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  #1  
Old 08-14-2012, 03:22 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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Firearms Instructors Hall of Fame

Firearms Instructors Hall of Fame honors Instructors who have demonstrated commitment and dedication to promoting standards of excellence and achievement in our shooting community. These innovators have expanded the understanding of firearms manipulation and shooting prowess to levels never before imagined by most of us. This is a place to honor those who press forward
regardless of consequences to push the limits of their abilities,and to continue the evolution of the shooting disciplines for every one.

Firearms Instructors Recognition.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvdB9...ure=plpp_video
a picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGjBP...9&feature=plcp
and of course The Professionals


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIP0c...layer_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKWIb...eature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU
yout tax dollars at work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vk42PgdO84
is this the safety?
  #2  
Old 08-27-2012, 03:13 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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most of would expect this to hurt,but one expert took it upon himself to prove it for all of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs

I am very surprised this didn't end up on the tonight show or part of the
Brady bunch gun control propaganda.

I have emailed him a half a dozen times telling him that this might damage
the image of shooters, but I guess he doesn't care
  #3  
Old 08-31-2012, 09:39 PM
JWnTN JWnTN is offline
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Those were painful to watch, but like driving by a car wreck, I just couldn't help looking.
 
  #4  
Old 09-01-2012, 12:33 AM
EricTheMarine EricTheMarine is offline
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American Defense Enterprises? More like Accidental Discharge Enterprises.

They are gonna get someone killed out there. Sadly it wont be the bad guy breaking into someones home, but perhaps that students kid because she was "taught" to shoot behind her, without a propper grip, without looking down the sights.

Trained Marines you say? I call BS on that one Mr Bill Beasly. Not a single Marine I know would dare participate in such udder disregard for personal and student safety. And for what? So you can look "cool".

What really makes me mad is this is in CA, now ima have to write a nasty email...

-Eric
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Others - S&W M&P45 x2, S&W M&P45c, S&W 24-6, S&W 19-4, S&W 629, S&W M&P 15, Winchester 94 100yr Ann., Kel-Tec SU16CA, Rossi 92 .357 x2, DPMS Panther 308, F.LLI Pietta 1851 Repro
Semper Fi
  #5  
Old 09-10-2012, 01:57 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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Trained Marines you say? I call BS on that one

Eric

you are right!

But most new shooters don’t check qualifications of their instructors. They just take it on faith that someone else did and that since they are teaching the instructor must be qualified.
Even if this guy was in the marines was he a trainer, and is he teaching what the marines are using?
I have seen a lot of so called military instructors that are teaching a bunch of “BS” in their classes and passing it off
As military tactics.
  #6  
Old 09-25-2012, 04:41 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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and part of the problem is US shooters, we allow this behavior to go un challenged on the forum. So these individuals that are mentioned here feel that they can just make stuff up and sell it as Military training or LEO training.
New shooters come to forums looking for truthful information on how to develop their shooting skills. to some point I think we have a duty to play it forward and help out the new guys (as someone did for us)
  #7  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:26 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ww1911 View Post
Trained Marines you say? I call BS on that one

Eric

you are right!

But most new shooters don’t check qualifications of their instructors. They just take it on faith that someone else did and that since they are teaching the instructor must be qualified.
Even if this guy was in the marines was he a trainer, and is he teaching what the marines are using?
I have seen a lot of so called military instructors that are teaching a bunch of “BS” in their classes and passing it off
As military tactics.
Check the bios whenever you can. It's not that hard. I found conflicting information from different sources. One says a guy retired with this many years, the other bio says something different. Some bios won't mention the ageny/unit they came from. Why? You did what you did! Be proud of it or not.
If not, fix it the right way....
  #8  
Old 09-25-2012, 08:41 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Before it's asked how to fix it the right way.....
If you came from a small agency but claim to have long years in LE dealing with who knows what and conducted ALL training for that agency, remember there are those that say that with agencies of less than 100 people and those long years turn into maybe 20 years total.
How then should the guys respond to that who were at big agencies with hundreds of Officers in cities of hundreds of thousands???

Be honest!


