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  #51  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldgunner_43 View Post
What hasn't been mentioned here yet is the outrageous effort to close down both outdoor and indoor ranges in the state. Senate Bill 353 defines outdoor ranges as any facility "designed for the use of rifles, shotguns, pistols, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, or any other similar sport shooting". It will be unlawful to operate an outdoor range within 500 yards of any property zoned for residential use unless the Range Design Criteria developed by the U.S. Department of Energy, Office of Health, Safety and Security have been met. I can think of quite a few ranges in Virginia that cannot meet those requirements. There is also a proposed bill that would place restrictions on the location of indoor shooting ranges - this one has the NRA's indoor range at its headquarters in Fairfax, VA as its primary target. It will, however, also have an impact on several other ranges in Virginia. It's almost impossible to keep track of all these bills but the NRA, GOA, VCDL and the Virginia Shooting Sports Association are doing a good job of tracking them.
Yea, it is emblematic of how brazen these SOB's are...This is the NYC model, city-run shooting ranges only. I'm sure part of Bloomberg's marching order's to the Evil-Governor.

This one will not hold up in court, trouble is, if it has to go to the SC it could take many years to get reversed. Court system sucks....

BTW, I asked this in the "mother"-thread to this one but had no response. What do the federal district and appellate courts look like in VA as far as lefty vs righty make up after 3 years of Trump? (In NJ Trump flipped the 3rd circuit appellate (from the left) to the right, which should help us going forward up here.)
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-13-2020 at 06:39 AM.
  #52  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:17 AM
bad2006z71 bad2006z71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Yea, it is emblematic of how brazen these SOB's are...This is the NYC model, city-run shooting ranges only. I'm sure part of Bloomberg's marching order's to the Evil-Governor.

This one will not hold up in court, trouble is, if it has to go to the SC it could take many years to get reversed. Court system sucks....

BTW, I asked this in the "mother"-thread to this one but had no response. What do the federal district and appellate courts look like in VA as far as lefty vs righty make up after 3 years of Trump? (In NJ Trump flipped the 3rd circuit appellate (from the left) to the right, which should help us going forward up here.)
The 4th circuit is still controlled by the left. They have already ruled that Md's BS was legal, though they had to do some amazing mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion.

Unfortunately as far as the courts are concerned, Coonman is right that the laws he will be signing are constitutional. Va will be as bad or worse than NY on July 1st, 2020.

As long as the SCOUTS keeps treating the 2nd as the red headed step child, this is what we get.
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  #53  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bad2006z71 View Post
The 4th circuit is still controlled by the left. They have already ruled that Md's BS was legal, though they had to do some amazing mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion.

Unfortunately as far as the courts are concerned, Coonman is right that the laws he will be signing are constitutional. Va will be as bad or worse than NY on July 1st, 2020.

As long as the SCOUTS keeps treating the 2nd as the red headed step child, this is what we get.
Yep, and this is what makes the situation in VA so "remarkable" and different than anything we have seen before (both these situations are unique):
1) The lefty is attempting to do a "flash-cut" from one of the most 2A friendly states to what they are attempting to convert it to the most anti-2A state (most of the existing lefty states wound up where they are over some amount of time).
2) And at the same time, the Patriots in VA are united with their sheriffs and local-representatives (over some 90% of the state) in saying heck-no, it isn't going to happen.

You want them, "Come and take them"!

This is the "proverbial" showdown.

Praying for the Patriots as their win will be our win. (and vise verse).

C.A.
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-13-2020 at 08:37 AM.
  #54  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:06 AM
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  #55  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:50 AM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
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The "mental illness" diagnosis - from politicians, of course...


Quote:
Sen. Dave Marsden, who supports Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg,
is an advocate of proposed gun control legislation and is part of the Democratic majority in the
Virginia General Assembly.

Instead of apologizing for the insensitive remarks, Marsden called Second Amendment supporters
"mentally ill" in a letter he sent following a meeting with constituents.

Mornings on the Mall host Mary Walter read part of Marsden's letter on-air and asked him to comment.
"Too many of your members and other 2A supporters appear to have mental health issues," Walter quoted.
"A significant number of these things were indicative of very unstable people, and this is worrisome," replied
Marsden. "The responses I was getting were from people who showed signs of having mental health difficulties."
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  #56  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:50 AM
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My congressman is going to show up in Richmond on the twentieth.

To show solidarity with us. This is my US congressman Morgan Griffith. There are still a few good ones on capitol hill. Here is the message that he sent out.


