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  #1  
Old 09-09-2019, 04:48 PM
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My Taurus G2C Adventures

Consolidating some info from another thread so I don't have to retype it.

First post:
I went to a nearby LGS and ended up buying a nice inexpensive truck gun, an all-black Taurus G2C with night sights. I had admired the Taurus but didn't know you could get it with night sights ($50 more). Went home and got a gun to trade in, to lessen the pain on my wallet. Shot it today; shoots low but accurately. I shot 50 rounds at various distances from 15 to 30 feet, then some groups at 75 feet; all using Remington UMC ball. At 75 feet with Hornady Critical Defense it got 3 of 5 shots in 7/8", 6.5" low of POA; the other two were 12" low and touching. So I need to adjust my sighting method for these sights; i.e., treat them as combat sights and just get the front sight on the target, rear sight low. It is after all a SD gun.

Second post:
Breaking in my Taurus right now. Having an issue with feeding, for some reason. The first 50 or so rounds all fed fine, then problems started cropping up. This was irrespective of which of the two mags I was using. Disassembled the mags, smoothed the followers, lightly oiled the springs. No help. Still looking into it. Just polished the mags' feed lips and both the barrel''s and action's feed ramps, and will shoot it tmw. Primarily using the very reliable and good-feeding Remington UMC ball ammo.

Third post:
Update on the Taurus. Looks like the issue is the mags after all. Rounds will nose dive sometimes as they feed. I'm thinking it's the design of the front of the follower. Might also call Taurus to see if they have an updated mag. Looking into Sig P226 mags as a replacement, after some Youtube research. Also ordered an upgraded SS recoil spring assembly from Lakeline LLC.

Today: Went to the range and tested the mags. Nope, still FTFing twice per mag. Grabbed a Sig P226 15-round mag off our rental gun, loaded it up, it fed all rounds flawlessly. Gonna tinker with the G2C mags more to see if I can mod them successfully.

I don't want to deal with Taurus CS, which from dsk's thread I have learned is horrible.

Another issue I am having is that it is very hard to rack the slide to chamber a round from a full mag, just using my thumb and the edge of my index finger. I have to use three to four fingers on one side and the heel of my hand on the other. With no mag (or an empty mag, if I want to lock the slide back) it racks easily.
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Last edited by TominMO; 09-10-2019 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:15 PM
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Think I have the feeding issue licked. Took mag 1 apart and increased the angle of the spring where it meets the follower, to put more pressure on the front of the follower. Comparison pic tmw when I get better lighting. Shot 11 rounds, everything fed perfectly. I'll shoot a few more mags worth out of this one, and do it to mag 2 if mag 1 continues to feed well. Mag 1 will still hold 12 rounds, but I have to use my whole hand on the slide to cycle the first round into the chamber. With only 11 rounds in the mag, it loads easily with just thumb and index finger.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:03 AM
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Here's a pic I just took of my two mags. The one with the white dot on the baseplate is mag 1. The spring angle at the top isn't really any different than mag 2's, but you can see that the spring end is angled differently. Spring 1's end is angled more downwards; i.e., the near side is more upwards, and I think that makes the difference. Spring 2 is unmodified. I have since modified spring 2 to look like spring 1, and am taking them to the range today to see how they run.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:37 PM
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Went to the range today, same story. Mag #1 worked well for two mags' worth of ammo. Mag #2 had a FTF at about round 4 or 5. So took it home and tweaked the spring again. When I go back tmw, I'll bring my needle-nose so I can tweak it right there.

I also installed the Lakeline SS guide rod and spring set ($28.95), which came today while I was at the range. Definitely looks to be higher quality than the stock setup with its plastic guide rod, and small spring being slightly arched. I will also order their SS striker guide ($16.95) to replace the stock orange plastic one. Not too concerned about the need for this from a reliability standpoint, but supposedly it does help slightly with the trigger feel.

I will also be buying a Mec-Gar Sig P226 18-round mag, just to know i have a proven mag for the gun. (OK, plus more range fun, and as a backup mag.) I already ordered the 3D-printed mag sleeve for it from this vendor on eBay. $9 shipped.

So once I get all these other parts, I'll be about $400 into the gun (remember, night sights). My P365 I'm into for about $650, with two extra mags (12 and 15 rounds) to augment the stock 10-rounders.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:31 PM
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Thanks for timeline and how you may have fixed the problem.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:12 PM
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The two I owned (PT-111 G2, virtually the same gun except with a lawyer lock) never had failures to feed but they did have serious extraction issues. I had 5 mags and all ran fine. I ended up selling one of them, but I kept one and so far it's still running okay since coming back from Taurus. But yes, their customer service stinks on ice. Seasons change and your kids grow up and move out of the house while you're still waiting to get your gun back.

