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  #1  
Old 08-11-2020, 02:48 PM
chowellacsbd chowellacsbd is offline
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Thats embarrassing... Nighthawk Vice President went back for repair

.

Last edited by chowellacsbd; 08-11-2020 at 03:18 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:09 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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Originally Posted by chowellacsbd View Post
A little bummed but curious if anyone else had had any similar issues.

Purchased a nighthawk Vice President from a dealer that only had 5-10 rounds through it. Super accurate and great gun...

BUT...

time to field strip for the first time and I have to push the slide stop out with a glock tool. Yes it’s that tight. Once out the slide stop plunger and spring shoot out the front. Apparently, after communication with nighthawk, the plunger tube was out of spec and didn’t have the lip inside to capture the front most plunger and retain it.

The guns been with them since Friday of last week.

My concerns here are, how did something like that make it out the door on a $4k+ gun, someone had to have known about it since the only way to get the plunger and spring back in and around the slide stop was to use a price of delrin as to not marr the slide and frame since so much force was needed to get the plunger into the recess of the slide stop.

I ended up cutting a coil or two off the spring but the thumb safety is pretty weak and doesn’t require much force at all to deactivate it. Ended up shooting a match with my talon...but the really embarrassing part comes when someone asks why I didn’t bring the VP, and I tell them it’s been sent back...

Always keep a backup on hand I guess...

Hard to discern the purpose here.

Is it a real question to NH buyers? If so, why not place in the NH sub-forum? Where the question can be seen by NH owners.

If a real question, did you review threads in the NH sub-forum to see whether someone else had this experience?

Or is it simply to "bash" NH to the widest possible audience -- here in the "General" sub-forum -- without giving NH even a chance to review the asserted issue?

I'm not a NH owner, not a fan boy, nor any axe to grind. Just trying to understand what is the point you're making
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 08-11-2020 at 03:16 PM.
  #3  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:09 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by chowellacsbd View Post
A little bummed but curious if anyone else had had any similar issues.

Purchased a nighthawk Vice President from a dealer that only had 5-10 rounds through it. Super accurate and great gun...

BUT...

time to field strip for the first time and I have to push the slide stop out with a glock tool. Yes itís that tight. Once out the slide stop plunger and spring shoot out the front. Apparently, after communication with nighthawk, the plunger tube was out of spec and didnít have the lip inside to capture the front most plunger and retain it.

The guns been with them since Friday of last week.

My concerns here are, how did something like that make it out the door on a $4k+ gun, someone had to have known about it since the only way to get the plunger and spring back in and around the slide stop was to use a price of delrin as to not marr the slide and frame since so much force was needed to get the plunger into the recess of the slide stop.

I ended up cutting a coil or two off the spring but the thumb safety is pretty weak and doesnít require much force at all to deactivate it. Ended up shooting a match with my talon...but the really embarrassing part comes when someone asks why I didnít bring the VP, and I tell them itís been sent back...

Always keep a backup on hand I guess...
Nighthawk craftsmen are humans and do make mistakes although Iím sure that the statistics of bad things slipped through their quality control is low.

I know one dude who had a dud with his Nighthawk and the owner got involved to make sure that the gun is corrected to Nighthawk high standards.
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  #4  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:17 PM
chowellacsbd chowellacsbd is offline
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Wow. Really wrinkled the panties with a simple question

Post deleted. Iíll remain a lurker and keep my thoughts and questions to myself.
  #5  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:31 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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^^^^

With the above, recommend moderator deletion of thread as being in everyone's best interests.
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:32 PM
chowellacsbd chowellacsbd is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
^^^^



With the above, recommend moderator deletion of thread as being in everyone's best interests.


You mean in your best interests...
  #7  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:33 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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Originally Posted by chowellacsbd View Post
You mean in your best interests...
Well. O.k. leave it.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=139310.

If a sincere question, "no" I've not had such an experience with any top tier builder. I've found top tier builders to be very committed to keeping customers happy. When there is an issue, I've found them eager to correct it.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 08-11-2020 at 03:55 PM.
  #8  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:34 PM
Highway67 Highway67 is offline
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NO!!! Please express yourself and provide input...That's what this place is all about...
Flower Boy's panties are in a bunch most of the time...
  #9  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:36 PM
chowellacsbd chowellacsbd is offline
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Who cares actually??? Really?

I joined this forum to explore more about the 1911, express thoughts and gain knowledge. What Iíve been met with instantly has been far from friendly.

Iíll stick with the plastic gun forums. They treat people with a little more respect.

Jesus
  #10  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:37 PM
chowellacsbd chowellacsbd is offline
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Originally Posted by Highway67 View Post
NO!!! Please express yourself and provide input...That's what this place is all about...
Flower Boy's panties are in a bunch most of the time...

