. Some things are good, some are not as good, but everything is different. I think it's called progress.

A friend of mine used to say "progress is a good thing. It just went on too long." Hopefully that's not the case at Wilson Combat, but time will tell. As a VERY long time 1911 enthusiast and a convert to 38 Super, I am not all that happy with this most recent "progress", but they aren't building guns for me. They're building guns to see and make a profit. Apparently their studies have shown them that the profit going forward isn't going to be in 38 Super or the other calibers they're dropping. I'm sad, but I'll get over it. Can't afford one of their pistols anyway, so who I feel isn't going to have any effect on their profit margin anyway. But it's a personal blow because I was saving up for an Ultralight Carry Compact in 38 Super. Guess that money will be spent elsewhere.

Such is life.
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  #29  
Old 03-06-2020, 09:06 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by joepilot View Post
It's my understanding that Bill's son is actually running the company these days. Bill is primarily living in Texas and enjoying his (semi) retirement. Good on him! But time marches on, and the only thing that doesn't change is that everything changes.

Same thing happened here at EAA where I work. When the founder, Paul Poberezny, turned things over to his son Tom, things changed. People grumbled, but for the most part everyone got on with it. Then Tom retired and the person who shall not be named took over. things changed drastically, and not for the better. Enough people grumbled and that person was removed. Now we have a new CEO and things are better again, but different. Some things are good, some are not as good, but everything is different. I think it's called progress.

A friend of mine used to say "progress is a good thing. It just went on too long." Hopefully that's not the case at Wilson Combat, but time will tell. As a VERY long time 1911 enthusiast and a convert to 38 Super, I am not all that happy with this most recent "progress", but they aren't building guns for me. They're building guns to see and make a profit. Apparently their studies have shown them that the profit going forward isn't going to be in 38 Super or the other calibers they're dropping. I'm sad, but I'll get over it. Can't afford one of their pistols anyway, so who I feel isn't going to have any effect on their profit margin anyway. But it's a personal blow because I was saving up for an Ultralight Carry Compact in 38 Super. Guess that money will be spent elsewhere.

Such is life.
Well put....

And if one is into 9mm they have a lot to cheer about with WC's direction - and good on them, I certainly don't begrudge them...But if one is into these other calibers, not a lot to get excited about...That said, I of course still hope WC thrives and is around for a long time, I have 5 warranties I want to be honored for me and my Children's- Children :-).

Anecdotally, I do wonder how WC will honor 38s warranties further out if say the barrel fails or some such thing. Or the Hunter barrels fails for example. Overall, I do not get why it would be so difficult for them to support 1911-38s if they are going to support 1911-9mm, is there really that much difference in the manufacturing process besides sticking one's hand in a different bin to grab (some) of the parts?
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Last edited by combat auto; 03-06-2020 at 11:35 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:32 AM
azguy1911 azguy1911 is offline
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didn't some state/claim they only made a few dozen 38 supers in 2019?
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  #31  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:34 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Not worth the machine time to have the barrels sitting around for years until someone wants a very specific gun. My 2018 made super sentinel has a barrel from 2016, my gun was one of THREE made that year of the type and it's barrel was from a run years backs. Now that same run of barrels could have all been 9mm instead so 16 hours of machine time would have seen profit instead of a shelf for two plus years.


I get that, I also hope Wilson diversifies more into race type guns since I would love nothing more than to replace my CZ CM and shadows with Wilson products and I think it would be fitting because at one time Wilson were the undisputed kings of IPSC and everyone used the supergrade to dominate. I think they should do it again and crush STI and reclaim their rightful crown, I've held off a 2011 for a while with that hope that my fastest gun ever will wear the WC emblem.
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  #32  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:54 AM
Bigdaddymike Bigdaddymike is offline
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Originally Posted by GaryWWhite View Post
I guess that I got a little exasperated when I found out WC was actually and really into diversification. The first inkling was when BW and KH started saying they liked 9mm more than 45 ACP. The next thing was the make over on the Beretta. Enough said, I just thought WC was a different Company and not really out there just to make a buck. I dreamily thought of WC as stolid gun smiths hand making fine instruments called 1911 firearms caring little except the quality they produced. When BW turned the Company over to his son the torch was passed to something I don't like. I love my 1911 Wilson's but will probably buy a Nighthawk next. I will remain loyal to craftsmen.
If wilson just built 1911's they'd not be around long, not innovate, not develop. One thing I know Bill loves doing is R&D. He spends much of his time doing that daily. That's where all of the great, new rifle calibers, the EDC and EDC X9 and many, many others came from. Ryan's hand is in the future. He is young, grew up at WC and has a young family and enough business sense to know what people want. Craftsmen? There are few better that the one's Wilson employs. NOBODY works in that shop without Vic Tibbets approval and he is one of the best at the craft. There are other makes of fine 1911's for sure, but to say NHC is only producing 1911's is a stretch. They do Korth Revolvers, shotguns, double stacks, bougie guns (ala Ed Brown lately) and Hi Powers. There are solid smiths at all the major companies, Baer, Springfield, WC, NHC, GI, ACW, Cabot, et al. The also know how to hone their craft to take other products and elevate them to a 'whole nutha level'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
They already have a newer generation of younger folks that have been trained and are currently in the build process - no difference in quality of their 1911's so far as I have been able to determine. I doubt this will change for a long, long time.
The quality of Wilson's 1911's has never been better, IMHO. As they learn new stuff they constantly apply the technology to what they do. They really do make a "better mousetrap" ...Their parts have made my Glocks extreme performers and their new Sig Modules, when back in stock will undoubtedly make my P320s even superior to what they are now/