EDIT: Actually I went back and re-read my original thread, and the two pistols I had mistakenly received as replacements had numerous failure-to-feed issues. And that was with the same mags I've been running my two pistols with. So the fault was with the guns, not the mags. Something to keep in mind while diagnosing yours.
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Last edited by dsk; 09-11-2019 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
The two I owned (PT-111 G2, virtually the same gun except with a lawyer lock) never had failures to feed but they did have serious extraction issues. I had 5 mags and all ran fine. I ended up selling one of them, but I kept one and so far it's still running okay since coming back from Taurus. But yes, their customer service stinks on ice. Seasons change and your kids grow up and move out of the house while you're still waiting to get your gun back.

EDIT: Actually I went back and re-read my original thread, and the two pistols I had mistakenly received as replacements had numerous failure-to-feed issues. And that was with the same mags I've been running my two pistols with. So the fault was with the guns, not the mags. Something to keep in mind while diagnosing yours.
Thanks. I still suspect the issue is the mags, in my case.
a. First mag now runs well when shooting, after tinkering with it.
b. P226 mag also ran well when shooting.
c. Second mag hangs up consistently about 1/3 - 1/2way through. Nosediving strongly suspected.
d. When cycling rounds through by hand, I am getting jams with both mags. Mag #1 far less frequently than mag #2, which is almost every round. When I get to the range today, I will borrow the P226 mag again and see how it does with hand-cycling.
e. The feeding process is pretty straightforward on semiautos. I have polished the barrel's feed ramp, which seems like the only mod that might be needed on the gun itself. Never had such severe feeding issues with any other gun.

When I was first breaking it in, I alternated between the mags. They had been loaded up overnight to help break in the mag spring. When I got to about 50 - 60 rounds, I started having feeding issues. Until then there were none. So each mag had about 25 - 30 rounds through it, then all of a sudden, problems. Now that could argue for it being a gun issue, not mags. But the P226 mag works great, so.....

Interestingly, racking the slide with a full 12 rounds in the mag is a chore--presumably by heavy pressure on the bottom of the slide from the top round, which I think is caused by a severely-compressed mag spring. By leaving just one round out, no problem. So I will now load only 11 into the mags.

EDIT: Just took both mags apart again and re-tweaked the springs for a more upward slant at the top front. They both are now hand-cycling perfectly! :-) Hopefully that will continue at the range with actual shooting.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:38 PM
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Back from the range with my magazine report.

Both functioned well with the Remington UMC ball. So I tried four more ammo types:
Hornady Critical Duty 135gr
Hornady Critical Defense 115gr
DRT 85gr HP
Aguila 124gr FMJ ball

The mags/gun would only cycle the Critical Duty. The other three were FTFeed on the first round out of the mag, i.e. hand-racking the slide.

Went and got the Sig P226 mag. Gun fed/fired/ejected all types of rounds perfectly. So it's definitely a Taurus mag problem. Went to my fave LGS and ordered two Mec-Gar P226 18 rd mags, $23 apiece.

Got home and went to work on #2 mag's follower. (#1 seems a bit more reliable.) I sanded down the highest part so that there is less of a slope at the front. I'll try it this way, and if needed can sand it down more. Trying to get a flat-top effect here. I'll check the results at work tmw, and take my needle-nose and sandpaper for more work on it so I can retest it the same day, to save a trip back to the range.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:08 PM
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Just be careful you don't end up wasting $300 worth of ammo trying to fix a $200 handgun.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Just be careful you don't end up wasting $300 worth of ammo trying to fix a $200 handgun.
I was planning on hiring a research team to handle the issue. Probably have two followers custom made by a major magazine manufacturer out of stainless steel. So you don't think that would be cost-effective?
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:19 PM
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If you're on Taurus' payroll, sure. Otherwise I assume you're doing this simply for the satisfaction of being able to say you managed to fix a manufacturer's design flaw all on your own. Unfortunately your efforts won't likely be recognized or appreciated by the people whose job should've been to fix these problems in the first place.

