Merits of Bushing vs Bull Barrel on a Professional/Commander Model - Page 2 - 1911Forum
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View Poll Results: Bull barrel or bushing on a Professional Model
Bull Barrel 23 43.40%
Bushing 23 43.40%
I like pie (no opinion/who cares?) 7 13.21%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 03-23-2019, 05:15 PM
Lab4Us Lab4Us is offline
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Technically, I can disassemble either style very quickly. It’ s the reassembly of the non-bushing style that drives me nuts about half the time. The other half, the slide stop pops right in while I’m trying to contort my left hand to hold the slide in place.

Last edited by Lab4Us; 03-24-2019 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Spelling and/or grammar
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  #27  
Old 03-23-2019, 06:00 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lab4Us View Post
Technically, I can disassemble either style very quickly. Ití s the reassembly of the non-bushing style that drives me nuts about have the time. The other half, the slide stop pops right in while Iím trying to contort my left hand to hold the slide in place.
Use your right hand to hold the slide in place, and it will be easy for your left hand to pop the slide stop in place. I use the power of both hands to position the slide, then hold in place with right hand, leaving left hand free to slip the slide stop pin into place.
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  #28  
Old 03-23-2019, 06:01 PM
panzerr panzerr is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Bushings are harder to take apart and more likely to be damaged and worn out by incorrect handling, they also are less reliable and have more recoil. I always perfer a bull barrel when legal for competition due to the speed advantage and also for reliability.
Bushings more difficult to take apart? it looks easier to me. On my Bull barrel guns I had to hold the slide back in order to push out the slide stop and that was always kind of a pain in the ass.

What do you mean by incorrect handling?
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  #29  
Old 03-23-2019, 06:53 PM
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Both types seem to me to be equally as easy to disassemble but in different ways.
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  #30  
Old 03-23-2019, 07:31 PM
JB6464 JB6464 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Bushings are harder to take apart and more likely to be damaged and worn out by incorrect handling, they also are less reliable and have more recoil.
What , less reliable ?
With all the 1911's that's been built and survived multiple World Wars and Conflicts for over the last 100+ years , I would say that the 1911 bushing design has been pretty damn reliable and has proven itself without a doubt .

Last edited by JB6464; 03-23-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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  #31  
Old 03-23-2019, 07:56 PM
JimF4M1s JimF4M1s is offline
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Personally prefer the bushing with reverse crown but I have both. The bull barrel might look a bit cleaner. After a few go rounds, take down is nothing.
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  #32  
Old 03-23-2019, 08:11 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Just curious.

I might be the odd thinker here (wouldn't be a first time), but my preference is based on barrel length and sometimes caliber (e.g., 10mm power or greater).

Anyone else have a preference that goes one way for compact designs (and more potent chamberings), but then goes the other way for 5" barrels and traditional chamberings?
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  #33  
Old 03-23-2019, 08:27 PM
drail drail is offline
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A bull barrel gun will unlock slightly slower and it feels slightly different from a stock bushing barrel. The recoil energy is still there but it is spread out over a longer period of time so it "feels" softer. I prefer bull barrels. The added weight helps keep the muzzle down a tiny bit.

Last edited by drail; 03-23-2019 at 08:29 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-23-2019, 08:33 PM
JB6464 JB6464 is offline
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Although I have zero issues and reliability with my bull barrel setup on my 45acp Colt Defender , it is still a pain in the a** to assemble and disassemble compared to my bushing 1911's .
I only deal with it because I need a compact gun for a backup and I prefer an auto over a revolver .
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  #35  
Old 03-23-2019, 08:53 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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On a really short-barreled 45acp 1911, I would think that a recoil spring retaining plug (if part of the gun's design) would be under so much pressure (and require similar pressure to re-assemble), that it might be as big of a disassembly/re-assembly challenge as a similar gun with a bull barrel.

