Gun Transfer - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-07-2019, 08:55 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 839
Gun Transfer

I was reading the thread on FFL transfer and it brought to mind a problem that a relative is going to have.

They want to apply for a permit unfortunately in NY so they can take position of a family heirloom ( an old handgun ) that their parents no longer want to have in their house. Here is the problem: The parents do not actually "legally" own the gun so how can they transfer the gun to their sibling?

Now they have relatives in SC (me), TN, and VT so they could take a chance and travel there with the handgun stashed in the minvan but besides being illegal if they got in an accident and the handgun discovered would this be worth it? No! Once in a free state we could just send it to a NY FFL once they got their permit.

I can think of no really good and legal options. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:06 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,268
Frankly....you need to talk to an attorney in New York who is familiar with that states laws and procedures.

Any advice you get from this forum, other than the above, might get you into trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-07-2019, 10:17 AM
ejr10mm ejr10mm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 3,089
We run into this at work. We will hold it in property for safe keeping for people until they get a permit.
__________________
Colt AR-15 LEO armorer
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 06-07-2019, 01:13 PM
Viper_29 Viper_29 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejr10mm View Post
We run into this at work. We will hold it in property for safe keeping for people until they get a permit.
How likely is that and what happens when it's denied?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-07-2019, 08:13 PM
Deyomatic Deyomatic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 896
If it's getting transferred into NY anyway, why can't the parents just transfer it to one of you guys the free states first? I guess I don't understand how they con't legally own it, or how anyone would know.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-08-2019, 08:34 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 839
The handgun is old. Long before all the rules. So the parents never had a permit or any paperwork for it. So it is a little late to try to somehow "sell" it to their daughter when she gets a permit. They can not all of a sudden have a handgun in NY no matter how innocent it is.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-08-2019, 10:12 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 137
NY is stupid and as an FFL who did transfers, NY was one state I would not ever put a firearm into my bound book. It was not worth it to open myself up to anything legal and then have to fight it in court. What I am saying is, you walk into my shop as a SC resident wanting me to transfer a firearm to NY FFL, and its a handgun to NY FFL, sorry but nope. I am sure there are those who would.

Seeking legal advise is your best option dealing with NY but knowing what I know, sound legal advice may not help.

I know of a few and heard of many who drove the corridor along the east coast that got into some serious legal issues with ammo, firearms and even spent brass in their car just transition through. NJ is notorious for checking out of states plates and curtesy stops by LE; following too close, lane change, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:11 AM
RPB1953 RPB1953 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 81
Judging by some of the comments, there's a lot of fear in doing something that is perfectly innocent for fear of what big brother might do to you. Screw that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:24 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 137
Innocent and within Amendment II is different than NY and NJ. At the advice of legal counsel, do not put firearms in your bound book. Illinois and California also but less threat from legal action. I took that advice.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-09-2019, 08:30 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 839
Icecream: What I am saying about a transfer although DANGEROUS if they could somehow get the gun to SC where private sales are legal there is no reason that I could not walk into my local gun store with the handgun under the assumption it was mine and send it to a FFL in NY. All above board. There is no need to prove how I own the gun in SC or TN or VT once the gun is there. However, my advise to them is you are taking a big chance driving with a handgun you have no paperwork for even though you have NY plates so not subject to the scrutiny that say southern plates might be. But there is always a chance of an accident in NY or NJ then you are cooked.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-09-2019, 08:50 AM
L.E. L.E. is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NW Orygun
Age: 62
Posts: 7,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
Icecream: What I am saying about a transfer although DANGEROUS if they could somehow get the gun to SC where private sales are legal there is no reason that I could not walk into my local gun store with the handgun under the assumption it was mine and send it to a FFL in NY. All above board. There is no need to prove how I own the gun in SC or TN or VT once the gun is there. However, my advise to them is you are taking a big chance driving with a handgun you have no paperwork for even though you have NY plates so not subject to the scrutiny that say southern plates might be. But there is always a chance of an accident in NY or NJ then you are cooked.
Legality aside, I'd be reasonably confident that I could drive my car a few hundred miles without getting pulled over. I also know what my answer would be to the question "Mind if I look around in your vehicle?"