Congressman Griffith's Weekly E-Newsletter 1.13.20
Monday, January 13, 2020 –
Second Amendment
The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is one of our most important rights.
I strongly support the Second Amendment, and many Southwest Virginians proudly and safely exercise it.
Many gunowners are concerned that this right will be in jeopardy under the new majorities in the Virginia General Assembly.
The first actions of the new assembly, which began on January 8, confirmed some of those concerns.
On a party-line vote on January 10, the Joint Senate and House Rules Committee and the separate House Rules Committee banned firearms from the state Capitol and legislative office building. Before the committees’ actions, firearm owners with concealed carry permits had been allowed to bring their guns into the buildings.
When I was a member of the House of Delegates, I felt safer rather than less safe knowing that armed individuals were present.
The issue first came up after the September 11 attacks. I was majority leader of the House and strenuously argued against banning guns in the Capitol and legislative buildings.
The Capitol Police are dedicated and effective, but they can’t be everywhere. It was reassuring to know that if a threat materialized, law-abiding individuals carrying their firearms would be present to take action. And when meetings stretched late into the night, it was helpful for legislators to be able to carry their weapons in order to assure their safety.
What is more, advocates for the ban claimed to be acting on the advice of the Capitol Police, but the police chief only gave them his advice when informed by leadership that a firearms ban at the Capitol was going to happen.
Unfortunately, this new restriction on legal firearm use is likely only the first to gain approval in the new General Assembly.
HB 567 outlaws civilian indoor shooting ranges in buildings where more than 50 people work. If 90 percent or more of the range’s users are law enforcement personnel, the range can stay open, but only as long as it maintains a log of the users including their names, phone numbers, and addresses.
Closing ranges would cost gun owners a place to safely practice and perform maintenance. For example, my son plans to use an indoor range to sight his new hunting rifle. That option would be limited by this bill.
One bill, SB 13, would extend the ban on firearms to Capitol Square in Richmond. Another, HB 599 in the House of Delegates and SB 15 in the Senate, would extend the ban on firearms in legislative buildings to all state buildings. This is wrong-headed. Law-abiding gun owners make buildings safer while exercising their constitutional rights.
Governor Northam’s administration is pushing eight bills that would restrict the rights of gun owners. A proposed ban on assault weapons, defined as any semiautomatic rifle or pistol with a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, only allows people who currently own such weapons to keep them if they can obtain “permission” through a permit issued by the state.
Another bill would give local governments more authority to regulate firearms. Thus, state actions could only be the forerunner of local action in areas where local governments are hostile to the Second Amendment.
If enacted, these bills are likely to make little contribution to public safety. They will curb the ability of law-abiding citizens to make the most of their constitutional rights.
In Washington, too, Democrat legislators are intent on restricting Second Amendment rights, having introduced bans on some weapons, licensing, and other limitations. Fortunately, the Senate is unlikely to pass these measures and President Trump would not likely sign them.
These checks are not present in Virginia, however, where leadership in both legislative chambers and the executive branch are aligned in favor of restrictions on law-abiding gun owners.
On a happier note, I was encouraged when the Democrat majority in the House of Delegates kept proportional representation on committees, a sign that the new majority would not seek to shut out all dissenting voices.
But so far, the voice of one group of dissenters to what the General Assembly is doing, gun owners, is unlikely to be heeded.
No matter what they do in Richmond, I will continue to support the Second Amendment in Washington. I urge legislators in Richmond to do the same and reconsider proposals that place restrictions on one of our most important constitutional rights.
Accordingly, I plan to be in Richmond on January 20 for a rally supporting the Second Amendment.
If you have questions, concerns, or comments, feel free to contact my office. You can call my Abingdon office at 276-525-1405, my Christiansburg office at 540-381-5671, or my Washington office at 202-225-3861. To reach my office via email, please visit my website at www.morgangriffith.house.gov.
###






Washington, DC Office
2202 Rayburn HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515
T (202) 225-3861
F (202) 225-0076
Abingdon Office
323 West Main St.
Abingdon, VA 24210
T (276) 525-1405
F (276) 525-1444
Christiansburg Office
17 West Main St.
Christiansburg, VA 24073
T (540) 381-5671
F (540) 381-5675
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  #57  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:42 PM
bad2006z71 bad2006z71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Yep, and this is what makes the situation in VA so "remarkable" and different than anything we have seen before (both these situations are unique):
1) The lefty is attempting to do a "flash-cut" from one of the most 2A friendly states to what they are attempting to convert it to the most anti-2A state (most of the existing lefty states wound up where they are over some amount of time).
2) And at the same time, the Patriots in VA are united with their sheriffs and local-representatives (over some 90% of the state) in saying heck-no, it isn't going to happen.

