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  #76  
Old 08-12-2020, 06:45 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Top Cover -------------- Do you think that you and I are in disagreement? Because we are not.

I have repeatedly maintained, in this thread, that protesters (or anyone else) breaking the law should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The fires, bricks, Looting, murders etc that you list are UNLAWFUL and I have never ever ever ever said that they were constitutional acts.

Their speaking out IS constitutional. Even if it's baloney. I WILL tolerate people from all ends of the political spectrum publicly chanting whatever crap they want.


It's a free country so this comes with the package.

But the LAW needs to be enforced. So when a protester steps outta line by breaking a law, any law, I encourage a swift police response, as harsh as necessary to control the situation. If that means gas, dogs, fire hoses, heck even guns if needed, so be it.

Last edited by magazineman; 08-12-2020 at 06:48 PM.
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  #77  
Old 08-12-2020, 09:52 PM
dodjh dodjh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Antifa is a criminal organization, extremely violent, and create a clear and present danger. The homeowners had every right both legally and especially morally to keep them away from their families, their wives, and children. Anyone with at least a little self awareness should be able to figure this out..And yes, as someone posted above, if cops did their job in CO the HO's wouldn't have to. Good for the HO's, time to stop the BS.

AG Barr had a great interview with Mark Levin recently, really did well identifying who Antifa is and what a grave danger Antifa is to America, the Constitution, and our way of life including law and order...That is so true and great he spoke up...BUT, I do hope he is going to follow this with rounding up the Leader's on Rico-Charges or something as significant. Lots of Excellent-talk out of Barr on this and the Russian Witch Hunt, few results though so far.
What irritates the hell out of me is anybody burning our flag. When you get to that degree of action, you should be deported period, citizen or not.
TOO much Blood was spilled to defend it and if you don't understand that, you are an IDIOT!
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  #78  
Old 08-13-2020, 05:36 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by dodjh View Post
What irritates the hell out of me is anybody burning our flag. When you get to that degree of action, you should be deported period, citizen or not.
TOO much Blood was spilled to defend it and if you don't understand that, you are an IDIOT!
Agree about the flag certainly at least a fine...As a veteran coming from a family of many veterans over 2 generations, I have no tolerance for such things...Even worse because they have "Athlete-Pay-Privilege" are the A-holes in Pro-sports who take a knee. Too bad America is addicted to watching sports because anyone who loves our country and wants to honor those who served, and those who died for our freedoms, should stop watching these holes...Lately though with so many of these holes taking a knee, some honorable athletes are starting to go against the grain and are standing. Hopefully it will catch on.
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  #79  
Old 08-13-2020, 07:43 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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I have never seen on American Soil a punk burn our flag. I have no idea what I would do, but I think I would get involved in stopping it. I hope that I will be supported during and after.
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  #80  
Old 08-13-2020, 10:05 AM
TominMO TominMO is online now
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As much as it annoys me (retired military) to have to say this, I think burning the flag is a 1A right. No jail, no deportation, no fines. Yes they are stupid, are ignoramuses, etc. So you could well say that I served to preserve their freedom to be massive jerks! The Founders fully understood that free speech is specifically for speech you disagree with.

The last thing we want is a creeping encroachment on the 1A. That is what Leftist PC culture is, for example; peer pressure when legislation can't be passed. If we start the precedent that we can limit speech we don't like, the other side then has free rein to continue this when they get into power. It sux but that is the nature of our system, and it still beats any other system.

Donning Nomex suit now.....
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Last edited by TominMO; 08-13-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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  #81  
Old 08-13-2020, 10:14 AM
longarm longarm is online now
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Thing is.. we don't have a counterpart to this flag-burning. And book-burning, bible-burning, etc. So, how exactly does the message get across that we mildly disagree with the numpties lacking sense? Indeed, even if we had one - it would never get equal airtime, unless it was in the form of Hate-Crime/Violence nonsense.

I understand where you are coming from, but it's still Not Right nor Fair. I feel we should allow them to light themselves on fire in protest ;-)
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  #82  
Old 08-13-2020, 10:31 AM
TominMO TominMO is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longarm View Post
Thing is.. we don't have a counterpart to this flag-burning. And book-burning, bible-burning, etc. So, how exactly does the message get across that we mildly disagree with the numpties lacking sense? Indeed, even if we had one - it would never get equal airtime, unless it was in the form of Hate-Crime/Violence nonsense.