Never personally attempted such a comparison (never handled such a gun), but I have visions of a recoil spring retaining plug shooting across the room at considerable velocity. But then again, my thumb strength is no greater than average; so that may explain this "apocalyptic vision". (Long ago, I remember my cat's reaction when a retaining plug went flying across the room ... the cat didn't want to re-enter that room afterwards).

I'd also think (?) that on such a short barreled gun, the retaining plug would need to be open-ended to allow for a sufficiently long guide rod. Not certain about this; just trying to logically think things through...with glass of wine in hand, not a 1911.
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  #36  
Old 03-23-2019, 10:08 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by panzerr View Post
Bushings more difficult to take apart? it looks easier to me. On my Bull barrel guns I had to hold the slide back in order to push out the slide stop and that was always kind of a pain in the ass.

What do you mean by incorrect handling?
Bushing dance vs just taking it apart, Iíll link the video again.

Incorrect like rotating the bushing around the barrel while still in full battery. That will wear on the fit a lot when dirty, you want to pull the side back slightly and even then you are still rotating the bushing in the slide every time and wearing it there. ALL of this is avoided with a bull barrel.

https://youtu.be/CdvXsUXF-gI

Last edited by Striker2237; 03-23-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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  #37  
Old 03-23-2019, 10:09 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB6464 View Post
What , less reliable ?
With all the 1911's that's been built and survived multiple World Wars and Conflicts for over the last 100+ years , I would say that the 1911 bushing design has been pretty damn reliable and has proven itself without a doubt .
Yes. A bull barrel is stronger, faster, simpler, more expensive and more reliable. Period. Bushings are fine but not as good and flat out much harder to do at all once you drop below 4.25 inch slides.

Last edited by Striker2237; 03-23-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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  #38  
Old 03-23-2019, 10:34 PM
JB6464 JB6464 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Yes. A bull barrel is stronger, faster, simpler, more expensive and more reliable. Period. Bushings are fine but not as good and flat out much harder to do at all once you drop below 4.25 inch slides.
They may be stronger and with the added barrel weight it may help keep the recoil down but I don't buy the more reliable part at all .
I understand the reason for bull barrels with 1911's shorter than the Commander (4.25") length but in a Commander or Govt series I have never seen a reliability issue with a bushing unless it's User Error or has been modified in some way by an inexperienced gunsmith .
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  #39  
Old 03-23-2019, 10:40 PM
Ytown1911 Ytown1911 is offline
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Back to the OP - if you want a WC in 4”, it will be a bull or flanged barrel (4.1”). If you want a bushing barrel it will be 4.25”. Find which one you like best by holding it, manipulating it, etc if possible (may not be a WC depending on availability but you will still get an idea about balance and feel). Then - order whichever one you want. Maybe it’s pretty. Maybe it’s in stock. Maybe it is any one of a hundred reasons. Make sure you LIKE IT.

Bushing or bull doesn’t really matter. Have meaningful practices with it using time-tested drills and enjoy the hell out of it. It won’t fail you. If it does, they’ll repair it for free. Quickly.

Bushings, bull barrels, slide length, recoil mitigation, all that jazz people posted is fine but doesn’t mean a hill of beans if you #1) don’t like the gun but you ordered one based on what someone else posted/thought and #2) you don’t have meaningful and frequent practice with it.

You will give yourself the greatest advantage not in worrying about its configuration, but in focusing on your PRACTICES. This is true with ANY gun you possess.

Now order and hit the range
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  #40  
Old 03-24-2019, 06:36 AM
mil spec mil spec is offline
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I have really enjoyed this thread since I am currently planning a Wilson compact or a commander build. Just when I think you know everything about 1911's, I learn more. Lots of great information.
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  #41  
Old 03-24-2019, 07:14 AM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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I have a .35" officers LW model with a bull looking barrel and a thin bushing. It does not miss a beat ever. Feeds round nose Hollow point and Semi Wad Cutters. Hot or medium. I also have a 4" Springfield Champion 9mm with a bull barrel. Same thing feeds anything and does not miss a beat.