The fact is that cheap handguns like the Taurus G2 are a crapshoot. A lot of people got good ones, but a lot got bad ones as well. I got two bad ones that were fixed, and then accidentally ended up with two more bad ones as well. As a result, while I still have one left I no longer trust it for use as anything but a range toy. And to be honest I have no use for it as a cheap range toy either... when I sold the other one I basically ended up giving it away so to even sell the remaining one is a waste of time for me. And I wouldn't use it as a "truck gun" either, because while a TG can be cheap it still has to be reliable. If you want to continue to troubleshoot and play around with yours as a weekend gunsmithing project more power to you, but for me any cheap gun that can't easily be made to run right ultimately ends up being sold off or stripped and sold for spare parts. I have bought way too many garbage guns in recent years and have much more important things to do with my free time. I've also learned my lesson about being lured into buying guns just because they were unbelievably cheap.

BTW if you're going to continue to tinker with it you might consider seeing what happens with SIG springs in the mags (assuming they fit). I suspect the issue may be weak springs not lifting the rounds into place quickly enough. That often causes nosedive issues because the slide is moving too fast for the follower to catch up to it. It's another common issue with many compact 9mms. It would also explain why your pistol seemed to run okay at first but then began having problems after it was broken in.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 09-12-2019 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
If you're on Taurus' payroll, sure. Otherwise I assume you're doing this simply for the satisfaction of being able to say you managed to fix a manufacturer's design flaw all on your own. Unfortunately your efforts won't likely be recognized or appreciated by the people whose job should've been to fix these problems in the first place.

The fact is that cheap handguns like the Taurus G2 are a crapshoot. A lot of people got good ones, but a lot got bad ones as well. I got two bad ones that were fixed, and then accidentally ended up with two more bad ones as well. As a result, while I still have one left I no longer trust it for use as anything but a range toy. And to be honest I have no use for it as a cheap range toy either... when I sold the other one I basically ended up giving it away so to even sell the remaining one is a waste of time for me. And I wouldn't use it as a "truck gun" either, because while a TG can be cheap it still has to be reliable. If you want to continue to troubleshoot and play around with yours as a weekend gunsmithing project more power to you, but for me any cheap gun that can't easily be made to run right ultimately ends up being sold off or stripped and sold for spare parts. I have bought way too many garbage guns in recent years and have much more important things to do with my free time. I've also learned my lesson about being lured into buying guns just because they were unbelievably cheap.

BTW if you're going to continue to tinker with it you might consider seeing what happens with SIG springs in the mags (assuming they fit). I suspect the issue may be weak springs not lifting the rounds into place quickly enough. That often causes nosedive issues because the slide is moving too fast for the follower to catch up to it. It's another common issue with many compact 9mms. It would also explain why your pistol seemed to run okay at first but then began having problems after it was broken in.
Yeah, just enjoy the challenge.

With Sig P226 mags I expect it to be a reliable gun, so I will continue to prove/disprove that at the range until I am satisfied. Reliable = truck gun. Not gonna leave in the vehicle overnight, just while I am in a building that prohibits CCW.

I am annoyed that it shoots so low--they did a poor job matching up the front and rear sights for height. But for a TG it would still work, as we are talking short real-world distances. Also, statistically you seldom even have to fire a shot to dissuade the two-legged predator, who suddenly remembers urgent business somewhere else.

Might try the Sig mag springs idea. I see that Wolff has them for under $8 for the P226, but IDK if that spring will work in my G2C mags. They don't have any for the PT111/G2 series.

Here is what dsk does with his free time.....
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Old 09-14-2019, 03:31 PM
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At the range yesterday, mag #1 performed flawlessly with both Rem UMC 115gr and Aguila 124gr FMJ. Mag #2 jammed once per full mag with the Aguila. Always seems to be about round 5 or 6, so I'm thinking weak spring-related. I took both mags apart and lengthened the springs, to see if I can get more tension back into them.

After shooting, stopped by my LGS and ordered two Mec-Gar P226 18-round mags. $23 each.

Today my G2C SS striker guide and P226 3D-printed mag spacer came in the mail. Very quick service; ordered both on the 11th. Installed the striker guide, and the trigger does indeed seem smoother. Getting the mags on Tues or Wed. Fitting the spacer under the grip, it looks like the Sig mag will be 1/2" longer--for six extra rounds! Need to order another mag spacer, this time in another color so as to quickly ID which mag I am using.

Also, I stuck a couple of small pieces of black grip tape on top of the rear sights, in an effort to let me aim normally and bring the POI up. Testing it on Monday. Probably do a shootoff with range ammo, G2C vs SCCY CPX-2 vs P365.

