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  #1  
Old 03-20-2017, 10:55 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Another rocket scientist.

Chalk up another one for the team.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/...mit/ar-AAomW5N
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:11 AM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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I like how they wove Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman into it.

Totally unconnected.

I will say that this is why anyone who is carrying concealed should educate themselves regarding safety, proficiency and in this case the legal ramifications of carrying and/or using their firearm.

There was no need for the use of deadly force if the story published is accurate.

It's also interesting to note that his "Government Issued Permission Slip" was summarily terminated.

Is it still a "Right" when you're required to have "Permission"?
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:56 AM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is online now
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This thread ...

... has brought to mind: govt should not be issuing CCW licenses / "permits" (especially not called "permits") ... but ... if the CCW insurance industry would only write insurance for a person who's passed a class on state: deadly force & firearm law ; conflict de-escalation / peaceful resolution; etc: it would remove -ignorance- as an excuse. This guy, however, seems to have surpassed ignorance ... again, assuming there's significant truth to the story. The ignorant / misleading references to Zimmerman give me doubts.
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:58 AM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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"Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon attacked him and that he fired in self-defense."


Which was affirmed by the jury.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:03 PM
tipoc tipoc is offline
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If the facts as presented are accurate then Mr. Brown was acting irresponsibly and made a few mistakes. He saw two Black men chasing a Caucasian man who was yelling for help. He created a narrative in his mind of what was happening. He pursued them, remained unobservant of what was actually happening, and pulled his roscoe on the men to get them to stop. Fired a "warning shot" like on TV. (On TV people always stop whatever they are doing when a warning shot is fired, look scared and then docilely follow all commands...in real life not so much.)

Anyway it's easy to see what he did wrong. What should he have done. He could have called 911 and reported an incident and then followed and observed carefully. Maybe a cell phone vid. There are a number of things he could have done short of jerking and firing, based on the particulars. But he didn't as he was working off a narrative in his mind and not off of what was in front of him.

Harsh but the judge was likely right.

tipoc
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:27 PM
Sgt. Y Sgt. Y is offline
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Someone has been watching too many Lone Ranger reruns.
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:37 PM
ACPete ACPete is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
He could have called 911 and reported an incident and then followed and observed carefully.
He should have done the above and left his gun in its holster.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:55 PM
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Tim Burke Tim Burke is offline
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Don't go looking for trouble.
There was no indication in the described scenario that lethal force was warranted by anyone, until our would-be hero pulled his gun. Then, if someone had shot him, it might have been justified.
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:03 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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This is not the first time that a Black mental health worker/caretakers is assumed to be the Bad Guy when trying to deal with a White mentally ill person.

It happened last year here in South Florida, except it was the police that shot the Black mental health worker.

Funny how there wasn't a Judge around to take away the guns from the police. Double standard maybe?

It turned into a big fracas because the issue was that cops presume (profile) that the Black person is the bad guy and it had the #BlackLivesMatter movement all up in a storm.
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:04 PM
buffgun buffgun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgt_usa View Post
... has brought to mind: govt should not be issuing CCW licenses / "permits" (especially not called "permits") ... but ... if the CCW insurance industry would only write insurance for a person who's passed a class on state: deadly force & firearm law ; conflict de-escalation / peaceful resolution; etc: it would remove -ignorance- as an excuse. This guy, however, seems to have surpassed ignorance ... again, assuming there's significant truth to the story. The ignorant / misleading references to Zimmerman give me doubts.
Well using this idea you should be paying insurance to speak or vote or any of the other RIGHTS !
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:13 PM
HugoStiglitz HugoStiglitz is offline
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It's difficult if not impossible to keep guns out of the hands of the stupid. Can't keep 'em from driving or procreating either...
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:18 PM
teddyearp teddyearp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonHyphenAmerican View Post
I like how they wove Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman into it.
What do you expect from MSN?

But dude did pull a boner, still not sure if it is the Judge's authority to revoke his 'permission'.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:23 PM
Fity Fity is offline
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One of the things I don't recall ever mentioned about Travon Martin being killed is as the temptation to beat the crap out of someone who is following you might seem reasonable to a teenager, it's neither legallyrics justified or wise. In that case,two unwise people met,and one got killed.
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:25 PM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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The guy was probably in the right depending upon the body language of the two workers.

But in this day and age, laws and attitudes are such that minding your own business is the best policy if there is any chance for ambiguity. The classic undercover co

How would I know there is no ambiguity? I see a man raping a five year old, a cop getting attacked, etc. "Mala en se"
crimes where I know the whole context...such situations are few and far between. Even helping a cop could get one killed!