That being said, hopefully you can come up with a better solution.

L.
__________________
"Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-09-2019, 10:56 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 137
I understand but it is against Federal Law to transfer possession of a handgun interstate; a resident from one state cannot transfer possession to a resident of another state, it must go FFL to FFL, that is federal law. Would they know? Nope and being its old as you say, the chain of commerce could (should) not be traced by NICS. FFL must retain 4473 for 20 years. Walking into a FFL in SC, I want to transfer a handgun to this FFL in NY, you have to know the FFL, SC FFL runs the NY FFL through the NICS EZ Check system to ensure its a valid FFL, SC FFL contacts the NY FFL for their number to be placed into SC bound book, you give them the name of whom will be taking possession in NY, you give them your DL, they log it into their bound book, you pay a fee and shipping, its off to NY FFL. But I would inquire to SC FFL if they will transfer a handgun to NY. I cant speak to that but I would not place NY firearm in my books. Once it arrives at NY FFL, then I cant say.

Being NY plates driving down the corridor I doubt there would be an issue unless in an accident. Its up to all of you to decide. My advice has no legal merit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
Icecream: What I am saying about a transfer although DANGEROUS if they could somehow get the gun to SC where private sales are legal there is no reason that I could not walk into my local gun store with the handgun under the assumption it was mine and send it to a FFL in NY. All above board. There is no need to prove how I own the gun in SC or TN or VT once the gun is there. However, my advise to them is you are taking a big chance driving with a handgun you have no paperwork for even though you have NY plates so not subject to the scrutiny that say southern plates might be. But there is always a chance of an accident in NY or NJ then you are cooked.

Last edited by Icecream; 06-09-2019 at 11:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:19 AM
flechero flechero is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
The handgun is old. Long before all the rules. So the parents never had a permit or any paperwork for it.

No one knows where it originated or where it has been. My guess would be that it has been in SC the whole time.



I don't know anyone who's car has been searched because of an accident. Is this a new trend?
__________________
-flechero

Last edited by flechero; 06-09-2019 at 11:20 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:37 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 137
NICS knows where it was manufactured depending just how old it is, chain of commerce can trace it from the date is was manufactured to when it was transferred by FFL to a person for 20 years through 4473 on file. From there, who knows.

You get hit and gun case slides out from concealment and you dont notice it, hit from behind, trunk / hatch is damaged and open, LE sees a gun case. Probable no but possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
No one knows where it originated or where it has been. My guess would be that it has been in SC the whole time.



I don't know anyone who's car has been searched because of an accident. Is this a new trend?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-09-2019, 06:58 PM
Deyomatic Deyomatic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 896
It seems like VT is the way to go. How many miles are you talking? If we're talking about a family heirloom (from post 1) then it sounds like a lot more than 20 years to me.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-09-2019, 07:14 PM
Kevin Rohrer's Avatar
Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Medina, Ohio USA
Posts: 2,132
This is not the Soviet Union. Take it out of state, give to a relative who can legally own one, whatever. It is no one's business outside the Soviet Republic of NYC.
__________________
Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA-Life, and the American Legion.

Don't trust Cavery Grips/American Gripz. He WILL rip you off.
All my 1911s are in .45acp. Why? Because no one makes one in .46cal.--Me
The 9mm is a SD cartridge fit only for women and Europeans--Me
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:03 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 839
Thanks for all the thoughts. I am not concerned for stupid searches. I am concerned for the highly unlikely accident and the car has to be towed and the handgun discovered. Is it all worth it to keep a heirloom in the family? One that will never be fired.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:34 AM
flechero flechero is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecream View Post
NICS knows where it was manufactured depending just how old it is, chain of commerce can trace it from the date is was manufactured to when it was transferred by FFL to a person for 20 years through 4473 on file. From there, who knows.

