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  #1  
Old 12-29-2019, 12:50 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Talk to me about the arm brace pistols.

I know why we have them, as a work around on SBR regs. But I am wondering mostly about the ergonomics of them. Do they balance alright without using the brace? When you use the brace, is it beneficial or awkward? I have been toying with the idea of getting one, but I have questions. And I am not entirely comfortable with the idea of having a pistol actually physically attached to me. What if you need to use that hand for something else quickly.

Any constructive feedback is welcome.
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2019, 01:14 PM
pmiya pmiya is online now
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I have 2 pistols with the braces. I have never shot them with the brace attached to my arm. They balance well and the brace stabilizes the pistol very well when shouldered. I have attached the brace to my arm and is seemed very uncomfortable and awkward. Both of my braces are SB.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2019, 01:27 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is online now
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They balance well in as much as a SBR does.

With one AR pistol I had with the Shockwave Blade Brace on it I set up a tight, single-point sling that held the gun high on the chest when down. Adjusted just right I could rotate the gun up quickly, shove it forward tight against the sling, and use the brace as a firm cheek weld. This put the brace a little off of the shoulder, maybe an inch or three. It was pretty stable, though obviously it would move a bit more than if against the shoulder.

I have the SB brace on the PAK-9 AK type pistol and it's fine shouldered and everything balances well. The PAK-9 is a bit heavy, but not unwieldy with the brace on.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2019, 01:47 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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They look a little less cumbersome & awkward than the arm-mounted chainsaw in Evil Dead. But not by much.

But hey, as a legal work-around you gotta take the good with the bad. I say go for it.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2019, 02:52 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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I've got 3 double stamp SBR's and 2 braced pistols that are suppressed. To me, there is literally zero difference in how they feel balance wise.

I never brace them. I only shoulder them when shooting.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:23 PM
wildphil wildphil is offline
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Does anyone have documentation from the ATF that states it is acceptable to shoulder a pistol with a brace whenever the shooter wishes to? If that has been Okayed I would like to have a copy of that.

I did see information before that stated that they realized that there would be occasions when people would have contact between the brace and the shoulder and would not prosecute in these instance(not in those exact words).

I like the idea of being able to use the brace for a stock whenever wanted. But if that is no problem. Why do we still have to get a stamp for a short-barreled rifle?
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:34 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is online now
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There have been numerous opinions and clarifications from the BATFE.

First of all, they are not a "work-around" loophole. If I recall correctly, the BATFE says they were not designed as a shoulder stock for non-NFA style SBR's. Period.

It is still a murky, grey area, and like the bump-stock, the opinion of the BATFE may vacillate in the future.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:46 PM
Colt191145 Colt191145 is offline
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The commies will take note of pistol braces sooner or later. I would not be surprised if they go the way of the bumpstock eventually. The precedent has been set, any accessory can be banned now if used in a high profile crime.

If you don't want the run around of applying and waiting for a SBR stamp then the braces are a great way to get something close without the wait. Or better yet use a brace until your stamp is approved.

I have an AR15 SBR, no regrets at all. A friend of mine has the shockwave brace on an AR15 pistol, it sucks compared to a real stock in my opinion.

But he didn't have to pay $200 and ask permission like I did.....
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:56 PM
wildphil wildphil is offline
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I found this letter online about the brace on a pistol from the ATF. Yes, a very gray area. It is worded so they can cause you problems if they chose to.

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/...ch-21-2017.pdf
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2019, 05:14 PM
Guyfromohio Guyfromohio is offline
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That’s supposed to go on my arm?
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  #11  
Old 12-29-2019, 05:16 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Hey, let’s write more letters to the BATF demanding clarification...what could go wrong?!!
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2019, 05:26 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyfromohio View Post
Thatís supposed to go on my arm?
Right. They have a Velcro strap to secure the brace on your forearm. Which is how they were designed to be used.

Imagine what could go wrong if cops show up and demand you drop your weapon immediately?

Something you must consider if you plan to use them at home for self-defense, and in the confusion of a genuine home defense shooting the cops arrive immediately.
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2019, 06:09 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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SB braces are veddy, veddy, nice. I have one on my Bren 805.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2019, 06:12 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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They are NOT a legal Work-Around? Sure, Man. I'll buy that one when I start believing
Miracle Diet Pill ads.

As for the legality of using the "arm brace" for shouldering it, I doubt that could be an illegal act, or make the gun illegal.

Because I can, with some difficulty, fire a handgun with it lodged against my shoulder. That act does NOT turn the gun into a SBR, or me into a criminal. Just a fool with a blown eardrum.