I wish I could man, but this seems to be the future of forums at least. Try to ask, respond or gain information, and your flamed. How many new young shooters are dealing with this crap...I bet none. Theyíve chosen different sports.
  #11  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:44 PM
Highway67 Highway67 is offline
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I wish I could man, but this seems to be the future of forums at least. Try to ask, respond or gain information, and your flamed. How many new young shooters are dealing with this crap...I bet none. Theyíve chosen different sports.
I know what you mean...This place used to be the best and friendliest gun forum that I frequented...There's still some folks that genuinely want to help, but it's spotty...Hope you get your NH back and it's better than you expected...they are very fine 1911s...
  #12  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:49 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Originally Posted by chowellacsbd View Post
Wow. Really wrinkled the panties with a simple question

Post deleted. Iíll remain a lurker and keep my thoughts and questions to myself.
No need to lurk if you're looking for help or advice. fnfalman pretty much stated what all manufacturers experience: an ocassional "ooppss". This forum welcomes folks trying to learn and gain experience, and there are very few that last here very long if they just post negative comments. We do have forum rules about just posting a complaint thread, but if you're looking for advice or suggestions on recommended actions, you're more than welcome to take part instead of just being a lurker. NHC is a reputable manufacturer that, according to reports I've seen, make solid attempts to make the customer happy.

Have you asked NHC what the schedule is for diagnosis/repair? Have they given you any response to that?
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:57 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
No need to lurk if you're looking for help or advice. fnfalman pretty much stated what all manufacturers experience: an ocassional "ooppss". This forum welcomes folks trying to learn and gain experience, and there are very few that last here very long if they just post negative comments. We do have forum rules about just posting a complaint thread, but if you're looking for advice or suggestions on recommended actions, you're more than welcome to take part instead of just being a lurker. NHC is a reputable manufacturer that, according to reports I've seen, make solid attempts to make the customer happy.

Have you asked NHC what the schedule is for diagnosis/repair? Have they given you any response to that?
+1911.

A better response than mine.

---

To the question part of the OP, "No" I've not had such an experience with any top tier builder. I've found top tier builders to be very committed to keeping customers happy. When issues do occur, the overwhelming experience shared by Forum members is that top tier builders (and some, perhaps many, not considered top tier) are eager to correct it. But you do need to contact them, give them a chance to review and correct, and that's almost always the recommended action. And it almost always works.

Reflecting further, sometimes I've read posts from those who believe top tier builders should never ship a pistol with a flaw...plunger tube or otherwise. While a laudable objective, absolute perfection -- no flaws of this or similar kind ever -- is something that no builder of any significant annual number of guns in history has ever achieved. Pistolsmiths, even the very best, are still human.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 08-11-2020 at 04:34 PM.
  #14  
Old 08-11-2020, 04:50 PM
chowellacsbd chowellacsbd is offline
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Originally Posted by Highway67 View Post
I know what you mean...This place used to be the best and friendliest gun forum that I frequented...There's still some folks that genuinely want to help, but it's spotty...Hope you get your NH back and it's better than you expected...they are very fine 1911s...


Thanks man
  #15  
Old 08-11-2020, 09:06 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Nighthawk craftsmen are humans and do make mistakes although Iím sure that the statistics of bad things slipped through their quality control is low.

I know one dude who had a dud with his Nighthawk and the owner got involved to make sure that the gun is corrected to Nighthawk high standards.
I get what you are saying but if you are spending $4k on a gun that is hand fitted then there is no excuse for something like that leaving the factory.

The one thing that cracks me up is that when a top tier gun has issues it is always "they are human" If a ruger has problems then we get 5 pages of ruger bashing. Why is that? Is it justification for spending a lot of money on a gun? Is it a sin to admit that the almighty wilson, brown, or whoever has put out some lemons?
  #16  
Old 08-11-2020, 09:28 PM
Miles42 Miles42 is offline
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at their price line I would be extremily disappointed
  #17  
Old 08-12-2020, 09:11 AM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is online now
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Just my thoughts, but quality issues in these "big little custom makers" seems to come with the higher volume of production they do. Recently, one of these makers was sent a gun back 3 or 4 times for the same issue, until they finally built an altogether new gun, which still didn't function properly. It's a disturbing thought to pay $3k or more for a "custom" gun and have production type quality issues. I would guess these kinds of issues are much less likely with the one man shops.
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:24 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Originally Posted by roaniecowpony View Post
Just my thoughts, but quality issues in these "big little custom makers" seems to come with the higher volume of production they do. Recently, one of these makers was sent a gun back 3 or 4 times for the same issue, until they finally built an altogether new gun, which still didn't function properly. It's a disturbing thought to pay $3k or more for a "custom" gun and have production type quality issues. I would guess these kinds of issues are much less likely with the one man shops.
Very true. More guns out the door means more $$ in their pocket. Hopefully they don't get like the high volume guys and turn out junk. Growth is good but not if it means cutting down on quality.