Last edited by tomrkba; 03-20-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:32 PM
kitchencounsel kitchencounsel is offline
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"The white man was mentally ill and had fled from two care workers. The chase was their attempt to corral him..."

This is exactly the thing my HCP instructor hammered again and again - you might think you're defending an innocent, then find out - in court - that you jumped the gun and pulled your Deputy Dawg routine on the wrong party.

As has been said, if the facts are correct the public is probably safer with this jackwagon being permit-less.

Of course, the article is from the WashPo so you know they're going to have to hit at least a couple of lib talking points.
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:34 PM
CSMALLO CSMALLO is offline
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Would you have supported a government employee drawing his weapon in the same situation? If not, why not? If so, do you subscribe to the theory that we live under a system of delegated powers and that a government employee should have no privileges to do what a citizen is forbidden to do? How can the citizens delegate powers to government employees that they themselves do not have?

Yes, firing the weapon was stupid, but if it had been a couple gang members beating up another citizen, how many of you would have attacked the guy for not helping?
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:47 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchencounsel View Post
"The white man was mentally ill and had fled from two care workers. The chase was their attempt to corral him..."

This is exactly the thing my HCP instructor hammered again and again - you might think you're defending an innocent, then find out - in court - that you jumped the gun and pulled your Deputy Dawg routine on the wrong party.

As has been said, if the facts are correct the public is probably safer with this jackwagon being permit-less.

Of course, the article is from the WashPo so you know they're going to have to hit at least a couple of lib talking points.
It is precisely the same theory that our CCW course instructor told us in class.

Don't get involved. He gave us a scenario of a man and a woman fighting in a parking lot and the man forcing the woman into the car. He asked what should we do? I raised my hand and said call 911, and everyone laughed.

But after several more answers from the class on what to do, he confirmed what I said. The reason is that they may be a couple and they could be role playing a kidnap and rape fantasy to suit their kinky sex lives.

Bottom line we don't know, and the best thing to do is call police and let them sort it out.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:36 PM
barksdale barksdale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
...It turned into a big fracas because the issue was that cops presume (profile) that the Black person is the bad guy and it had the #BlackLivesMatter movement all up in a storm.
That one turned into a big fracas because the careworker was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and still was shot!
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:14 PM
tipoc tipoc is offline
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That one turned into a big fracas because the careworker was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and still was shot!
Yep. He had nothing that looked like a weapon in his hands either. He was also shot while trying to explain to the police what the situation was and asking them not to shoot his patient. The autistic man did have a toy truck in his hands. So they shot the caregiver.

People were justifiable outraged over that shooting and not just because of the racial aspect to it, which in some ways was the least important aspect of it. Public protest in one effective way to remind police officers to operate within the law.

tipoc
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:22 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
It is precisely the same theory that our CCW course instructor told us in class.

Don't get involved. He gave us a scenario of a man and a woman fighting in a parking lot and the man forcing the woman into the car. He asked what should we do? I raised my hand and said call 911, and everyone laughed.

But after several more answers from the class on what to do, he confirmed what I said. The reason is that they may be a couple and they could be role playing a kidnap and rape fantasy to suit their kinky sex lives.

Bottom line we don't know, and the best thing to do is call police and let them sort it out.
Better yet, you could engage the man and be clubbed/shot/stabbed from behind by the woman. Relatives and friends who are/were L.E. professionals had -lots- of stories like that:

Man and woman, just two: they fight.
But enter a third, the two unite!
Against the pair, the wise take flight!
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  #21  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:02 PM
nonobaddog nonobaddog is offline
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This happened a year ago. The washington post is a left wing rag and the reporter is a left wing rabble rouser so you know they love stories like this.

This stupid guy was found guilty of discharging a firearm but not guilty of assault. Of course there will be stupid guys with carry permits. There are stupid cab drivers, stupid cops, stupid ex-vice presidents, stupid actors, etc. Remember half the people in the world have a below average IQ.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:06 PM
Duece McGurk Duece McGurk is offline
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Training, traning, training. Screening, screening, screening. And still there will be incidents.
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:12 PM
chuck.panoff chuck.panoff is offline
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This is why I'm against "constitutional carry".
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:17 PM
TjB101 TjB101 is offline
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Harsh but the judge was likely right.



tipoc


I totally agree.
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:42 PM
Tomk2 Tomk2 is offline
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My favorite was the genius who pulled his gun to stop a man from attacking a woman and small child in a McDonalds. Which in reality was a man protecting his child from being abducted by an unfit mother during a scheduled supervised visit. Barney stopped the "attack" and the woman escaped with the child. Way to go Barney!
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