So I'm into the gun for $430 with night sights, a couple of upgraded parts and two far better, higher-capacity mags. (Actually my OTD price was $106, not $330, due to my trading in a gun to get this one.)
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Old 09-15-2019, 11:19 AM
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Unfortunately stretching springs is only a temporary fix and actually ruins them over time. Also, while I like most of the stuff Lakeline sells I actually had problems with their recoil guide rods in my G2 pistols. The rear flange quickly got chewed up in use so I stopped using them and put the original guide rods back in place. Keep an eye on your guide rod to be sure it's not getting chewed up either.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 09-15-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Unfortunately stretching springs is only a temporary fix and actually ruins them over time. Also, while I like most of the stuff Lakeline sells I actually had problems with their recoil guide rods in my G2 pistols. The rear flange quickly got chewed up in use so I stopped using them and put the original guide rods back in place. Keep an eye on your guide rod to be sure it's not getting chewed up either.
Thanks for the tip; I'll keep an eye on it.

As far as the G2C mag springs, I consider those mags a write-off anyway unless I can find some high-quality substitute springs. A pity; how much would it have cost Taurus to use actual good-quality springs?

Much of the reason that other countries can sell their guns cheaper here has to do with their economy; specifically, manufacturing and labor costs. Price of a foreign-made gun is a very weak indicator of quality; i.e. a cheap gun made in the US is probably gonna be inferior to one made pretty much anywhere else. Like this one for example.....
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Old 09-15-2019, 11:42 AM
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Taurus is like most lower-end gun manufacturers such as Kel-Tec and SCCY. If only they put just a little more quality control into their guns and charged another $50 per pistol to cover it they'd still have bargain guns that could give the name brands a run for their money. Unfortunately they seem obsessed with making the lowest-cost guns possible, and it shows in the fact that every other gun they make is a piece of junk. When you get a good one you'll sing its praises and brag about how it's better than your buddy's Glock, but there are too many made alongside them that aren't.

In my opinion the absolute best budget gun on the market is Smith & Wesson's SD9VE. They're ugly and have a lousy trigger, but they are built like tanks and just run and run and run. And they usually sell for around $250 in most places.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 09-16-2019, 05:48 PM
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Did a quick comparison of three guns: Sig P365, SCCY CPX-2, Taurus G2C. Shot at 20 feet, three 5-shot groups of Rem UMC 115gr ball followed by one 5-shot group of Hornady Critical Defense.

All guns shot similarly in terms of accuracy, and there was only one FTE--the CPX-2, into which I have installed a Galloway Precision 20# recoil spring (stock is 16#). Possibly the 20# spring will prefer 124gr or 147gr. The other guns' recoil springs feel more like 16ish#.

Below I have measured each group center-to-center, best 4 of 5 shots, followed by the sight radius of each gun. First three numbers per line are the Rem UMC results, next the HCD; in italics is the four groups' size total, then the gun's sight radius. Guns were shot in this order.

Sig Sauer P365
2.00".....1.63".....1.75".....1.50".....6.88"..........4.75"

SCCY CPX-2
1.38".....2.25".....1.38".....1.63".....6.63"..........4.50"

Taurus G2C
1.00".....1.00".....1.75".....1.38".....5.13"..........5.00"

Yes, the Taurus outshot the Sig! Results not too scientific though; standing unsupported, shooting a bit too fast, especially at first. But still. Thinking of a re-match with these two guns. The Sig has the best trigger, and the Taurus is not bad either. (Edit: I'll probably just re-shoot the Sig tmw, same conditions.)

My experiment of putting some grip tape on top of the rear sights worked. Rather than being about 4" low at 20 feet, shots were averaging about 1" low. The other two guns shot pretty much to POA.

The SCCY has a very long and heavy pull, and a long reset. Definitely would slow down rate of fire. Need to try some heavier ammo to see if the FTE happens again. This was the first failure of any kind with this gun, and after the recoil spring change.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:34 PM
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Shot the Sig more better today. Same distance and ammo, best 4 of 5. I cheated and took about 15 brain warm-up shots first.

Sig Sauer P365
0.54".....1.17".....1.27".....0.82".....3.80"

Also shot a full mag of Aguila 124gr RN in both the SCCY and the Taurus, for function check. All performed well. Shooting a bit too quickly for best marksmanship. About 2/3 of the shots in each group were around 1.7".
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:14 PM
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The P365 is intrinsically a very accurate pistol, but its small grip makes it squirm in the hand and many folks can't shoot them too well. The Taurus has a much more hand-filling grip and I suspect that's why you were shooting better with it.

I used to own a SCCY, and it was also intrinsically very accurate. However it didn't fit my hand well and the loooooong DAO trigger required a lot of concentration. As a result I usually shot poorly with it, although I did do great with it whenever I slowed down and took my time pulling the trigger.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
The P365 is intrinsically a very accurate pistol, but its small grip makes it squirm in the hand and many folks can't shoot them too well. The Taurus has a much more hand-filling grip and I suspect that's why you were shooting better with it.

I used to own a SCCY, and it was also intrinsically very accurate. However it didn't fit my hand well and the loooooong DAO trigger required a lot of concentration. As a result I usually shot poorly with it, although I did do great with it whenever I slowed down and took my time pulling the trigger.
For the 365, I bought a Hogue grip sleeve to give a little more thickness. Definitely worth it for me. Also added a 12-round mag to fully support the pinky; another good upgrade.

When I shoot the SCCY, I pull the trigger back most of the way first, and treat it as the first stage of a two-stage trigger. Then I only have to pull it back a little more for it to break. I also added a Galloway Precision flat trigger, which removes some of the long travel. In a SD situation of course you would just be pulling the trigger as fast as you could.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:18 PM
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Taurus G2c with Sig P226 18-round mag, and eBay spacer. Stock G2C 12-rounder next to it for comparison. Room for one extra pinky finger, or plenty of room for guys with large hands. Or women like this one.
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Last edited by TominMO; 09-18-2019 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:56 PM
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TominMO TominMO is offline
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Shot the G2C, CPX-2 and P365 today, with all mags, using 124gr Aguila and 158gr Fiocchi flat nose (forgot brand--S&B?). Every round cycled, even in the formerly problematic G2C stock mags. Maybe they just need more break-in, or the spring stretching which I did.

I now consider the G2C to be a competent backup gun/truck gun; esp. with the Mec-Gar P226 mag, since I don't feel a need to carry a backup mag with 18+1 in the gun.
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Old 03-03-2020, 02:20 PM
Jennifers Jennifers is offline
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If you think Taurus CS stinks, try Ruger, Henry, Lee Reloading, Kimber. Not only does the item come back not fixed, it is usually either scratched/banged up or doesn't work at all
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:07 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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6" low at 25 yards would not even get my attention - that's about 2" at 7 yds which is a much more likely distance for a pocket pistol and pretty good targeting. Maybe you're holding a little '6:00-ish'?
The only reason I came here is because I suddenly realized that I might be interested in a G2 and a G2C. I like my older 24-7 Pro .45. Its one of those that was recalled but mine has always worked great. Plus, I put night sights on it. Its one of those guns that seems right to my hand and it has a manual safety that was carried over in the G2. The G2 would replace my CZ75 P-01 and the G2C would replace my Kel Tec P-11. I require a manual safety for a striker-fired pistol and the trigger lever safety doesn't count.
I never have taken to the P-01 and the Kel Tec has that really hard pull, but I'll probably keep it - that thing has been with me for a long time. Maybe I'll send it to FL for a 'fluff and buff'.
Anyway, if the G2 fits me like the old one, I'll buy both of them. They are selling locally (G2) for $250. Then I'll most likely let the P-01 go.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:01 PM
longarm longarm is offline
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The funny thing is, I've been carrying the G2c for half a year now. I bought 2 spare mags the same day I picked it up, and I've fed it S&B 115, 124's and a whole mess of handloads: lead, rn, tc, hp, coated and jacketed .. 95gr, 115, 124, 135, 147.. Lotsa' testing, all about 4 to 8 yards. (where I'd expect trouble)

Never had a single FTF or FTE. Never had a magazine act squirrely. I usually just drop a round in the chamber, slam it closed and slap in a full mag for carry. At the range I either thumb in a few rounds and rack it, or I use the maglula to pack the mag.

I was trying to adjust the sights this week, and I give up: it readjusted itself while I was shooting and it's ALWAYS low, left. Groups are iffy, but I've loads for 135 and 124 that shred the targets nicely - Low. And left. (Hey, it groups with them so I blame me).

If I didn't have a Kareen showing up next week & BHSS stuff to get, I'd invest in a truglo rear sight and take a file to the front sight. The Lakeline LLC SS guiderod/spring and the SS firing-pin/striker guide are nice and I've used both since the day I bought this thing new.

It's not my EAA Witness 45, and I doubt it's comparable to the Kareen/HP - but it shoots reliably and when desired; it's comfortable. I dunno if I should plan to sell it off or keep it for.. emergencies.

Last edited by longarm; 05-20-2020 at 06:03 PM.
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