I understand where you are coming from, but
1. it's still Not Right nor Fair.
2. I feel we should allow them to light themselves on fire in protest ;-)
Agree with both points!
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  #83  
Old 08-13-2020, 11:28 AM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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What does our flag represent?

I think it primarily represents freedom. Yes, there's other components but the main promise our flag makes to us is freedom.

The freedom to agree, or to disagree, to hold your own beliefs--political or religious. To speak your mind, vote as you see fit, and to simply live and do as you wish as long as it does not harm others.

Actual, real & tangible freedom.

So if the government will jail it's own citizens over this, does the flag's promise still ring true?

Or is it ...................... hollow?

Personally I would never burn our flag. I still STRONGLY believe in it's promise and The Republic For Which It Stands.

But I'm not comfortable with the concept of jailing citizens for simply being highly offensive jerks.

Because being PC and unoffensive should not be required by law.
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  #84  
Old 08-13-2020, 11:58 AM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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If we jailed everyone who did at least one highly offensive act nearly all of us would be in it.
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  #85  
Old 08-13-2020, 12:26 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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It is Darwin's theory at work.

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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
If we jailed everyone who did at least one highly offensive act nearly all of us would be in it.
Only the stupid ones get caught.
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  #86  
Old 08-13-2020, 12:50 PM
BLikeYork BLikeYork is offline
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I don't understand how we determined these protesting people were communist?

I'm not very up to date on the seemingly endless meanings given to signs or code words and such of modern young trouble makers ... I remember when the gangs started using the blue or red hankies ...

alittle help?
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  #87  
Old 08-13-2020, 01:00 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by BLikeYork View Post
I don't understand how we determined these protesting people were communist?

I'm not very up to date on the seemingly endless meanings given to signs or code words and such of modern young trouble makers ... I remember when the gangs started using the blue or red hankies ...

alittle help?
Both BLM and Antifa are Marxist organization...Marx was the Granddaddy of the Communist ideology, so I suppose these two words are being used synonymous. I prefer the "M" word as I think it to be a little more accurate. In fact, several BLM leaders have said they are trained as Marxists and right now, their #1 priority is to get Trump out of office, black-lives mattering is a secondary consideration...Those are HER words paraphrased.

IOW, Blacks are just being used as "human shields"/tools to push the Marxist agenda.
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Last edited by combat auto; 08-13-2020 at 01:03 PM.
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  #88  
Old 08-13-2020, 01:02 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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More info

From History on line: "In 1848, Marx and fellow German thinker Friedrich Engels published “The Communist Manifesto,” which introduced their concept of socialism as a natural result of the conflicts inherent in the capitalist system."

In other words, what you own they want! Mob-rule!

But really, the mob is also used as a Tool, and eventually get ruled by a very few people, look at Russia and especially China, many even in the mob get exterminated when they are no longer useful, this comes a little later after the actual "revolution"...The socialistic "Utopia" never does actually come to fruition. Why, because there is no "free-lunch".

It turns out that although capitalism isn't perfect, if run fairly and legally, it will create economic freedom for the largest # of people. A compassionate-capitalist system is the most Noble political-economic system ever invented by man.

The Marxist in our country today though want that Free-Lunch...It is quite analogous to the barbarians at the gate of Rome which was the most wealthy empire at that time. They sacked Rome eventually, and the Marxist want to sack America for its wealth (that is just one part of it though). The Marxist wants total domination over your thoughts, actions, and speech, etc.
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Last edited by combat auto; 08-13-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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  #89  
Old 08-13-2020, 01:56 PM
borderboss1 borderboss1 is offline
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Originally Posted by dodjh View Post
What irritates the hell out of me is anybody burning our flag. When you get to that degree of action, you should be deported period, citizen or not.
TOO much Blood was spilled to defend it and if you don't understand that, you are an IDIOT!
I agree with you, but I have two reasons why I think these folks doing this (and burning bibles, which someone else said) isn't something I would want to stop:

