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  #51  
Old 09-07-2018, 02:48 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
The commonly available S&W 500 magnum handgun with a 350 grain (mass) bullet and muzzle (velocity) of 1975 ft./sec. producing 3032 ft./lbs. of muzzle energy (force)
Except energy is NOT "force."

It is the ability to do work.

In this case drive the bullet into the tissue of the target in SD land.

Since KE = 1/2 * m * v^2, m is mass (NOT weight) in whatever system of units you are using.
In the 'conventional' system mass is 'slugs.'
The weight (in pounds) divided by g. The acceleration of gravity.
m = F/a.
Weight is the force of gravity on your body mass.

We could fire a tiny mass at super high velocity and compute a huge energy.
It will not penetrate tissue worth a darn.

In terminal ballistics in tissue around 2,000 ft/s all sorts of secondary effects besides just making a hole start to show up.

At 3,000+ ft/s I can rapidly disassemble the body parts of a groundhog.
Limbs and heads often separate from bodies.
Bodies make a pink mist in the air as the organs and blood are vaporized.

As a paramedic I saw it occasionally in suicides.
Around 10 stories (~120 feet) the human body start to come apart if it hits concrete on the ground.
It is the grossest mess you have ever seen.

There was a skeleton in their at one point.

Bodies are not uniform things though.
The lungs are mostly air.
They have a very rich blood supply though.
Lots of arteries and veins.
But not a lot of liquid to magnify the wound channel.

Livers are a largish semi-rigid structure with plenty of blood and a lot of liquid in the cells.
A high velocity round can easily blow then to pieces.
Slower rounds drill holes.

Most common handgun calibers drill holes.
The velocity is not there to create a wound channel far larger than the projectile like a long gun at its generally higher velocity.

Last edited by brickeyee; 09-07-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  #52  
Old 09-07-2018, 03:16 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Except energy is NOT "force."

It is the ability to do work.

In this case drive the bullet into the tissue of the target in SD land.

Since KE = 1/2 * m * v^2, m is mass (NOT weight) in whatever system of units you are using.
In the 'conventional' system mass is 'slugs.'
The weight (in pounds) divided by g. The acceleration of gravity.
m = F/a.
Weight is the force of gravity on your body mass.

We could fire a tiny mass at super high velocity and compute a huge energy.
It will not penetrate tissue worth a darn.

In terminal ballistics in tissue around 2,000 ft/s all sorts of secondary effects besides just making a hole start to show up...
Thank you for clarifying that for the record. I saw LimaCharlies post but I didn't want to get into discussing the correction of how simple Newtonian physics defines kinetic energy.

Last time I raised this issue, a discussion grew whether momentum or kinetic energy SHOULD be the metric we look at when discussing ballistic terminal effects.
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  #53  
Old 09-07-2018, 03:24 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
This does not mean that everybody that has guns chambered in the rounds that they have been using to good effect for years. They are not just all going to throw away all of their guns and buy new ones.

Besides, while you might prefer to shoot .22 rimfire for informal target shooting, plinking cans if you will. This over shooting .470 Linebaugh for the same purpose. Conversely you might want to shoot the .470 Linebaugh when bear hunting over the .22 rimfire.
Dear god no. Just no. Too much for me, I draw the line at .454 in a wheel gun. Anything more and I'm hurting for a few days and I just know I'm causing nerve damage down the line.....
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  #54  
Old 09-07-2018, 05:12 PM
Combat Diver Combat Diver is offline
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At least we have choices in this country. Remember to vote in November to keep it that way.

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  #55  
Old 09-08-2018, 05:46 AM
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combat auto combat auto is online now
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In pistol, I shoot: 38s, 45, 357m. One can obtain overlapping loads on all of these, but, let me call it, in high-end SD-loads for each caliber, this gives me a choice of (relatively speaking), soft, medium, and hot, shooting days. All these loads can be used for SD, but as a civilian, and based on my SD lifestyle, 45 (in HST trim) makes the most logical sense (for me), and I use it most often for SD by a wide margin vs the other 2...But, having this variety, just adds so much fun to the sport, keeps it interesting, and keeps me excited about training over and over and over again...

I do have one plastic-9mm, I consider it along the lines of a 38s as far as relative recoil more or less (with high-end HP's). Honestly, I probably only purchased it because of all the "hoopla" over 9mm these day, and I was wondering if I was missing something ;-). The ammo is cheaper than 38s for sure.

I had a 44 mag revolver, but sold it, it wasn't worth it at the range shooting full power loads, the potential long term damage to my wrists was too high a price. And after say 30 rounds or so things would get sloppy as far as accuracy. Yep, I could have shot lighter loads, but then why bother with 44M ;-). The 357M in full power is just about the right amount of recoil for me, fast, accurate, and is just so much more fun (for me) to shoot. In my 3" 586L for some decent amount of rounds, and in my Conan-Classic, 2 hour range sessions with mostly full-power HP's are NP at all.

We are all different, so choices are good.
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Last edited by combat auto; 09-08-2018 at 05:53 AM.
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