Read the bios and find out who or what they are.....
  #9  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:24 AM
JesseGPresley JesseGPresley is offline
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Looking at the video called "Professionals" it definitely seems like a pitch tape for a reality tv show.
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:15 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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a good instructor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick0610 View Post
Before it's asked how to fix it the right way.....
If you came from a small agency but claim to have long years in LE dealing with who knows what and conducted ALL training for that agency, remember there are those that say that with agencies of less than 100 people and those long years turn into maybe 20 years total.
How then should the guys respond to that who were at big agencies with hundreds of Officers in cities of hundreds of thousands???

Be honest!


Read the bios and find out who or what they are.....


I would rather have a good instructor from a department of 100, than
the worst instructor from a department of 1000.
the question is; did our guy seek out training and work at being a good instructor? just because they have a job doesn't mean they are any good at it (sorry to say )
  #11  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:26 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ww1911 View Post
I would rather have a good instructor from a department of 100, than
the worst instructor from a department of 1000.
the question is; did our guy seek out training and work at being a good instructor? just because they have a job doesn't mean they are any good at it (sorry to say )
That could get a bit subjective. A generalized statement isn't good but .....Who's to say the worst instructor at a large agency is bad or that any instructor at a small agency is good?

Here was my point and I'm coming from the angle where I taught the TCLEOSE Firearm's Instructor School for Texas for a few years.

Typically the smaller agencies didn't have the resources (ie...money!) to get their guys allot of training or equipment. Typically allot of cops don't shoot enough and shoot only about 100 rounds a year when you MAKE them.
So the smaller agency trainer has to rely on his own limited resources to extend his training and may get less product. With less Officers a smaller agency has it can be harder to get time off to get your own instruction unless you take your own leave time. On the other hand, large agencies have money and time. Trainers could get outside classes on the government coin. We typically had 500,000 rounds of pistol ammo in the armory EVERY year and the instructors were allowed to shoot whenever they pleased off the goverment coin. Most became very good.
Seeing a good cross section of Texas Police trainers from the TCLEOSE school showed this to be true. This is not to say that the small agencies didn't have good trainers. I know of a very small agency in the Ft Worth area who's ONLY firearms instructor is pretty good BUT it's because of his enthusiasm and his use of his own resources that made him who he is.
Large agencies face a different issue and often have a good instructor cadre for several reasons. With hundreds and thousands of Officers to train and qualify, you don't get time to have very many slackers. Qualifications may run for a month straight! Day and night. The instructors have to run like a well oiled machine or get clogged up. The talkers get left behind or get run off. With that many Officers a trainier who only has BS and no function doesn't survive the srcutiny of the troops and the other trainers.
But, as I said, it wouldn't be fair to make a generalized comparison since PEOPLE are involved and they make the difference. So rather than be subjective, I made a comparison based on what I saw at the TCLESOE school.

Good example: for TCLEOSE you must qualifiy on the first day with both a revolver and an auto pistol. These days folks may not shoot a revolver at all.
The SO I still work with prohibits revolvers.
When we made new instructors at the larger agency I was at, we pulled some revolvers out of the armory with a bunch of ammo and made sure the instructor candidates were well versed in both a revolver and an auto pistol.
I'm sure the other instructors may have or could borrow the equipment but it was pretty easy with the generous resources we had.
Not totally definitive but on average it was more true than not....