1. It is protected speech.
2. I think it's such an anathema to the vast majority of people that it damages the cause of these a-holes, which I'm all for.
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  #90  
Old 08-13-2020, 03:42 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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If it sounds hypocritical, then so be it. I support the Bill of Rights, but I don't think any American should burn our flag. And any American that does so should be deported. I'm sick of yielding to these far-left A-holes. Burning the flag would never have been okay 75 years ago. Why has it become okay? Rioting and looting are not okay either. How about some freaking common sense.
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  #91  
Old 08-13-2020, 04:05 PM
covid-1911 covid-1911 is offline
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Other countries have strict laws against desecration of the their national flag. They only allow burning of enemy nation's flag as protected speech.
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  #92  
Old 08-13-2020, 04:23 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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Flag burning does not have to be considered free speech. The burning of the flag does not convey any intelligible rational idea. It justexpresses hate for your country. And if you hate your country, you’re not entitled to protections under it’s laws, how does that sound?
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  #93  
Old 08-13-2020, 06:06 PM
longarm longarm is online now
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Sounds fine to me. Deport 'em - I been asking for that for 30 years ;-)
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  #94  
Old 08-13-2020, 07:13 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is online now
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The diffinition of free speech has become perverted over time to include just about anything some one says it is. Remember some years back some whack job was saying a crucifix in a jar or uriine was free speech. I think the founding fathers in no way shape or form considered burning the flag free speech. My opinion. We have sat back and let the leftists pervert just about everything we hold dear including free speach. We lost the freedom of speach years ago, most people just don't know it.
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  #95  
Old 08-13-2020, 07:15 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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I don't think that there is a ton of thought behind the act of flag-burning.

I suspect people who have done this are not terribly bright & are craving negative attention. Which they get.

But, that said, I'm sure they ARE bright enough to understand that they CAN leave the US if they want to. So do they REALLY "hate" the US?

I don't think so. Because they stay.

Their point, I think, is that they want to improve the US and are unhappy with the way it is currently.

That sounds like what's actually going on. Whether whatever they want the country to be actually IS an improvement is another subject.

When I don't like the condition of my house I fix it. Moving is not my first option.
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  #96  
Old 08-13-2020, 07:17 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Did any of our forefathers or rebellious colonists desecrate the Union Jack?

Maybe. I think it's possible that some did.
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  #97  
Old 08-13-2020, 08:25 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Did any of our forefathers or rebellious colonists desecrate the Union Jack?

Maybe. I think it's possible that some did.
Yes, they were trying to leave that country.

For real, there were no Union Jacks for sale at walmart, all were accounted for and well defended. Our flag policy nowadays is lax.

A history lesson is in order

In ancient Rome, the legions followed the legion eagle. An Eagle made of iron on a pole. Each eagle was the legion’s totemic symbol, no eagle - no legion. The legion who lost their eagle was typically either massacred by the enemy and lost their eagle as a result or, if they somehow lost it and did not retrieve it, and if they managed to escape decimation for cowardice, they were disbanded to other legions.

One can count on the fingers of two hands the lost eagles between the founding of Rome and end of Claudian dynasty. The loss to Parthians by Crassus (these eagles were later recovered by Augustus) and the loss by Varus to the Germans (and the famous lamentation by Augustus “Varus, give me back my legions” are most famous.

Now I am getting to my point. Every now and again, when the outcome of combat was doubtful, the Roman legion commander or the tribune have been known to grab the eagle from the soldier who carried it and toss it either behind enemy line or over the enemy wall. At this point it was pretty clear what the entire legion had to do. Needless to say, at the peak of their military skill and discipline, Romans had no rival.

We know no instances of Romans desecrating the eagles and they had their own share of violent political disagreements.
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  #98  
Old 08-13-2020, 09:28 PM
borderboss1 borderboss1 is offline
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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Their point, I think, is that they want to improve the US and are unhappy with the way it is currently.

That sounds like what's actually going on. Whether whatever they want the country to be actually IS an improvement is another subject.

When I don't like the condition of my house I fix it. Moving is not my first option.
This is a spot-on point. They do want to change the country into something that it was never intended to be by the founding fathers. They actually want something that is the exact opposite of the freedoms we were founded on. They want a dictatorship. They may not call it that, but for all intents and purposes, that's exactly what it will be.

This is why we must stop them at all cost. And I do mean all cost. The civil war is upon us, and it will be a shooting war. No question about that.
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  #99  
Old 08-13-2020, 09:53 PM
longarm longarm is online now
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@15roundsof9

I want to sincerely thank you for using "decimation" properly. Seriously. It's rare. I liked it. Well done. ;-)
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  #100  
Old 08-13-2020, 10:03 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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@15roundsof9

I want to sincerely thank you for using "decimation" properly. Seriously. It's rare. I liked it. Well done. ;-)
My privilege to highlight relevant historic content 🙂

So yes, all for deporting flag burners on a leaky ship.
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