You get hit and gun case slides out from concealment and you dont notice it, hit from behind, trunk / hatch is damaged and open, LE sees a gun case. Probable no but possible.
I'm not advocating he break the law, just saying that in this hypothetical, I'd take slightly more care than sliding it under a seat, unsecured. And use a little more imagination than a gun case. ...lol
__________________
-flechero
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:18 AM
Austin_TX Austin_TX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
I'm not advocating he break the law, just saying that in this hypothetical, I'd take slightly more care than sliding it under a seat, unsecured. And use a little more imagination than a gun case. ...lol
Yeah, in this purely hypothetical scenario, if I had determined to take the risk of spiriting the gun out of state, I think my wife and I would be driving to visit my relatives in VT with a couple of suitcases packed with a week's worth of clothes, toiletries, etc. Just a regular older couple driving a few hours to visit family.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:03 PM
Kevin Rohrer's Avatar
Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Medina, Ohio USA
Posts: 2,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
Thanks for all the thoughts. I am not concerned for stupid searches. I am concerned for the highly unlikely accident and the car has to be towed and the handgun discovered. Is it all worth it to keep a heirloom in the family? One that will never be fired.
Absolutely not. Tell me where you live and I will come dispose of that evil instrument of planetary destruction.
__________________
Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA-Life, and the American Legion.

Don't trust Cavery Grips/American Gripz. He WILL rip you off.
All my 1911s are in .45acp. Why? Because no one makes one in .46cal.--Me
The 9mm is a SD cartridge fit only for women and Europeans--Me
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:29 PM
azguy1911 azguy1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Scottsdale
Age: 54
Posts: 1,814
Seriously, put it in a suit case and drive to NY. This is still the United States, nobody is gong to go through your luggage even if you are speeding or something.

And, all to often NYC laws are confused with NY state laws. Many people in upstate NY have guns and it's not an issue and nothing like NYC
__________________
I'm a 1911 addict -- 9mm's: Benchmark Precision bobtail, Volkmann Combat Carry, Ed Brown Kobra Carry, WC Sentinel Compact, WC ULCC, WC Bobtail Professional, WC EDC X9S, NH T4, NH Counselor, Staccato C and a G43 -- 38 Super's: GI Government, WC Professional, WC Stealth, WC CQB Elite, DW CBOB, WC Sentinel Compact and a mid 70's Colt Commander (for a build, off to NH already)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:21 AM
Thumper88 Thumper88 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 51
I had no idea that NY was such a totalitarian state when it came to firearms. I knew it was bad but it’s insane that it’s this hard for a family member to take possession of a family heirloom. Is it old enough to be transferred through a C&R license?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:43 AM
ohio ohio is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 960
Interesting conversation. I was just in Indiana visiting my daughter who I gave my HK P30 to a few years ago. I was going to bring the HK back to Ohio to shoot, clean up, and return to her on my next visit back to Indiana. When I gave it to her I sent it FFL to FFL to make it a legal transfer.

I started checking the laws and, as far as I could determine, I could not “legally” put the HK in my car, drive back to Ohio with it without being in violation of the law. Seems you cannot “lend” a firearm to anyone if it’s going to another state. To be “legal” it would have had to go FFL to FFL.

I know the likelihood of getting caught was minimal, but the crap you have to go through to be “legal” is just stupid.

Good luck getting your family’s handgun transferred.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-12-2019, 08:40 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 839
azguy1911: You are missing the point. The people possessing the gun are currently in NY. It is an old gun with no paperwork and they do NOT have a permit. Their daughter wants to get a permit (in NY) and legally take ownership of the gun. However, the process in NY for "buying" a gun makes it impossible to take possession of this gun that for intents does not exist. Purchasing a gun in NY even with a permit is not a one step process.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved