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  #1  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:31 AM
rick9748 rick9748 is offline
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Disappointed With Armor Tough

App. one year old EDC x9.
Monthly IDPA matches and 100/200 rounds through at range per month. In soft lined quality leather holster.
All high points worn off; Front of barrel and slide, along slide 3 in. or so +'s slide lock and safety.
Have 10 year old , good old CZ 75 #??, many rounds, zero wear.
Wilson $3,00.00 vs CZ $700.00
Wilson page says A T is designed to wear off where movement occurs on weapon.
Sorry, this sounds insane to me.

Reference thread: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=941577

Last edited by Grandpas50AE; 02-12-2019 at 05:21 AM.
  #2  
Old 02-12-2019, 06:24 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Wow, that is a nice find, where did you get a X9 for 300$? I'd take that with no finish at all! ;-)

"But seriously folks", can you post a pic of the gun in question, I think it would help make your point or at least give us something to compare to the many WC's most of us own.
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2019, 06:42 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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My guess is Wilson will stand behind their product and refinish it despite that they say “it’s designed to wear off”....
Post a few pics if possible..
I’m a blue gun guy, but my sons WC in AT doesn’t show any wear, but he’s not using it like you are either.

Last edited by Plantar5; 02-12-2019 at 06:53 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:44 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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To avoid wearing-off in such holster use conditions, one must go to an entirely different type of finish.

Each type of finish brings along its own set of positives and negatives. E.g. a deposited layer of super-hard material will at least fractionally alter the fit of closely fitted parts. Not to mention shipping a built gun to an outside entity that specializes in such finishes. To be balanced, presenting both sides, probably most people who choose to send a 1911 for NP3 (or other specialist applicators) are happy with the results. But it is still an added layer of material (and someone else has disassembled and re-assembled the gun). With AT, the fit established by Wilson's pistolsmiths remains unaltered, and control of all aspects of functionality and fit quality remain under one roof.

AT is a more combat purposed finish, applied after a phosphate bath treatment (similar to military use parkerization), the latter to prevent corrosion; not an aesthetics finish.

If re-applied, most likely you would experience the same wear with the re-application.

Added: As suggested by others (+1911), photos would help people here compare the wear on your gun to their own experiences.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 02-12-2019 at 09:45 AM.
  #5  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:57 AM
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I would also like to see the photos of the OP’s gun. I certainly prefer my blued Wilson’s but the AT on my Wilson’s have held up very well. The AT is also a very corrosion resistant finish.

If we could see a photo we could collectively say if the wear appears “normal” or “excessive”.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:35 AM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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I have realized the Wilson approach to finishing their guns requires a different perspective; one that is growing on me and that I actually think I like. I have always been the "I want the most durable finish known to man on my guns!" kind go guy. But WC has a different approach...

You need to think of WC Armor Tough as a disposable finish. I like the fact that I can send my gun to WC and they can easily and completely remove the current finish and redo it in any one of the colors they offer at any time. This can be done for a pretty reasonable price, a few hundred bucks, and with a pretty quick turn-around too. When refinishing a gun with other finishes, especially a gun as tight as a WC, it is possible for the finish to be too thick and cause reliability problems. Not with Armor tough. It is easy for WC to remove ALL of the finish and put a coat that is the exact same thickness of the original finish on. Think of AT as a finish system that you are buying into when you buy a Wilson.

If you carry your WC daily, figure every 2 to 3 years it will need a refinish if you want to keep it looking new and perfect. You can even change the colors of the frame, slide and controls anytime you want. This concept is growing on me and I would like to see other manufacturers in the 1911 world offer something similar.

Last edited by Harrish; 02-12-2019 at 09:38 AM.
  #7  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:46 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick9748 View Post
App. one year old EDC x9.
Monthly IDPA matches and 100/200 rounds through at range per month. In soft lined quality leather holster.
All high points worn off; Front of barrel and slide, along slide 3 in. or so +'s slide lock and safety.
Have 10 year old , good old CZ 75 #??, many rounds, zero wear.
Wilson $3,00.00 vs CZ $700.00
Wilson page says A T is designed to wear off where movement occurs on weapon.
Sorry, this sounds insane to me.

Reference thread: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=941577
I understand your point, in fact FWIK all the W.C. 1911s that so far I've owned, after a couple of months of range use have always shown some wear marks, especially where the left thumb is brushing against the slide.
Glocks and CZ SP01 don't have that problem but who cares after all, things are supposed to be used not only looked at.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:49 AM
aaronsappl aaronsappl is offline
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My Vickers Elite is my IDPA pistol. It has the AT finish and is 11 months old. Lots of Kydex holster draws, 6000 rds through it. I am shocked how well the AT has held up. Very little wear on the slide. I treat the pistol pretty bad compared to my other Wilson's. The funny thing is, the wear showed up quick but doesn't seem to get worse. Doesn't bother me at all, sorta like battle scars to me. To me , holster wear looks better on a blued gun than a painted on finish. If it bothers me after 25,000 to 30,000 rds, I'll send back and have finished again.

Does the EDC X9 fit in the IDPA CCP box?
  #9  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:39 AM
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I suppose one could get a defective finish. If so, I'm sure Wilson will remedy the problem.
The photos are of my WC Classic that has been my EDC since 2012 with 4,500 rounds and a half dozen IDPA shoots. The only wear I have is at the muzzle as shown and of course some brass kisses. Both photos are very recent.
Based on my experience, I feel the AT has done very well!
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Last edited by DouglasS; 02-12-2019 at 10:41 AM.
  #10  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:52 AM
aaronsappl aaronsappl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasS View Post
I suppose one could get a defective finish. If so, I'm sure Wilson will remedy the problem.
The photos are of my WC Classic that has been my EDC since 2012 with 4,500 rounds and a half dozen IDPA shoots. The only wear I have is at the muzzle as shown and of course some brass kisses. Both photos are very recent.
Based on my experience, I feel the AT has done very well!

Nice Classic!
  #11  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:10 PM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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I simply can’t fathom not accepting holster wear, regardless of finish.
  #12  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasS View Post
I suppose one could get a defective finish. If so, I'm sure Wilson will remedy the problem.
The photos are of my WC Classic that has been my EDC since 2012 with 4,500 rounds and a half dozen IDPA shoots. The only wear I have is at the muzzle as shown and of course some brass kisses. Both photos are very recent.
Based on my experience, I feel the AT has done very well!
Just getting broken in and starting to look really nice.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:57 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrish View Post
I have realized the Wilson approach to finishing their guns requires a different perspective; one that is growing on me and that I actually think I like. I have always been the "I want the most durable finish known to man on my guns!" kind go guy. But WC has a different approach...

You need to think of WC Armor Tough as a disposable finish. I like the fact that I can send my gun to WC and they can easily and completely remove the current finish and redo it in any one of the colors they offer at any time. This can be done for a pretty reasonable price, a few hundred bucks, and with a pretty quick turn-around too. When refinishing a gun with other finishes, especially a gun as tight as a WC, it is possible for the finish to be too thick and cause reliability problems. Not with Armor tough. It is easy for WC to remove ALL of the finish and put a coat that is the exact same thickness of the original finish on. Think of AT as a finish system that you are buying into when you buy a Wilson.

If you carry your WC daily, figure every 2 to 3 years it will need a refinish if you want to keep it looking new and perfect. You can even change the colors of the frame, slide and controls anytime you want. This concept is growing on me and I would like to see other manufacturers in the 1911 world offer something similar.
This, AT does extremely well in preventing damage or any form of rust. The drawback is it needs to be refreshed every so often but that allows color changes and other stuff when that is needed.
  #14  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:28 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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Maybe I'm weird, but I just don't care about finish wear.
  #15  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:42 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
Maybe I'm weird, but I just don't care about finish wear.
Rest assured, you have plenty of similar-thinking company.

----

I do understand those who desire a "showpiece", "BBQ", etc., 1911 that's in mint condition; I have one myself. But for a carry gun, I'm not concerned about finish wear, as long as the corrosion protection properties remain intact (as they do with AT). A carry gun isn't likely to stay new looking; that's not its purpose.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:40 PM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
Maybe I'm weird, but I just don't care about finish wear.
You are weird. It has nothing to do with finish wear though
  #17  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:01 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrish View Post
You are weird. It has nothing to do with finish wear though
Hey! I resemble that remark!
  #18  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:25 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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^^^^

You guys are great ...
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:26 PM
sneaky one sneaky one is offline
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When my ULC showed a little wear I sent to Wilson and they redid the slide for $100. Whole gun is $275. I don't like to see wear. We are all different
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:31 PM
JimF4M1s JimF4M1s is offline
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It may show wear, that can be redone. I will say I usually go with stainless. But I'll bet it still shoots like a deam. And in the end that is why I buy a pistol.
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  #21  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:28 PM
samuse samuse is offline
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It's paint. It wears.

A workin' pistol shows wear. I think it looks good.
  #22  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:37 PM
mangeek mangeek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick9748 View Post
A
Have 10 year old , good old CZ 75 #??, many rounds, zero wear.
Wilson $3,00.00 vs CZ $700.00
Wilson page says A T is designed to wear off where movement occurs on weapon.
Sorry, this sounds insane to me.
You mention many rounds through your CZ and zero wear. First, it is not rounds that usually wear a pistol in most areas of the outside finish. It is holster draws, and atmospheric conditions over years as far as I know as well as how it is stored, treated etc...

Can you be more specific about how the CZ has been used over the years and the frequency of that use?

Regarding the comment about Wilson saying AT is designed to wear off where movement occurs on a weapon. I will take your word about design statement, but the fact is, all finishes will wear off more where movement occurs on those surfaces over time I would think.

Is there any difference in how you have used the CZ vs the WC? Regardless of years.

Last edited by mangeek; 02-12-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:05 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by mangeek View Post
You mention many rounds through your CZ and zero wear. First, it is not rounds that usually wear a pistol in most areas of the outside finish. It is holster draws, and atmospheric conditions over years as far as I know as well as how it is stored, treated etc...

Can you be more specific about how the CZ has been used over the years and the frequency of that use?

Regarding the comment about Wilson saying AT is designed to wear off where movement occurs on a weapon. I will take your word about design statement, but the fact is, all finishes will wear off more where movement occurs on those surfaces over time I would think.

Is there any difference in how you have used the CZ vs the WC? Regardless of years.
Well my CZ Shadow and Shadow II have worn their slides bare where the holsters lock in, used for 3-gun and USPSA and not carried much past that. The bare metal will rust if wet vs Wilson AT whose bare sections do not rust even if submerged.
  #24  
Old 02-13-2019, 12:24 AM
Benchrest1 Benchrest1 is offline
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I've never been a fan of the paint and bake type of finish. However honest wear on the finish of a gun is fine by me. Hell some people now pay to have a finish that looks worn.
  #25  
Old 02-13-2019, 12:36 AM
FightinTXAggie FightinTXAggie is offline
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I haven't seen the extent of wear on your Wilson, but I have a couple that show some wear. It doesn't bother me. I bought all of them to use.

Some of my blued guns look a lot worse than my 'baked' guns, although I prefer the way blue guns wear vs. the baked-on finishes. In my experience, the worn areas are resistant to corrosion no matter what the original finish was. This blued Colt has never shown corrosion despite a significant portion having lost its finish long ago.




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