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  #1  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:09 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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History of Action shooting

There is a great deal of possible misinformation regarding the history of how USPSA and IDPA started in the United States.

Jeff Cooper, and others were doing a style of shooting which was originally called "Leather slap" in California. They were interested in speed and accuracy form the draw/holster using large caliber and full combat load ammo, as if in a self defense scenario. Ray Chapman (Missouri) promoted this style which helped to form the USPSA organization under IPSC. The governing body of USPSA (to my knowledge) is located in Sedro Wooley, WA.

USPSA started out as a sport that promoted speed and accuracy for mock self defense scenarios, using "major" caliber handguns....milder loads scored less, which were called "minor" loads, such as the 9mm (which Cooper did not like!) The sport was pretty much using the 1911 .45acp, and the use of technology to improve speed and accuracy was embraced as a positive thing by the BOD of USPSA. Rob Leatham and others started using the .38 super round, loaded to "major" velocities, and when Rob used a Bill Wilson compensator in .38super and won the Nationals two consecutive years, the equipment race started and continued until the handguns were no longer practical for street carry. Bill Wilson had a strong opinion about having practical guns for street carry, but the USPSA BOD did not change their rules at that time. Bill Wilson went on to help start the sport of IDPA and the rules were designed for practical carry (concealed) handguns, no compensators nor optics, and were definitely geared to not allowing options on guns that may offer a competitive advantage for the gun division. Each gun division was limited to the size and weight, and currently all guns must be able to fit inside an IDPA approved box (with the exception of revolvers). This helped to slow the equipment race, so most competitors could shoot what they would carry for self defense.

Once USPSA started losing members due to the cost of being competitive with a .38super race gun, the BOD opened up two separate gun divisions...the Open and Limited Division. Since that time, more divisions have opened up in USPSA to include Production, Single Stack, and Limited 10 gun divisions. USPSA shooting can now accomodate most any handgun to be shot in their sport.

Some will argue that IDPA promotes accuracy over speed compared to USPSA. The scoring system of IDPA does promote accuracy over speed, but that does not mean a USPSA shooter is not accurate. At the top tier of USPSA competitors, a USPSA Grand Master will be exceptionally fast and accurate in any action shooting discipline....they simply need to make accomodations for the rules.

I shot USPSA for a long time, and I would judge a stage on whether or not it was more important for speed, or whether to slow down for pure accuracy. As an example, an El President was a speed course, while long range shooting out to 50 yards may definitely require more accuracy than pure speed....however, having both speed and accuracy is ideal, but the balance required for the target distance and presentation determines how much sight alignment and speed is desired for a stage.

Last edited by richpetrone; 06-29-2011 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:22 AM
gunsablazin gunsablazin is offline
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Thanks, for the history lesson. I have shot both games over the years, and have had a great time doing so. I shoot mostly IDPA now because its closer to home. Either sport will make you a better shooter, and it's a lot more fun than standing in a lane blasting at one stationary target.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:29 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Action shooting

Quote:
it's a lot more fun than standing in a lane blasting at one stationary target.
+1! action shooting is fun, stationary standing and shooting is boring for me.....
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:30 PM
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The reason USPSA headquarters is in Western Washington is because the first USPSA President was a Seattle cop, and he said he'd be prez only if the club came to him. He was a member of my club in the '80s, before I started shooting competitively.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:04 PM
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He was a member of my club in the '80s, before I started shooting competitively.
..and he's a member of my club today -- Dave Stanford
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:48 AM
Robert Ripper Robert Ripper is offline
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History question.
I have heard the term leather slap used by old timers. Was this what the sport was called or a technique? Was it not Cooper who was father of "modern combat technique" or is that not correct?
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by richpetrone View Post
Since that time, more divisions have opened up in USPSA to include Production, Single Stack, and Limited 10 gun divisions.
Dont forget about Revolvers...

At one time in the mid 90s Limited pistols were called were called Tactical and for a while there was a "Carry" division.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:33 AM
gunsablazin gunsablazin is offline
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Yes, The "leather slap institute" was started by Jeff Cooper, Ray Chapman, Thell Reed, Elden Carl, and Jack Weaver. They were the original "Combat Masters" and the action sport they invented is where the "modern technique" of pistol shooting was developed. IPSC evolved out of their ideas on pistol shooting, the "Weaver Stance" Ray Chapman developed holsters designed for drawing faster etc. The sport continues to evolve, modern guns and techniques such as the isocales stance, thumbs forward grip, fiber optic sights etc. have made the current crop of competitive shooters the best ever, and we are still learning.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
Dont forget about Revolvers...

At one time in the mid 90s Limited pistols were called were called Tactical and for a while there was a "Carry" division.
I remember shooting a few matches while wearing a coat, circa 1997. Just before the USPSA side of our operation folded, we ordered some hundreds of award pins, and still have some stamped "1st PC" (Practical Carry), "2nd PC", etc. In the early/mid '90s there was an annual "Stock Gun" match in the Section, which was what we today would call Single Stack.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:35 PM
eerw eerw is offline
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Great history.

I know the first USPSA Limited Nationals was in 1993 and was held in Nevada.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:48 AM
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When did IPSC become USPSA?
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:13 AM
davidalyn davidalyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
When did IPSC become USPSA?
USPSA is the United States arm (section) of IPSC.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:12 AM
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Ahhhhhhh *lightbulb*

I'm from overseas so I'd only ever heard it referred to as IPSC there - thanks so much for clarifying
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Old 07-25-2011, 12:09 PM
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USPSA was formed in 1983.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:26 PM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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S&W Invitational

An 'experimental' Division called "Practical" was tested at these in the late '90s, with the PF set at 140, and some gear rules.


I shot the '98 S&W Invitational in this Division using one of my Witnesses I set up for 40 S&W (and I still have some of that match ammo on my shelf ).



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Old 07-28-2011, 12:57 AM
Ben B. Ben B. is offline
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Awww, how precious. "Practical shooting" was once kinda-sorta practical. They even had an experimental "Practical" division. What a zany concept!
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:54 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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precious little

Hey Ben B, do you compete?
Do you know anyone who competes?
Do you know any LE or military personnel who compete?
Do you know any active LE or active military folks who've been trained by competitors?

I do.



Somebody who sends people into harm's way must think USPSA competition is zany....



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Old 07-28-2011, 10:51 AM
Ben B. Ben B. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WESHOOT2
Hey Ben B, do you compete?
Why yes, I do.

USPSA: FY60903
IDPA: A30195
USPSA MD for EPS, Eugene, OR
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:54 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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so you know (www gmpsvt.com)

Great!
I assume that means you know good course design and the 'right' Division allows a competitor the option of practical shooting (vs "that all-gamey funny-gun nothing we'd ever do in real life" kind of competition shooting).

I respect anyone who has EVER been an MD.......




A33102



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Old 07-29-2011, 10:05 AM
Ben B. Ben B. is offline
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There you go, ASS U ME ing

What I know is that good course design is an opinion, similar to opinion on a woman's looks: everyone knows what ugly is but not so easy for "nice". My version of "a" good USPSA course is a big Comstock with 3-4 different ways to solve it, OR a fast run n gun field course OR a nice medium course with lots of technical shooting (low ports, swingers, simultaneous drop turners, etc) OR a tricky memory stage with orchestrated steps.

The possibility of a practical-tactical approach in IPSC course design has never crossed my mind. Which would be...using cover? That is why God and Bill Wilson made IDPA. The SS & Prod. divisions help some, but a G35 in a DOH with 5 mags on a CR belt still seems a bit....race-like.


Still liking an experimental Practical division in Practical shooting, ~25 years after it all started
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