On the flip side how many would wait years for a gun like ordering a Randall knife?
  #19  
Old 08-12-2020, 11:34 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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Originally Posted by roaniecowpony View Post
.... I would guess these kinds of issues are much less likely with the one man shops.
Indeed.

The more workers (of any skill level) that are involved with a manufacturing process, the more likely it is for one to have an "off day" ...or perhaps not even being the right person for the job; which may take a little time for the shop manager (etc.) to figure out and then dismiss the individual. It's difficult to find a way of avoiding the latter situation...Human Resource managers in many industries have devoted great efforts towards ensuring everyone hired is truly"right" for the job...but no one has found a foolproof method.

Sometimes accountability and responsibilities can become diffused in a larger operation.

Usually, there are production/piecework volume standards... difficult to avoid in a larger shop. But volume standards and getting everything right often don't go hand in hand, especially if the worker's child, spouse might be seriously ill, etc.; or anything that adversely weighs on a person's focus.

Exactly as you've indicated, with a really small operation, with one-person being an absolute example, accountability and responsibility becomes really clear-cut. Every decision is in the hands of that builder, with no piecework volume standards to deal with. If too many errors are made, customer orders simply disappear and the customers quickly terminate the business. Usually, someone doesn't set up a one-person shop (which involves a lot of costs) unless they perceive themselves as very good...and exceptionally dedicated. And if that person knows that he's not at his best on a given day, he can choose set work aside, go at a slower pace, etc.... something that isn't so practicable in a larger shop.

In a larger shop, Quality Control can help, of course, but QC is not a "gold standard" means of minimizing issues with finished products. E.g., one of the most error-prone part of most manufacturing processes is the correction of previous errors/defects identified by QC.

If there were any serious recommendations, something that can realistically be acted upon, I think most top tier builders would be very receptive. Unfortunately, we don't see a lot of these. Downsizing to a very small shop where one person can closely oversee everything, every build, would likely have some effect, but it's not something that appeals to a business owner.

Knowing this, a customer can of course simply choose not to buy from a larger shop, going instead with a much smaller builder. That has advantages, but also some disadvantages.

Scubadad makes an excellent point about how "blame" is typically viewed between different price tiers. A subject unto itself, especially insomuch as there's not so much hand-fitting involved at lower price points. Instead, it often becomes a question of consistently of part quality, as the workers in lower cost shops are often merely performing an assembly task (with parts spec'd for "drop in" assembly). And the latter is not all bad, but it does cater to a different subset of customers with different expectations.

Indeed, one could plausibly argue that individual hand-fitting with oversized parts adds (rather than subtracts) opportunity for human error in comparison to simple "drop in" parts assembly. In any event, it is a different way of building guns, and at a detailed level the customer experiences can also differ.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 08-12-2020 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 08-12-2020, 03:44 PM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is online now
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In my career, from machinist to QC inspector, to Manufacturing Engineer, QA Engineer and later Certification Engineer, I worked in a lot of different places from very small to very large. The shops that had the most trouble with QC were the mid sized shops or "big little guys". They didn't have the depth of QA understanding nor want to make the investment in QA to be big but were big enough to have QA challenges which they struggled address.
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Old 08-12-2020, 03:55 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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Originally Posted by roaniecowpony View Post
In my career, from machinist to QC inspector, to Manufacturing Engineer, QA Engineer and later Certification Engineer, I worked in a lot of different places from very small to very large. The shops that had the most trouble with QC were the mid sized shops or "big little guys". They didn't have the depth of QA understanding nor want to make the investment in QA to be big but were big enough to have QA challenges which they struggled address.
Yes, this makes sense. Thanks for sharing. It matches my business experiences, albeit in a different job role. You were on the inside, and those are usually the people with the greatest perceptiveness.

Sometimes mid-sized shops also become almost obligated to provide training on the job ... with products going out to customers. Whereas larger shops may have better ways of getting a new employee up to speed/quality...or ferreting out those who need to find a different type of work.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 08-12-2020 at 04:00 PM.
  #22  
Old 08-12-2020, 04:53 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Not picking on Nighthawk, there are several similar scale operations with similar reports from time to time, but do these places really test fire their guns?
M. Ayoob said that S&W shot each M645 for 48 rounds; three magazines of hardball, one magazine each of whatever three hollow points they had on hand.
  #23  
Old 08-12-2020, 05:21 PM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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My Nighthawk works fine. Therefore, all Nighthawks work fine. Must be your imagination
  #24  
Old 08-13-2020, 06:27 AM
rbert0005 rbert0005 is offline
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You did say the gun was used, right?

Who knows what happened to it?

Bob
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  #25  
Old 08-13-2020, 05:57 PM
PRAINC PRAINC is offline
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At least NH will know exactly which 1 gunsmith to inquire in the shop.

Hopefully they will take good care of you (and the VP).
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