Last edited by Mick0610; 10-02-2012 at 07:38 AM.
  #12  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:10 AM
nyeti nyeti is offline
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Here is a basic fact in regards to instructors from L/E agencies-if their resume is lacking a lot of outside training from what is "required", they will very likely be very much lacking. I could have taught most of the classes I was mandated to attend. All the real learning took place in the numerous classes I took on my own. I spent a fortune on tuition and burned vacation time attending schools. I used my badge for access to great training in organizations and places that most citizens can't get inside of, and a ton of taxpayer provided ammo (it was not free, and I felt I owed it back to our citizens to not be wasting it) allowed me to gain a ton of training, but it was not a result of my agency. Most L/E firearms instructors are not true Subject Matter Experts. They are few and far between. The same is true in the military. What you do get with SME's from military and L/E organizations? When you do find those SME's, they often have a huge amount of operational experience to go with the training and IF they can also teach......it is the trivecta you should be seeking out if you are looking for practical tactical training. If you want pure technical training on the mechanics of shooting, others can provide it. It is imperative that the potential student knows the difference and really knows what they want.
  #13  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:42 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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And therein lies the main reason I got into competition shooting right after attending firearm's instructor shool on 1988. I don't believe a resume with allot of outside training means anything special. I don't see a basic fact in there. Just that you went somewhere and listened to someone else whether they were good or not.
I sought out the best shooters I could find and they were on competition ranges every weekend. They were far better than any police class I ever took. There are citizens with far better skills than the majority of Police trainers out there. They may not have a Police application for those skills though. It was up to our local cadre of instructors and the national trainers organizations to find the application. That info was shared freely within our cadre. Couple that with those of us who spent several decades using those skills on the street and you have good tactical application. There IS a reason Officers with 30 years of street experience have survived without using deadly force and it's not luck. They learned good tactics and used them. More often than not they got them from their agency's instructors who developed the proper skills and not always from the swift talking instructors who sell those same skills and techniques for money.
There are many very good instructors out there at agencies all over the country who know as much as anyone when it comes to skills and tactics, they just aren't selling it.

Last edited by Mick0610; 10-02-2012 at 08:47 AM.
  #14  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:21 AM
nyeti nyeti is offline
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"There IS a reason Officers with 30 years of street experience have survived without using deadly force and it's not luck."

And sometimes when you are always placing yourself in dangerous situations on a very regular basis with very dangerous people, you end up having more of a chance of having to use deadly force. The reality is that 94-96 percent of most cops will never use lethal force. Of the small percentage of folks who do end up in a shooting during their careers, the percentage of LEO's who have been in multiple "good" shootings with serious bad guys is very small. I sought out those folks who had been in a lot of gunfights because they were at the tip of a very sharp spear for training. I guarantee I got far more out of my time with LAPD Metro and LAPD SIS, and guys like Pat Rogers, than I ever got with the local hot shot competition guys. YMMV, but that is the path I took because I had access to it.

Now with that said, some of this is regional. Back in the 93 time frame I traveled to the "Republic" to shoot one of the Dallas County Sheriff matches. As a group, it was obvious that the Texas guys were exceptionally good shooters, and far better and more gun oriented as individual shooters than what I was seeing in my area. I took second in that match, but I had to work my tail off for it, and the difference in times in the top 10 was very minimal. Texas was more of a "gun culture" and it showed. So much of this is regional and I also think criminals in the Republic were less likely to challenge L/E because of a combination of the skills of the officers and how they carried themselves (very confident and a high level of command presence with those I dealt with) and the laws and criminal justice system were less tolerant of criminal activity. I have found that many gunfights can be avoided by showing a clear superiority over the bad guys. This comes from lots of training and building "real" hard earned confidence. It's great when it works out with the bad guys simply surrending, but it doesn't always work out that way..............and Mick is right in that luck can also find its way into the mix....sometimes good, sometimes bad.
  #15  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:41 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Having lived in California and visited again recently I sure do agree with the cultural differences but not just with Texas but others as well.
I lived in Minnesota for 10+ years and that is also a different world.
I would certainly agree that in some of the metro cities of the west coast you could find more folks likely to shoot it out with Police. It might be gaining here in Texas but the west coast had it bad. I can't speak for the east coast but I would imagine there is something different there as well.
I did visit the Cuban area around Miami once. I was on full alert at all times! That area was maybe more dangerous that any I had been to in California or anywhere.
The city I retired from has 400,000 people. There is a good cross section of ethnic groups but the ones that don't speak allot of English seemed to have the most violent incidents. We will never know the true population of Asians.
They don't interact with us much. Understanding them was difficult.
I had a Vietnamese rookie who was really good. Even with his guidance I found the cultrual differences extremely hard to work with.
Back in the day, Texas seemed to be a simple place to live.
  #16  
Old 10-03-2012, 03:35 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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"There IS a reason Officers with 30 years of street experience have survived without using deadly force and it's not luck."
agreed but that skill takes a long time but some have it, and some never will.
  #17  
Old 10-03-2012, 03:50 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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And therein lies the main reason I got into competition shooting right after attending firearm's instructor school on 1988. I don't believe a resume with allot of outside training means anything special. I don't see a basic fact in there. Just that you went somewhere and listened to someone else whether they were good or not.