Last edited by Bigdaddymike; 03-06-2020 at 09:27 PM.
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  #33  
Old 03-06-2020, 01:40 PM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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I don’t believe there’s a need for panic, just because some calibers are no longer cataloged, especially if it pertains to warranty work.

Just because an item is no longer listed for sale, doesn’t necessarily mean that Wilson won’t accommodate a special order.

They’ve done this in the past many, many times - Turnbull finishes, old Wilson medallions, etc...Folks that want Wilson products that are no longer advertised, should contact a Wilson Master Dealer, those folks have a superb business relationship with the manufacturer.
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  #34  
Old 03-06-2020, 01:54 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Very well said Mike, and I agree wholeheartedly.

US1911 - I have found that approach to be best, and what you said has been true in my experience as well. One can always ask, the worst they can do is say no; then again, they might just say yes and everyone is happy.
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  #35  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:08 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by US1911 View Post
I don’t believe there’s a need for panic, just because some calibers are no longer cataloged, especially if it pertains to warranty work.

Just because an item is no longer listed for sale, doesn’t necessarily mean that Wilson won’t accommodate a special order.

They’ve done this in the past many, many times - Turnbull finishes, old Wilson medallions, etc...Folks that want Wilson products that are no longer advertised, should contact a Wilson Master Dealer, those folks have a superb business relationship with the manufacturer.
They offered to repair slide to dust over drag on my 1987 supergrade free of charge so I know warranty will never be an issue.
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  #36  
Old 03-07-2020, 08:29 AM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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They offered to repair slide to dust over drag on my 1987 supergrade free of charge so I know warranty will never be an issue.
Exactly! Wilson will always take care of Wilson products, whether or not they’re still in production. That’s why I don’t understand the fear of receiving Wilson support after a product or caliber has been retired.
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  #37  
Old 03-07-2020, 11:41 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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This subject (OP) is quite important IMHO.

Let's not confuse diversification with abandonment. Two different subjects.

I salute diversification. I do not salute abandonment. Especially when I strongly guess there is very little P&L benefit in the abandonment announcement. A microscopic short term P&L benefit, achieved at the cost of no longer offering what some 1911 enthusiasts desire, is not such a good thing. Not the same as a Pyrrhic victory, but meriting some reflective thought along such lines.

I shared my thoughts in the other thread. Here, I only wish to say that this is an important cross-roads moment; not to be trifled with as a trivial (in context) short term P&L matter.

And again, let's not confuse diversification with abandonment ... these are wholly separate matters.
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  #38  
Old 03-07-2020, 11:51 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
This subject (OP) is quite important IMHO.

Let's not confuse diversification with abandonment. Two different subjects.

I salute diversification. I do not salute abandonment. Especially when I strongly guess there is very little P&L benefit in the abandonment announcement. A microscopic short term P&L benefit, achieved at the cost of no longer offering what some 1911 enthusiasts desire, is not such a good thing. Not the same as a Pyrrhic victory, but meriting some reflective thought along such lines.

I shared my thoughts in the other thread. Here, I only wish to say that this is an important cross-roads moment; not to be trifled with as a trivial (in context) short term P&L matter.

And again, let's not confuse diversification with abandonment ... these are wholly separate matters.
It is their business, they can and will do what they want (of course).