You want them, "Come and take them"!

This is the "proverbial" showdown.

Praying for the Patriots as their win will be our win. (and vise verse).

C.A.
I don't know the answers and I am a pessimist, so I generally believe the worse will happen here.

Looks like SB-16 has been removed and the Dems will throw their weight behind HB-961, which is far worse.

What will happen? My guess, is the Va SAFE act passes. 5% or less compliance with registration.
The gov will make some arrests and make some examples. Most of the banned items will be locked away in a safe never to see the light of day outside of some of the mountain and backwoods area.

Gun owners will have to become silent from fear of getting Red Flagged.
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  #58  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:15 PM
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Sen. Dave Marsden, who supports Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg,
is an advocate of proposed gun control legislation and is part of the Democratic majority in the
Virginia General Assembly.

Instead of apologizing for the insensitive remarks, Marsden called Second Amendment supporters
"mentally ill" in a letter he sent following a meeting with constituents.

Mornings on the Mall host Mary Walter read part of Marsden's letter on-air and asked him to comment.
"Too many of your members and other 2A supporters appear to have mental health issues," Walter quoted.
"A significant number of these things were indicative of very unstable people, and this is worrisome," replied
Marsden. "The responses I was getting were from people who showed signs of having mental health difficulties."

We are becoming the old USSR.
They regularly used Psychiatric Hospitals to imprison people for years at a time and remove them from society.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
George Santayana, Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense,
Scribner's, 1905, page 284
  #59  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:56 PM
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combat auto combat auto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad2006z71 View Post
I don't know the answers and I am a pessimist, so I generally believe the worse will happen here.

Looks like SB-16 has been removed and the Dems will throw their weight behind HB-961, which is far worse.

What will happen? My guess, is the Va SAFE act passes. 5% or less compliance with registration.
The gov will make some arrests and make some examples. Most of the banned items will be locked away in a safe never to see the light of day outside of some of the mountain and backwoods area.

Gun owners will have to become silent from fear of getting Red Flagged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Sen. Dave Marsden, who supports Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg,
is an advocate of proposed gun control legislation and is part of the Democratic majority in the
Virginia General Assembly.

Instead of apologizing for the insensitive remarks, Marsden called Second Amendment supporters
"mentally ill" in a letter he sent following a meeting with constituents.

Mornings on the Mall host Mary Walter read part of Marsden's letter on-air and asked him to comment.
"Too many of your members and other 2A supporters appear to have mental health issues," Walter quoted.
"A significant number of these things were indicative of very unstable people, and this is worrisome," replied
Marsden. "The responses I was getting were from people who showed signs of having mental health difficulties."

We are becoming the old USSR.
They regularly used Psychiatric Hospitals to imprison people for years at a time and remove them from society.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
George Santayana, Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense,
Scribner's, 1905, page 284
Yep, this may shape up to the great (modern-day) survival test of our Constitution in general and 2A in particular. I say this because we are facing a determined rabid foe in VA, but at the same time, the Patriots have built a solid coalition (best I've seen in the 2A community) to fight these rabid animals.

If I had to guess, because who knows, as long as the Patriots stay united they will materially win in the end. The force is too great for the Evil-Governor to overcome without attempting significant violence. And (if) he attempts violence he will loose politically. Yea, shooting a defiant 2A supporter or two in a state may not get much attention (just waved off as some gun-nut who "deserved" what he got), but the country (and I suspect VA) will not stand for attempted murder of an entire class of people who are doing nothing but defending their God-Given and 2A rights as stipulated in the Constitution. Not even in today's America will it be tolerated...The Evil Governor is btwn a rock and a hard place.
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-13-2020 at 03:15 PM.
  #60  
Old 01-13-2020, 03:40 PM
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  #61  
Old 01-13-2020, 05:11 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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it looks like today the Va. senate has passed removing the state's pre-emption so localities can impose their own restrictions... as well as a few other bills.
  #62  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:43 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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No rational person expects to fight a war.