As for getting an authority to say, in writing, that it's okay to shoulder an arm brace, fugeddaboutit. Nobody's gonna touch that one.

I say just jump through this obvious design loop-hole while you can--------- and keep your dated receipt!

Btw, during Prohibition, the sales of ban-exempted "sacramental wine" went up like ten thousand percent. Yet all these sales seemed to vanish overnight in 1933 when Prohibition ended. The ratios of "sacramental" Vs. "regular" wine returned to normal in about one day.

But hey, THAT wasn't a Booze-Ban Work-Around, right? I'd wager that if SBR's became 100% legal, that the demand for "arm braces" would disappear overnight.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2019, 06:14 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Gearhead makes a good brace called the Tailhook that simply swings down and acts as a fulcrum against your forearm. If you're going to use a brace in the way it's actually intended to be used it's probably the best one out there. The ones that strap to your arm are extremely hard to use and I don't know anybody who even bothers. At my local gun range everyone using a braced pistol simply shoulders it just like a SBR. ATF has ruled that a brace cannot give more than 12.5" length of pull, so if you're a big guy you may find them uncomfortable to shoulder. As for the legality of such, ATF once ruled that you cannot shoulder them, then later backtracked and said it's okay if, ahem... it "inadvertently" contacts your shoulder.

One thing to keep in mind with braced pistols is the ability to transport them anywhere you can transport a pistol. SBRs cannot cross state lines without informing ATF prior to your trip. Also, in many states a loaded braced pistol is legal to keep in a vehicle but a loaded SBR or rifle is not.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2019, 06:45 PM
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I shoulder the damn thing - I don't tie it to my forearm.
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:55 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is online now
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Another wordage thing the ATF plays is intent. Basically they say that if you put a brace on with the intention of using it like a stock, then it's a stock and you have an SBR. If you don't intend it as a stock it isn't. Really clear cut definition there, eh. You can use the braces as a cheek weld and not have it against your shoulder or if you only occasionally shoulder your brace that's okay. Hard to prove one way or another what your intent was/is, unless you talk (wrote online, make a point of it in your videos, etc.) about shouldering it all the time or state you are doing it as a work around for an SBR. It's really a bit of pretzel logic.

Who knows, maybe it all comes down to how your pistol and brace are identifying that day. They would have to ask the pistol or the brace I guess. However, I am sure there is probably some policy or regulation that would prevent anyone asking that question as it would insensitive and no PC.
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  #18  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:10 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Yep, I won't ask & it wouldn't tell anyhow.
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  #19  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:17 PM
Plaidad Plaidad is offline
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There was a guy shooting a non-suppressed AR pistol at the range today. Man, are those things loud! The guy was shouldering it like a rifle and dumping mags at 25 yards. He must have been just trying to make noise, because I saw one of his targets when he ran it back in. It looked like pegboard - rounds all over the place.
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  #20  
Old 12-29-2019, 09:36 PM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt191145 View Post

I have an AR15 SBR, no regrets at all. A friend of mine has the shockwave brace on an AR15 pistol, it sucks compared to a real stock in my opinion.
Agreed. No comparison in my opinion. A real SBR is worth the time and expense.
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  #21  
Old 12-29-2019, 09:49 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Agreed. No comparison in my opinion. A real SBR is worth the time and expense.
It absolutely is worth it.

The only reason I bought the braced pistols is for my son to use them when Im not around for him to use the SBR's as they are in my name only, not a trust.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:53 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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This is kind of what I was expecting to hear.

I have been tempted. But I more or less considered that if you really wanted to go with a SBR. Then you really had to go the long route. Pretty bogus if you ask me. Much thanks for all of the feedback.
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2019, 09:57 PM
callmegoose77 callmegoose77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildphil View Post
I found this letter online about the brace on a pistol from the ATF. Yes, a very gray area. It is worded so they can cause you problems if they chose to.

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/...ch-21-2017.pdf
This is the letter I found also. If you want to be told itís ok but not ok but sometimes ok several times, read the whole letter. My attachment shows what I thought was most pertinent. Take it for what itís worth.
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  #24  
Old 12-29-2019, 10:47 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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I have several with the SBM4 and tail hook and aside from being more painful in the clock there is no difference vs a SBR. Only thing that is different is initial shouldering requires more precision/practice
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  #25  
Old 12-30-2019, 12:35 AM
wildphil wildphil is offline
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Originally Posted by callmegoose77 View Post
This is the letter I found also. If you want to be told itís ok but not ok but sometimes ok several times, read the whole letter. My attachment shows what I thought was most pertinent. Take it for what itís worth.
You are right. They don't give any definite answers.
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