They both work fine. I dont understand the problems with field strip of any 1911.

Enjooy your new gun.

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  #42  
Old 03-24-2019, 09:00 AM
panzerr panzerr is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Bushing dance vs just taking it apart, Iíll link the video again.

Incorrect like rotating the bushing around the barrel while still in full battery. That will wear on the fit a lot when dirty, you want to pull the side back slightly and even then you are still rotating the bushing in the slide every time and wearing it there. ALL of this is avoided with a bull barrel.

https://youtu.be/CdvXsUXF-gI
Got it, thanks for that.

All else being equal I think the bushing barrels looks cooler, but I go for functionality over cool factor. It seems like people are saying that in a commander size 1911 that bull barrels may be more reliable. If that is truly the case then that's an easy decision.
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  #43  
Old 03-24-2019, 10:28 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Just my opinion: I'd make a clear distinction between a 4.25" barrel Commander and a 4" compact (or something still shorter). I wouldn't lump them together.

That 0.25" difference is likely a sort of boundary line. And I think this is mostly-- just mostly, not always -- reflected in manufacturer's offerings.
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  #44  
Old 03-24-2019, 10:33 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Bushing dance vs just taking it apart, I’ll link the video again.

Incorrect like rotating the bushing around the barrel while still in full battery. That will wear on the fit a lot when dirty, you want to pull the side back slightly and even then you are still rotating the bushing in the slide every time and wearing it there. ALL of this is avoided with a bull barrel.

https://youtu.be/CdvXsUXF-gI
+1911

And with FLGR (and barrel bushing), even the technique of pulling the slide back just a little hits a snag.

Long ago, this was discussed with the added help of WCR's input. I'm pretty sure I recall him indicating that Wilson 1911s were not fitted so tightly for this to be a concern. I hope -- that's hope -- that's the case. And I suspect it applies only if everything is perfectly clean.

But exactly as you point out, if the barrel is not squeaky clean or on a more tightly fitted 1911 (think LB for example), it is unquestionably a real concern. These things can be worked around, but only if the individual is knowledgeable of the subject... a strong pair of hands also helps.

Also, exactly as you point out, no such concerns with a bull barrel.
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  #45  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:26 AM
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Wilson’s bushings are not fit that tight and can be easily removed without the use of a bushing wrench (at least the ones that I have tried). With that you will not wear it out by taking it apart while fully in battery. My PII is over 20,000 rounds and the bushing is still so tight that it is hard to take off and put back on. A gun like this you may cause some minor wear with removing the bushing while fully in battery but I really doubt that you could wear it to the point of losing accuracy. It may not twist but it runs in and out of battery on every shot and they really don’t wear out under normal use, maybe after 50 to 100k rounds but not many guns are shot that much.
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  #46  
Old 03-24-2019, 12:41 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
Wilson’s bushings are not fit that tight and can be easily removed without the use of a bushing wrench (at least the ones that I have tried). With that you will not wear it out by taking it apart while fully in battery. My PII is over 20,000 rounds and the bushing is still so tight that it is hard to take off and put back on. A gun like this you may cause some minor wear with removing the bushing while fully in battery but I really doubt that you could wear it to the point of losing accuracy. It may not twist but it runs in and out of battery on every shot and they really don’t wear out under normal use, maybe after 50 to 100k rounds but not many guns are shot that much.
THANKS for sharing, especially as you've had a lot of shooting experience. +1911.

I think you're probably covering both the fit between the barrel and the bushing and also the less-critical fit between the bushing and the slide in these comments.

Long ago, when WCR indicated -- same as you -- that this was not a concern with Wilson 1911s (specifically Wilson), I felt greatly relieved, as one of my SGs is built with a FLGR.

I still think Striker is correct in regard to a much higher risk existing if there are any particles of dirt, grit (etc.) present. Of course, best to have a clean gun in the first place; but things can still happen, and it's best to have full awareness of these subjects.
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  #47  
Old 03-24-2019, 02:20 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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At this moment, the poll results, separate from the posts, have shifted towards favoring the barrel bushing. (18 to 17).