I posted this in an effort to start a discussion about selecting a good instructor
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=378752
finding a good trainer who can teach the basics is the most important thing to start
too many schools out there now give out free passes to fill their class
(I mean letting a level-1 shooter into a level-3 class)
this does a disservice to everyone in the class.
the level-1 shooter is in over his head and will most likely be a potential safety issue
for everyone on the range. (babysitting may be required)
All the students that deserve a level-3 will now have a watered down class because
of having students that are not ready to take this class
(sounds strangely like the Kalifornia school system)
  #18  
Old 10-03-2012, 07:46 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ww1911 View Post
"There IS a reason Officers with 30 years of street experience have survived without using deadly force and it's not luck."
agreed but that skill takes a long time but some have it, and some never will.

There is allot of truth in that!
  #19  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:22 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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Sign A Duel Contract And Possibly Get Murdered By James Yeager

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/201...-james-yeager/
  #20  
Old 02-20-2013, 02:22 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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the ultimate tac med course you could ever hope to take


http://www.lmsdefense.com/course-det...Pet+First+Aid+
  #21  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:49 AM
rs00956 rs00956 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ww1911 View Post
Sign A Duel Contract And Possibly Get Murdered By James Yeager

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/201...-james-yeager/
Or get sued/aressted when you injure or kill him.What a clown
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:26 PM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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another addition to the Instructors Hall of fame

http://www.bayareafirearms.com/meet-our-staff/

AR-15 Rifle Courses
5-7 Hour course Contractors going over seas this course is a must. Minors welcome 12 years, and up. Please call us direct for details… Bring your kids they will love it. Gift Certificates Available.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/bay-area-fir...rms%20training




In the words of their students

http://www.yelp.com/biz/bay-area-fir...rms%20training

YELP review
Update - 1/9/2013
Yelpers, please beware when purchasing any type of deal for Bay Area Firearms not only for the reasons I've describe regarding my own experience in previous posts, but also because my suspicions were true that the owner of this company will try come after you. After requesting 6 months ago that Scott no longer contact me as well as blocking him on yelp, I am slightly surprised that he is still refusing to leave me alone.

Please see his public outburst below and ask yourself: Is this someone I'd like to teach me how to shoot guns? Do I want to take the risk that he will fly off the handle bars and attack me if I tell him I was unsatisfied with my class? Do I feel like this person is trying to be intimidating and am I comfortable with that? In my opinion, the answers are "No, No, and Yes, I feel like he's trying to be intimidating. No, I'm not comfortable with that".

Thank you, Scott, for confirming you are not someone I would ever do business with. My updated review is twice as popular as the original. Please go forward with your legal action; I have everything in writing and am not afraid of bullies like you.
Listed in: Never Go Here!!!
Was this review …?

2 Previous Reviews:

6/26/2012
Dear Manager Scott,

While I appreciate your efforts in the attempt to contain the damage done by these negative yelp reviews by offering a free course to those who have rated you low, I find it hollow and contrived.

As I have said through our yelp messages, "it is too late to salvage my business" and I am even more sure of it especially after reading your replies to the other people who left unsatisfactory reviews. It is very clear that your best interest is not in customer service as evidenced by your ghastly public statement to another reviewer. Just because someone isn't a paying customer right now, doesn't mean they won't be later or have other customers they influence.

I am sorry to say that I would never take your offer of a free class especially since I am afraid of what threats you may make against me. I believe that http://yelp.com offers an open forum for customers to exercise their 1st Amendement Right and to share our opinions. The last thing the yelp community needs is a merchant who threatens people with legal action to not share their thoughts about a business.

Yelp.com's content guidelines specifically tell business owners "Don't use public comments to launch personal attacks, advertise, or offer an incentive to change a review." http://www.yelp.com…. Rather then being defensive and belligerent, perhaps there is some validity to the frustration these people are expressing and it may be a good learning experience for the growth of your business.

