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  #1  
Old 09-16-2018, 09:12 AM
rich56 rich56 is offline
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45 ACP or 10mm for pistol games?

I'm looking to buy a 1911 Long Slide (manufacture undetermined) in the future. I'm thinking either 10MM or 45 (I have a Colt series 70, 45). My shooting will be primarily bullseye then maybe some steel plate and bowling pin matches. I do hand load. With handloaded 135-155 grain 10mm and 175gn 45 acp which caliber will have less recoil for bullseye? I do understand for the plate and pin matches I will need high power loads. Any are comments welcome.
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2018, 09:17 AM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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Easy.

45 ACP.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2018, 09:37 AM
waktasz waktasz is offline
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You definitely don't need high powered loads for steel matches
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2018, 07:26 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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A lighter weight bullet will naturally yield less recoil with equal propellant hand loadings.

Yours is a question where the theoretical answer might differ from most practical considerations.

E.g., extremely light -- as in unusual -- 10mm rounds fired from a 6" longslide 1911 design might present unexpected reliability challenges. You would be venturing into a rarely, if ever, explored realm of gun/ammo matching.

Keep in mind that the brass case of the 10mm cartridge is longer than the brass case of the 45acp. With extremely light handloads, light springs, and a longslide, I wouldn't want to guarantee reliable ejection. (I'm not saying it cannot work; I'm only suggesting that there's no guarantee).

I love my 10mm chambered Wilson Combat Hunter. But I use it for wilderness protection and the 10mm loads I use are heavy hitters ... and thus not light recoil.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2018, 08:36 PM
1MoreFord 1MoreFord is offline
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.45ACP and, IMO, you don't want a long slide. Less recoil yes, but much more muzzle flip, and weight to start and stop off and on target. My sweet spot for .45 ammo is the 200gr SWC. IMO 185's have too much straight back recoil and 230gr muzzle flips too much.
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:26 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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1911 Long slide.....

For Bullseye shooting, a long slide will not help as it did before the age of optical sights. In fact, it may be a slight disadvantage when shooting rapid fire when sight tracking with less muzzle flip is important....

I would purchase a good quality 5" 1911 and use some type of optical red dot scope, or red dot slide mounted optic. Some of the best deals are found when a Bullseye shooter is getting out of the sport and sells his expensive custom gun......

However, optics are not allowed in the CMP or "hardball matches." So it might be best to have two separate guns....one with optics and one for service style matches if you plan to get distinguished.
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:14 AM
RDF3 RDF3 is offline
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45acp
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:45 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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.45acp or 10mm for pistol games

The .45acp round is great for pistol games, and is required when shooting NRA Bullseye 2700 matches. When I shot Bullseye, I only used two guns: a High Standard Victor .22, and a Clark Accurized 1911 .45 that could also be used in the service matches.


The 10mm, using full power loads, is an excellent cartridge and pistol for hunting.....it would also be a good choice for handgun metallic silhouette shooting. I have not seen any shooters use the 10mm in any type of action shooting games in my area. The most predominant caliber I see used in action pistol shooting games is the 9mm cartridge.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:14 AM
rich56 rich56 is offline
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45ACP and bullet weights

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MoreFord View Post
.45ACP and, IMO, you don't want a long slide. Less recoil yes, but much more muzzle flip, and weight to start and stop off and on target. My sweet spot for .45 ammo is the 200gr SWC. IMO 185's have too much straight back recoil and 230gr muzzle flips too much.
I have bullets 175 to 225gn to reload. I will explore the difference in recoil of the rounds. It sounds like 45 is for me. When i buy a new 45, if I need more power say for hunting, a 45 Super conversion is easily done. Don't think thats happening anyway.
Reason I'm buying new beside the long slide is my Colt series 70 is a nickle plated inheritance that I dont want to modify more than it is. I think it needs the ejection port lowered and I'm not doing it. I will try new and different recoil springs but its time for a new 45.
Thanks for opinions guys
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:25 AM
Geologist Geologist is online now
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This is an interesting article on bullet weight and recoil:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloadi...ht-gives-edge/
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:50 AM
liggett liggett is offline
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If you think you may be interested in action games, 5". That's the max in USPSA or IDPA, and .45.
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2018, 10:31 AM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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You would have to detune the 10mm to much to make it anything but a game gun. It would only be good for light loads. Not so with a .45.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2018, 07:36 AM
Igloodude Igloodude is offline
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I originally started shooting Bullseye, and recently have shot a dozen USPSA matches, and a couple Steel Challenge and bowling pin shoots.

An accurate iron-sight 5" .45ACP 1911 with a 4-lb trigger will have you competitive (to intermediate classifications) in every one of these (other than a .22 for the rimfire Bullseye, and heck you could get a .22 upper for your 1911), and even the Bullseye CMP competitions if you've left it mil-spec, with probably only some light-to-heavy-load tuning.

Bullseye: 200gr SWC lightly loaded to whatever groups optimally
CMP: factory hardball ammo
USPSA: 200gr SWC or 230gr RN loaded to just above major powerfactor
Steel Challenge: lightest bullet with lightest load that still groups decently
Bowling pin: heaviest bullet with heaviest load that still groups well

With a 10mm 1911, you're out of half the Bullseye (centerfire yes, .45 no), out of CMP, have a bigger struggle loading lighter for Steel Challenge (and possibly Bullseye CF), are good for USPSA, and are better off than the .45 for bowling pin.

As far as I know, a 1911 for IDPA is fundamentally the same as for USPSA.
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  #14  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:14 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Using a 1911 in IDPA.....

A singles stack 1911 .45acp gun may be used in the Custom Defensive Pistol division which requires the use of the .45acp cartridge. However, a person may use any style firearm using the .45 acp round, but may only load the gun to 8+1 rounds......I have used a Para Ordnance high cap .45 and downloaded the mags to the max division capacity of 8+1 to start, and all other mags holding only 8 rounds when shooting in the CDP division.

A 1911 .45 could be used in the ESP gun division, but it is a slight disadvantage to start with 8+1 rounds and may require more reloads, when most ESP guns start with 10+1 rounds in a gun. A 1911 9mm for ESP would be a better option, and can start with 10+1 rounds.


When I first started shooting IDPA, I used a Para Ordnance .45 in the ESP division and started with 10 +1 rounds. I used a 200 gr. H&G # 68 style lead bullet with 3.8 gr. of Bullseye powder which worked fine. I did not like the near square shaped mags of the Para Ordnance, since it was slightly more difficult to conduct fast reloads compared to using an STI 2011 gun that uses tapered mags. I eventually built an STI 2011 with a Kart 9mm barrel and have been shooting this gun in the ESP division for many years. The 9mm cartridge is one of the least expensive center fire rounds to purchase or even to reload......and I shoot a high volume of ammo!
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2018, 07:41 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Please attend whatever matches are being held in your area and see what is being shot.
Read the rules.
A longslide .45 will not be allowed in regulation IDPA.
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  #16  
Old 09-23-2018, 08:01 AM
BillTK7 BillTK7 is offline
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45 for targeting and 10mm for my Hunting, always been my rule.
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  #17  
Old 10-08-2018, 03:16 PM
Joe40 Joe40 is offline
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45 or 10

I think 45 ACP would be the way to go. Cost of ammo, components if you reload.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:52 PM
labuyo labuyo is offline
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9mm.

Get a 10mm then get a conversion for 9mm.
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:12 AM
jcc7x7 jcc7x7 is offline
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I love the 10mm
BUT
I hate thinking about finding my brass on the ground after I shoot!
45 I still look for some of it.
But the two clubs I shoot at both always have a bunch of 1 fired 45 brass in the barrel.
Not so with 10mm.
So my suggestion is 45acp
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2019, 07:31 PM
Frankallen Frankallen is offline
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Trust Me! 45acp
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:18 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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My .45 ACP steel plate load was a 200 gr RNFP by Precision Bullets (1.19" OAL) over either 5.0 gr of 231 or 4.0 gr of Titegroup for a chrono'd 730 fps....(the TG-based loads burned MUCH cleaner, where even 500 rounds thru the pistol left it MUCH cleaner than the light 231 loads, which although functioned fine, were quite sooty w/dirty brass)

(I used 12 lb recoil springs in My Para P14, although it would function fine with a standard 16 lb recoil spring, just with lighter ejection and brass clustered 6" to the right instead of 2-3 feet)

The .45 ACP with light loads is an enjoyable thing of beauty to shoot!

Last edited by MSgt Dotson; 06-01-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:15 PM
yeti yeti is offline
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10mm is fantastic, but not for your stated purposes. A full size govt chambered in 9mm deserves serious consideration for the uses you listed, but since that wasn't one of your choices I say 45.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:17 PM
GunBugBit GunBugBit is offline
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I shot mostly .45 ACP in USPSA, Steel Challenge and club “USPSA Lite” practice matches for four years. I ended up with a load that is about 135 power factor, not too far from most 9mm commercial loads.

It was great!

I’m just getting into competing with 9mm 1911s. One advantage is I’m slinging less lead downrange. Reloading 9mm is slightly cheaper. I don’t feel weird shooting minor power factor with 9mm.

10mm. Hmmm, you could make it work I’m sure. But you’ll be off the beaten path.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2019, 08:27 AM
Thumper88 Thumper88 is offline
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.45 acp and I agree with some others that a 5” may be a better choice for your needs than a long slide.
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:02 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich56 View Post
I'm looking to buy a 1911 Long Slide (manufacture undetermined) in the future. I'm thinking either 10MM or 45 (I have a Colt series 70, 45). My shooting will be primarily bullseye then maybe some steel plate and bowling pin matches. I do hand load. With handloaded 135-155 grain 10mm and 175gn 45 acp which caliber will have less recoil for bullseye? I do understand for the plate and pin matches I will need high power loads. Any are comments welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
For Bullseye shooting, a long slide will not help as it did before the age of optical sights. In fact, it may be a slight disadvantage when shooting rapid fire when sight tracking with less muzzle flip is important....I would purchase a good quality 5" 1911 and use some type of optical red dot scope, or red dot slide mounted optic. Some of the best deals are found when a Bullseye shooter is getting out of the sport and sells his expensive custom gun...... However, optics are not allowed in the CMP or "hardball matches." So it might be best to have two separate guns....one with optics and one for service style matches if you plan to get distinguished.
Rwehavinfunyet is spot on. Avoid the long slide and 10mm. A 5Ē 45 ACP 1911 is all you need. The Range Officer is a great start. There have been two sold on the Bullseye forum this week and they come up frequently, often lightly accurized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igloodude View Post
I originally started shooting Bullseye, and recently have shot a dozen USPSA matches, and a couple Steel Challenge and bowling pin shoots.
Bullseye: 200gr SWC lightly loaded to whatever groups optimally
CMP: factory hardball ammo
With a 10mm 1911, you're out of half the Bullseye (centerfire yes, .45 no), out of CMP, have a bigger struggle loading lighter for Steel Challenge (and possibly Bullseye CF), are good for USPSA, and are better off than the .45 for bowling pin.
Great information, but a few things to clarify. Factory/issued ammunition hasnít been required for CMP for many, many years and hardball was dropped roughly 4 years ago with the 2015 rule book modification (if I recall correctly). Also, there is a sizable population that use 185gr Zero/Nosler/Magnus JHPs at 50 yds and lead at 25 yds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
A lighter weight bullet will naturally yield less recoil with equal propellant hand loadings. Yours is a question where the theoretical answer might differ from most practical considerations. E.g., extremely light -- as in unusual -- 10mm rounds fired from a 6" longslide 1911 design might present unexpected reliability challenges. You would be venturing into a rarely, if ever, explored realm of gun/ammo matching.
For 45 ACP you can use 185 LSWCHP, Iím able to get away with 4.0 gr BE at 50 yds and 3.2gr of BE at 25 on the short line. Recoil is pretty minimal. Regardless, Bullseye is largely about ammo/gun pairing, which is why we use Ransom/HEG rests, barrel fixtures, etc. that action shooters donít usually bother with because we're working at 50 yards where ammunition/firearm pairing issues may/often become evident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunBugBit View Post
I ended up with a load that is about 135 power factor, not too far from most 9mm commercial loads. It was great!

Iím just getting into competing with 9mm 1911s. One advantage is Iím slinging less lead downrange. Reloading 9mm is slightly cheaper. I donít feel weird shooting minor power factor with 9mm.
To hold the X-Ring at 50 yards, 9mm gets pretty spicy. You'll generally have more recoil than light loads using 185gr LSWCHP with BE or VVN310 for NRA matches in Bullseye. On the short line, many of us download 45 ACP LSWCs, and the recoil is well below what the folks using 115/124 gr XTP/HAPs are having to deal with IMO. For CMP EIC matches, that doesn't always hold true as everyone is shooting jacketed ammunition. The video is a little old, as it pre-dates the rule change in 2015, but at about the 1/2 way point Steve Huff will talk about 9mm vs 45 ACP for CMP EIC matches. 3:54 is the point you can skip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHff...&index=32&t=0s

Reloading 9mm for Bullseye is typically not cheaper than 45 APC from a precision pistol perspective. You'll typically be using only one powder, which is Power Pistol, vice a wide variety of acceptable powders for 45 ACP (VVN310, Clays, Bullseye, Titegroup, WST, 700X) that can be found on sale at some point, and the 9mm load requires more powder than 45 ACP for 50 yard accuracy. I've only found one primer in 9mm that holds the X-Ring, the expensive and terrific Federal Gold Medal Match SPPs, vice 45 ACP that I've had acceptable results from Winchester, Federal and Wolf, and the ability to use standard or magnum primers. As far as cases, Starline Brass, doesn't last as long as 45 ACP in 9mm due to the relatively hot 9mm loads, and costs the same per 1,000 from starline. The only bullets that are reliable X-Ring holders at 50 yards are the spectacular Hornady XTP/HAP 115/124 gr. You can get significantly cheaper LSWCs from Zero/Magnu/Penn/etc. that will usually hold the X-Ring and/or terrific Zero 185 gr JHPs for CMP EIC. Different game, and requirements. 9mm is also a tapered case, which can present some challenges. I'm able to save military brass by running it through a Lee Bulge Buster, but not possible with 9mm due to the dimensions. Understood there are very expensive roll sizers that can do this, but again, another cost increase for 9mm. There is also only one reliable factory match option for 9mm, which is Atlanta Arms, vice several for 45 ACP in case a shooter doesn't reload.

Add in that you will have to purchase a 45 pistol to shoot the full match and 9mm becomes an extra round to load and the cost of an extra firearm.
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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 06-12-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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