I really wonder if all of those voting for barrel bushings really do have barrel bushings in a 4" compact in their possession.

I would guess otherwise.

But again, I think the distinction between a compact and a Commander size is significant; that they should not be lumped together for meaningful poll results. Maybe this might explain the votes for the barrel bushings.
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  #48  
Old 03-24-2019, 03:00 PM
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Pretty sure you are correct, Chrys. I’ve never even seen one and why I did not vote.
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  #49  
Old 03-24-2019, 03:53 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
THANKS for sharing, especially as you've had a lot of shooting experience. +1911.

I think you're probably covering both the fit between the barrel and the bushing and also the less-critical fit between the bushing and the slide in these comments.

Long ago, when WCR indicated -- same as you -- that this was not a concern with Wilson 1911s (specifically Wilson), I felt greatly relieved, as one of my SGs is built with a FLGR.

I still think Striker is correct in regard to a much higher risk existing if there are any particles of dirt, grit (etc.) present. Of course, best to have a clean gun in the first place; but things can still happen, and it's best to have full awareness of these subjects.
Respectfully as possible I will add that the bushing to slide fit is also critical since any movement there is just as bad as movement between the bushing and barrel. From my personal experiments with Wilson, NHC and Brown gunís Wilson tends towards a much looser bushing overall for less drag in my theory. This is reflected by my WC 9mm being able to go literal 1000s without lube added and he bushing doesnít start to tighten like it does on NHC guns Iíve used. Brown is interesting, itís very very tight yet it doesnít seem to bind anymore than when totally clean because the fit is so precise no dirt enters at all.

At least on my suppressed one that I have run the heck out of, never complains or gets tight/bound up feeling like others I have shot. Usually itís only bull barrels that I can run to this level without some lube thrown on every 1000 or so.

I am fine with how Wilson does it though since I can freehand 2 inches at 25 with my CQB-E, good enough for me and it stays reliable since itís looser. Not Colt or even Kimber loose mind you, just not brown/NHC orngod forbid bear tight.

Last edited by Striker2237; 03-24-2019 at 03:59 PM.
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  #50  
Old 03-24-2019, 04:40 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Respectfully as possible I will add that the bushing to slide fit is also critical since any movement there is just as bad as movement between the bushing and barrel. From my personal experiments with Wilson, NHC and Brown gun’s Wilson tends towards a much looser bushing overall for less drag in my theory. This is reflected by my WC 9mm being able to go literal 1000s without lube added and he bushing doesn’t start to tighten like it does on NHC guns I’ve used. Brown is interesting, it’s very very tight yet it doesn’t seem to bind anymore than when totally clean because the fit is so precise no dirt enters at all.

At least on my suppressed one that I have run the heck out of, never complains or gets tight/bound up feeling like others I have shot. Usually it’s only bull barrels that I can run to this level without some lube thrown on every 1000 or so.

I am fine with how Wilson does it though since I can freehand 2 inches at 25 with my CQB-E, good enough for me and it stays reliable since it’s looser. Not Colt or even Kimber loose mind you, just not brown/NHC orngod forbid bear tight.
+1911 on all of this my friend.

My thinking of the relative fit priorities was/is based on the barrel-to-bushing fit being a fit between two moving surfaces (and one tilting surface), whereas the bushing-to-slide fit is more static. Whether I'm "right" on this is a question for someone more knowledgeable than myself. Of course, a "bad" fit in either case is ... bad. So definitely, both are important.

For 1911s other than Wilson, I mostly have to learn such fitting/build philosophy and execution details from other's experience ... you, Jim, David (apipe), TRSOtto are among those whose perceptions/opinions I most value. One of these days, I've got to add an EB to my mostly Wilson collection. Of course, there are going to be more Wilson's.. All being planned/envisioned.
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