After months of this non-sense, I wish to end our interaction regarding this unfortunate event here. Please do not contact me anymore.
Was this review …?
CAUTION: I am writing this review because I had wished I knew this before I purchased a deal on Living Social and am only reflecting on my own experience in dealing with Bay Area Firearms.

Aside from the bizarre incident described below, this is what I didn't know about their "deal": The range is off-site, meaning about 45mins (give or take) away from the classroom, that is it's own establishment, not part of Bay Area Firearms. After the class, you drive yourself to one of the three ranges. The range charges about $30, ammo is about $20, renting ear protection and glasses +$3-$5, "cleaning fee" $35. So in addition to paying the instructors $119 for this deal, you're adding another ~$90. Making this "deal"=~$210 out of your pocket. My friend looked into the certification of the one we bought and it wasn't even the NRA one, maybe that's why their current deal on http://zozi.com is listed $20 more then it was on Living Social just a couple of months ago? IDK.

That in itself is something you should know before you buy any deal from them. If you want to know more about my experience, please read on...

I purchased, and convinced two of my friends to purchase, a similar deal on Living Social: $99 Firearms Safety Certification, 2 hrs classroom course and 1 hr range time. I called five weeks in advanced of an ideal date since I anticipated the weekend classes filling up fast and it is often difficult to schedule a free weekend with three working adults.

When my call was answered, the man on the other line sounded irritated when I told him I was redeeming a deal offer. He said, "Can you call back in a couple of weeks? That's too far out on the calendar and I'm not sure what the schedule looks like for March 17th yet. We may be doing some Police training." OK, no problem.

I call back, 14 days on the dot asking for reservations for 3 people redeeming offers on Sat, 3/17, three weeks away. This time, the man on the other line (not sure if it's the same guy) says, "Nope, we're all booked up until summer. In fact, the only thing we have left for that deal is on weekdays at 6pm. The soonest we have would be end of May, Friday at 6pm." I told him how ridiculous that is, since they were the ones that told me to call back in 2 weeks and NOW they're saying it's all full for the next 3 months?? Not only is that absurd but 6pm on a weekday; I don't know about you, but my friends and I are not some hillbilly people who don't have to work.

His response was, "Well, I just got back from a brain injury and one of my instructors got called back to Afghanistan. So I'm trying to catch up with limited hours." Sorry, dude, I'm not about to take a HANDGUN SAFETY class from a guy just returning from a brain injury.

I wrote to Living Social and they promptly refunded my money and my friends got their's returned as well.

I ended up going to a great place in Santa Clara that had great reviews with my two friends. We had a private class at the range for just the three of us, all inclusive for $195/pp. My instructor was great and I learned how to shoot accurately in just 2 hours, never having fired a gun before this. (See my fb photo and how happy I was!)

Firearm safety was one of the best things I did for myself and I'm continuing because of the great experience I ended up having elsewhere. I'm sure there are people who have had great success with this company, but that was not my story.
  #23  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:35 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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This has gotten out of hand........
Every fella that has been on a SWAT Team for 6 months or was near a country that had combat operations is now teaching combat tactics and practical shooting. I use the term "mall ninja" frequently these days.
I can't go to any of the four clubs I belong to without seeing someone dressed in load bearing gear or chest mag pouch full of AR mags running around acting as if they are fighting a war.
It happened again Sunday, an Officer I worked with for 25 years met me so we could do some drills. Here come the ninjas! Luckily they stayed on the rifle range most of the time but they did walk around to see what everyone else was shooting (and show off their chest mag vest!).
See any of them in the gallery of BayArea.com??????
I get so I don't even go to a 3 gun match any more because the mall ninjas are everywhere!!!!

Why do we PAY these people??????
  #24  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:54 AM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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Firearms Negligence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENDp1...M3Yaot_V8bFLPQ
  #25  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:39 PM
ww1911 ww1911 is offline
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let's all say "thank you" to James Yeager

Thank you James, for making the rest of us look as crazy as you seem to be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EvQR6mODig
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