But that doesn't change the fact that this is the best and most insightful post of the thread.
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2020, 07:00 PM
GaryWWhite GaryWWhite is offline
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The only one happy about WC's abandonment of the 460 Rowland is Johnny Rowland himself. I recall calling his Company one day to inquire about some brass for reloading. The person who later stated he was Johnny Rowland was really bent out of shape when I told him I owned a WC Hunter in 460 Rowland. He started blathering about patent infringement and theft of product rights. I told him I was sorry I called and hung up. I still like the cartridge though and wish it was continued in the line. The 460 Rowland is a remarkably powerful cartridge which I use as a SD gun. When I was a Sheriff's Officer in the early 80's I carried a S&W Nickel Mod 29 6 inch in 180 gr. and felt comfort carrying same. In Sedgwick County Kansas (Wichita) the County was huge and the beats were each about 80 square miles for one officer. You didn't ride squad and there were 6 beats. You had to be good with the weapons you carried and I felt grateful to carry the Mod 29.
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:20 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is online now
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I own several Wilsons, a NH, and a new STI--all in .45ACP.

1. The Wilsons are perpetual motion machines, built like tanks, and will live forever.

2. My NH has also performed flawlessly, and the one time I had to send it back to my screwup, the Customer Service was fast and top shelf.

3. I like my STI so far. It has performed just as well as any of my other 1911s, but their Customer Service is close to being non-existent, and it does not appear that there is anyone in-charge and calling the shots. Next Monday I will be entering Week-6 of my attempt to buy mags for it at a discount rate they advertise. And I won't go into the other other two, major problems I had w/ them between Oct and Feb.
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  #41  
Old 03-14-2020, 04:49 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
I own several Wilsons, a NH, and a new STI--all in .45ACP.

1. The Wilsons are perpetual motion machines, built like tanks, and will live forever.

2. My NH has also performed flawlessly, and the one time I had to send it back to my screwup, the Customer Service was fast and top shelf.

3. I like my STI so far. It has performed just as well as any of my other 1911s, but their Customer Service is close to being non-existent, and it does not appear that there is anyone in-charge and calling the shots. Next Monday I will be entering Week-6 of my attempt to buy mags for it at a discount rate they advertise. And I won't go into the other other two, major problems I had w/ them between Oct and Feb.
Similar opinion from me...5 WCs, 4 of them had to be returned within 6 months, but once they were fixed they have run 100% for many years. Built like a Tank.

STI I have one, I would use a Race-Car as the analogy, dang things are fast design to perform, but mine has been back 3X in 2 years, worst problem being a cracked slide, maybe it doesn't like, even with a comp, the 205 PFs from HST45...I want to love this gun again, I spoke to Ricky who is one of their Warranty-Smith-Proe's and he will be sending me two Generation 2 10R 45 acp mags as soon as he gets them, any day now, they were finally developed and field tested a few weeks ago after a 3 year wait. Won't help prevent another cracked slide, but good magazine (the G1 totally suck) can make a big difference in some of the other issues I had with this gun...I did a shootout btwn my STI-CC and my WC-CC 2.5 years ago and the STI outperformed it some. Love both (if I can get the STI to behave), Race-car or Tank, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't :-).
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Last edited by combat auto; 03-14-2020 at 04:51 AM.
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  #42  
Old 03-14-2020, 09:27 AM
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STI I have one, I would use a Race-Car as the analogy, dang things are fast design to perform, but mine has been back 3X in 2 years, worst problem being a cracked slide, maybe it doesn't like, even with a comp, the 205 PFs from HST45...I want to love this gun again, I spoke to Ricky who is one of their Warranty-Smith-Proe's and he will be sending me two Generation 2 10R 45 acp mags as soon as he gets them, any day now, they were finally developed and field tested a few weeks ago after a 3 year wait. Won't help prevent another cracked slide, but good magazine (the G1 totally suck) can make a big difference in some of the other issues I had with this gun...I did a shootout btwn my STI-CC and my WC-CC 2.5 years ago and the STI outperformed it some. Love both (if I can get the STI to behave), Race-car or Tank, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't :-).
Not meaning to highjack this thread, but am hoping the metallurgy of my 2019 Staccato P is superior to the older ones, as I will be very unhappy if it suffers a cracked anything.

As for magazines, it came w/ two of the Gen-2 mags, and I have not had a problem w/ either. Once I get more mags, this gun is going to get shot a lot more in preparation to being carried on-duty. My duty leather from Ted Blocker will be here Monday, but I need those mags.
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  #43  
Old 03-14-2020, 09:37 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
Not meaning to highjack this thread, but am hoping the metallurgy of my 2019 Staccato P is superior to the older ones, as I will be very unhappy if it suffers a cracked anything.

As for magazines, it came w/ two of the Gen-2 mags, and I have not had a problem w/ either. Once I get more mags, this gun is going to get shot a lot more in preparation to being carried on-duty. My duty leather from Ted Blocker will be here Monday, but I need those mags.
What caliber are those Gen 2's, and how many rounds in the mag?

thx,
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  #44  
Old 05-01-2020, 02:40 AM
DanH DanH is offline
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All the Gen 2s are 9mm. Mag capacity depends on mag size, but the common 126/140mm mags are 17/20 rounds.
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