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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
it looks like today the Va. senate has passed removing the state's pre-emption so localities can impose their own restrictions... as well as a few other bills.
And win every battle. Twenty years ago we had local preemption. Ten years ago we had one gun a month. Which by the way concealed carry permit holders are exempt from anyway. The big battles still lay ahead.
  #63  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:43 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
And win every battle. Twenty years ago we had local preemption. Ten years ago we had one gun a month. Which by the way concealed carry permit holders are exempt from anyway. The big battles still lay ahead.
I lived in NoVa for 8 years, moving there just after the NVCDL became the VCDL and shall issue got passed into law. I thought Va. was really the right place to be except for the taxes. needless to say, sprawl and crawl became the accepted norm, high tax assessment increases every 6 months on real-estate, private sectors jobs dwindling and government jobs expanding drove me away.
I really do wish the very best for the decent folks of Va.

if all the republican state senators side with the constitution, how many democrats state senators are needed to do the same to defeat these anti 2nd Amendment bills?
  #64  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:39 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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NOVA is quite different from where I live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
Taxes are still pretty reasonable where I live, and jobs are not an issue for me.

if all the republican state senators side with the constitution, how many democrats state senators are needed to do the same to defeat these anti 2nd Amendment bills?
The answer to your question is four. We need four state democratic Senators to flip. We are confidant that we can do this. We will certainly see.

You should consider this as well. Some of these minor bills like the one gun a month bill and local rules bill. While clearly wrong. They may actually have a net benefit in the grand scheme of things. You give some of these fence sitter demos something that they can take back to their constituents on the dark side. They can say "Hey we came down on the side of tightening up gun control." "See how we voted on this bill." And then down the road when more onerous bills come up for a vote, say magazine restrictions, whatever. They can vote against it. And then they can go back to their pro gun constituents and say. "We stood for gun owners on this, We stand up for the second amendment." Welcome to politics.

Last edited by USMM guy; 01-13-2020 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Added an additional comment.
  #65  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:23 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
The answer to your question is four. We need four state democratic Senators to flip. We are confidant that we can do this. We will certainly see.

You should consider this as well. Some of these minor bills like the one gun a month bill and local rules bill. While clearly wrong. They may actually have a net benefit in the grand scheme of things. You give some of these fence sitter demos something that they can take back to their constituents on the dark side. They can say "Hey we came down on the side of tightening up gun control." "See how we voted on this bill." And then down the road when more onerous bills come up for a vote, say magazine restrictions, whatever. They can vote against it. And then they can go back to their pro gun constituents and say. "We stood for gun owners on this, We stand up for the second amendment." Welcome to politics.
I disagree. you are giving up something and gaining nothing, only to be attacked again and again in the future as they've shown. one gun a month doesn't stop criminals, and you are getting nothing in return if you capitulate; virtually guaranteeing future attacks.
  #66  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:28 PM
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Nobody is capitulating here.

We are fighting as best we can.
  #67  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:47 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
We are fighting as best we can.
you mentioned [in reference to "minor bills"] giving fence sitters some sort of win to take home to the anti 2nd amendment folks in their districts. what are they giving you in return?
  #68  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:38 PM
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Something is happening in America on Monday Jan. 20th. In Virginia and in California and many places in between. It will not be a day of violence but a day in support of the 2nd Amendment. But if the Democrats decide to violate the Constitution, that could well lead to violence.

As much as we try to find a peaceful solution to the assault on the 2A by the Democratic Marxists...they appear determined to cause open civil war. That means each and every one of us has to prepare to surrender or fight. Many if not most of us are not trained for what will probably come...and now is the time to correct that defect in our nature. I suggest everyone find and view the 1958 movie "Battle for Algiers"...a French film about the Algerian revolt.

Sometimes fascism comes from the right, sometimes from the left...today in America it is the Democrats that are Fascists. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Soros and Bloomberg, the Governor of Virginia...all fascists. The French were the fascists in the battle of Algiers...and the movie documents how the Algerians fought back. Consider it as a training film for what we may very well find ourselves facing if the Governor of Virginia...and officials in other states, move against the 2nd Amendment. Study the film for what Algerians did and how they did it, against overwhelming military odds. This is what America may now be facing after decades of Democratic Marxist Fascism destroying our courts and our schools and our state and local governments.

People have never won nor maintained their freedom by asking for it from a tyrant. They have had to fight for it and claim it with the blood of their patriotism. Not a happy picture, but America has been here before. Now it is up to each of us to decide if we are willing to fight against tyranny if that is what history asks of us. If that is what it will take to keep America, America.

Last edited by johnireland; 01-14-2020 at 12:02 AM.
  #69  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:05 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Something is happening in America on Monday Jan. 20th. In Virginia and in California and many places in between. It will not be a day of violence but a day in support of the 2nd Amendment. But if the Democrats decide to violate the Constitution, that could well lead to violence.

As much as we try to find a peaceful solution to the assault on the 2A by the Democratic Marxists...they appear determined to cause open civil war. That means each and every one of us has to prepare to surrender or fight. Many if not most of us are not trained for what will probably come...and now is the time to correct that defect in our nature. I suggest everyone find and view the 1958 movie "Battle for Algiers"...a French film about the Algerian revolt.

Sometimes fascism comes from the right, sometimes from the left...today in America it is the Democrats that are Fascists. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Soros and Bloomberg, the Governor of Virginia...all fascists. The French were the fascists in the battle of Algiers...and the movie documents how the Algerians fought back. Consider it as a training film for what we may very well find ourselves facing if the Governor of Virginia...and officials in other states, move against the 2nd Amendment. Study the film for what Algerians did and how they did it, against overwhelming military odds. This is what America may now be facing after decades of Democratic Marxist Fascism destroying our courts and our schools and our state and local governments.

People have never won nor maintained their freedom by asking for it from a tyrant. They have had to fight for it and claim it with the blood of their patriotism. Not a happy picture, but America has been here before. Now it is up to each of us to decide if we are willing to fight against tyranny if that is what history asks of us. If that is what it will take to keep America, America.




This is why I berated the "plan" in the original thread. This has played out so many times before that it's obvious what is going to happen, we will be cut apart more and more until we are weak enough to be defeated since we are unwilling to remove the issue. If 20k armed people show up there is nothing the VA government can do to stop them......but that won't happen will it?
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  #70  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:16 AM
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  #71  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Sen. Dave Marsden, who supports Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg,
is an advocate of proposed gun control legislation and is part of the Democratic majority in the
Virginia General Assembly.

Instead of apologizing for the insensitive remarks, Marsden called Second Amendment supporters
"mentally ill" in a letter he sent following a meeting with constituents.

Mornings on the Mall host Mary Walter read part of Marsden's letter on-air and asked him to comment.
"Too many of your members and other 2A supporters appear to have mental health issues," Walter quoted.
"A significant number of these things were indicative of very unstable people, and this is worrisome," replied
Marsden. "The responses I was getting were from people who showed signs of having mental health difficulties."

We are becoming the old USSR.
They regularly used Psychiatric Hospitals to imprison people for years at a time and remove them from society.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
George Santayana, Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense,
Scribner's, 1905, page 284
And how is he qualified to diagnose mental illness (clearly he’s not-just believes anyone who doesn’t agree with him is mentally ill). They should charge him with trying to practice medicine without a license.
  #72  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:19 AM
Guyfromohio Guyfromohio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Sen. Dave Marsden, who supports Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg,
is an advocate of proposed gun control legislation and is part of the Democratic majority in the
Virginia General Assembly.

Instead of apologizing for the insensitive remarks, Marsden called Second Amendment supporters
"mentally ill" in a letter he sent following a meeting with constituents.

Mornings on the Mall host Mary Walter read part of Marsden's letter on-air and asked him to comment.
"Too many of your members and other 2A supporters appear to have mental health issues," Walter quoted.
"A significant number of these things were indicative of very unstable people, and this is worrisome," replied
Marsden. "The responses I was getting were from people who showed signs of having mental health difficulties."

We are becoming the old USSR.
They regularly used Psychiatric Hospitals to imprison people for years at a time and remove them from society.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
George Santayana, Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense,
Scribner's, 1905, page 284
This has always been my biggest problem.... who decides what is mentally unstable? Heck, our side has even made up a fun condition called “Trump Derangement Syndrome”. Are we seen as mentally ill because we are so obsessed with guns that we spend time on forums? Are we mentally ill because we are “excessively paranoid” of the government trampling our rights? Are we mentally ill because we “need” to have more than one firearm? Let’s face it....mental illness is still a subjective science. So even when “our side” talks about mental illness being the problem, I get chills. Red Flag laws are the key to tyranny. I’m sure a nut will be prevented from carrying out a tragedy here and there, but if the government has the legal means to disarm dissenters under the protection of a Red Flag, we have lost. Freedom is not safe. It isn’t meant to be.
  #73  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:02 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Bull. Only if you quit and give up.
I don't want to give up in any way, I just want to preemptively take this to it's logical conclusion before we can't have any hope of winning.
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  #74  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:07 AM
MichaelE MichaelE is offline
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Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
The "mental illness" diagnosis - from politicians, of course...
That's the pot calling the kettle black...
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  #75  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:10 AM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I don't want to give up in any way, I just want to preemptively take this to it's logical conclusion before we can't have any hope of winning.
The only way for Americans to NOT win, is to give up and give in. That's it. I don't blame the Commutards for the "laws" they pass. I do blame Americans that accept it and kneel and line up for the showers.
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